Is Josh Allen a Top 6 QB in the AFC?

[dave mcbride]

47 minutes ago, Nextmanup said:

Slightly off-topic, but has it been announced that Big Ben's surgery is "Tommy John Surgery" ???

 

That is a 2 year recovery, which probably means Big Ben has played his last game in the NFL.

 

That is deserving of its own thread.

 

This season is starting to shape up.  Miami and the Jets look like 4 automatic wins this year.  Pittsburgh is usually a strong competitor but that game is now going to be a LOT easier....

 

 

I agree with this.  I think we have just beaten a pair of 5 win teams.  Let's not get too ahead of ourselves.

 

 

It is Tommy John, but it's not a two year recovery. Didi Gregorious had it and missed 7.5 months. Same with Gleyber Torres. It's different for pitchers than everyone else, including QBs. And incidentally, Didi Gregorious throws harder than any QB (he clocks at 95).

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

1 minute ago, MR8 said:

 

Bills fans keep making this same mistake... stop comparing these Bills or this QB to the Bills and Bills QBs of the past... compare them to the rest of the NFL Today! That's what matters! 

 

Doesn't matter if he is the best we've had since Kelly, that's a VERY low bar.... We want him to be Good because he's good compared to the rest of the CURRENT MODERN NFL.

 

No problem.

 

Watched the condensed version of half the games played yesterday. Allen looks great so far! And is improving rapidly. 

 

Sorry if that is unsettling to those who prefer to be mired in negativity. 

[Thurman#1]

38 minutes ago, jletha said:

I have not seen that announced, only speculated. Its not really 2 years, more like 18 months tops. Either way thats true for baseball but that doesnt mean its true for football. Delhomme had the same thing and was fine much sooner than 2 years.

 

 

 

Yup. In baseball, position players often come back as soon as six months, and while pitchers take longer, throwing a football isn't as biomechanically difficult and wearing as throwing a baseball at 90 mph.

[DuckyBoys]

I think he's in the top 8 in the AFC  I wouldn't get any crazier than that  Still a long long way to go and I am a huge Allen homer.

[H2o]

49 minutes ago, Call_Of_Ktulu said:

We will need those two missed TD’s to beat the Patriots. I think we should play super aggressive in that game vs the Patriots. Go for 2 point conversions and air it out all game long.

The Giants may have shown a ***** in the armor yesterday in the 2nd half. Every time we lined up in those Spread formations they brought more rushers than the OL could handle. That's when we started struggling on offense, but Daboll kept running the same things until our last TD drive. You can bet BB took notice. We will have to be balanced against NE and win the TOP battle if we want to have any chance. To try and get into an up-tempo shootout with NE would be foolish. I want to see if the offense has an answer for that this week when we play Cincy because hopefully Daboll took notice as well. 

 

Seriously, it edited out c h i n k from c h i n k in the armor?

Edited September 16, 2019 by H2o

[MR8]

2 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

 

No problem.

 

Watched the condensed version of half the games played yesterday. Allen looks great so far! And is improving rapidly. 

 

Sorry if that is unsettling to those who prefer to be mired in negativity. 

 

 

[ColoradoBills]

Why do I have a feeling that Josh Allen doesn't care about lists.

[SoTier]

56 minutes ago, Buffalo Barbarian said:

 

Rivers hasnt looked good, baker is a punk and will implode, and watson has a way of coming up short.

 

 

 

This is simply nonsense. 

 

[John from Riverside]

1 hour ago, MR8 said:

What makes me sick is #1 and #5 on your list are the guys we passed on to get the picks to get Allen the following year... 

You continue to be sick

 

I think it fell perfectly for us and its TRE WHITE and Josh Allen sir

[MJS]

I'd put Allen 8th behind the following: Brady, Mahomes, Big Ben, Rivers, Watson, Carr, Mayfield.

 

That makes him average. But I do believe that he will be an elite, top 5 QB one day. And if he continues to have a strong year and makes the playoffs, he'll shoot up the rankings for everyone.

[947]

I don't think you can definitively say Mayfield is better than Allen at this point. He was certainly better as a rookie, but this a new year & Josh looks better so far. Tonight's game will tell us a lot.

[VW82]

1 hour ago, MR8 said:

What makes me sick is #1 and #5 on your list are the guys we passed on to get the picks to get Allen the following year... 

 

I get the frustration but I think this is flawed logic. McD was hired only a few months before the draft. Beane wasn't even brought in until later that year. What was McD supposed to do? Let Whaley pick his QB of the future on his way out the door? Pick a QB with virtually no deep dive knowledge of the QB class or even his own team?  

 

I will admit that it turned out to be insanely bad luck that two all pro QB talents happened to go mid first round in the year we had the opportunity to take one of them.  

 

The question we should be asking ourselves is did McBeane make the right decision trading two 2nds, a 3rd, and Cordy Glenn to move up to take Josh when we could have just stood pat and taken Lamar Jackson who looks like a comparable talent. That's the one to keep an eye on going forward, not killing our first time head coach for trading back and gathering futures so he could re-stock the cupboard once he had a better idea of what he was working with. 

Edited September 16, 2019 by VW82

[GG]

At first glance, I thought the topic was - Is Allen a top #6 QB in AFCE?

 

Wouldn't put it past the observers.

[row_33]

is this an insult if you aren't ranked 4 -6  and still able to throw a ball?

 

 

[Kenosha2Buffalo]

No

[Alphadawg7]

1 hour ago, elijah said:

Between Big Ben being out for the season and seeing someone on the board say that Josh Allen was a top 3 QB in the AFC, it got me thinking where does Josh rank in the AFC?  Being that six teams make the playoffs, being a top six quarterback is what is ringing important to me (in this moment, obviously you’ll want better as his career goes on). After ranking the quarterback’s, I find Josh sitting just outside of the top 6, and that’s even with a little Buffalo bias in ranking them.  

 

TIER ONE - Elite

1. Mahomes, 2. Brady

 

TIER TWO - Franchise Starters

3. Rivers, 4. Baker, 5. Watson

 

TIER THREE - Jury’s Out

6. Lamar, 7. Josh, 8. Dalton, 9. Carr, 10. Mariota, 11. Darnold, 12. Flacco

 

TIER FOUR - ???

13. Brissett, 14. Minshew, 15. Rudolph, 16. Rosen

 

You have Baker in the same tier as Watson and Rivers?  Based on what?  A solid year for a rookie? He looked bad week 1 and struggled in the preseason.

 

He has done nothing to put him into the same class as Rivers and Watson.  Baker is as unproven right now as Josh and Lamar, and both have had a better start to 2019 than Baker and with substantially less weapons around themselves.  And I am a big Baker believer too...but reality is reality, he’s got just as much to prove and is off to a worse start than Lamar and Josh at proving it.  Baker definitely had the better rookie year, but rookie years don’t matter, it’s how you grow and so far in the tiny sample size, Lamar and Josh have looked better.

 

Watson has a case for tier 1, but don’t have an issue with him being tier 2 with Rivers. 

 

Baker belongs in tier 3 until he proves more on the field.

 

But to answer your question, yes I think Allen has a case for the 6th spot right now and would rank them this way:

 

1.  Brady - Mahomes will be the sexy pick, but until someone beats Brady or he starts to really fall off then I won’t move him down.

2.  Mahomes - I mean really could be number 1 too, but I feel like Brady’s experience at the highest levels still gives him the meaningless top spot.

3.  Watson

4.  Rivers

5.  Lamar - He helped Ravens make playoffs and he’s started this season out great.  

6.  Josh Allen - I am putting him ahead of Baker because I have liked what I have seen of Allen more this offseason and first 2 weeks.  To be fair, Baker hasnt played this week yet and could make a case to be 6th tonight, but it’s splitting hairs right now for the 6th spot anyway.  

7.  Baker - See notes above.  

 

 

Edited September 16, 2019 by Alphadawg7

[Reed83HOF]

1 hour ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

 

Josh has the potential to be better than Watson, and Mahomes well.... Bills missed him but so did a third of the league. 

 

Write off to bad fortune and a lame duck GM.  

 

 

Better than Mahomes?

 

[Yav]

2 hours ago, elijah said:

Between Big Ben being out for the season and seeing someone on the board say that Josh Allen was a top 3 QB in the AFC, it got me thinking where does Josh rank in the AFC?  Being that six teams make the playoffs, being a top six quarterback is what is ringing important to me (in this moment, obviously you’ll want better as his career goes on). After ranking the quarterback’s, I find Josh sitting just outside of the top 6, and that’s even with a little Buffalo bias in ranking them.  

 

TIER ONE - Elite

1. Mahomes, 2. Brady

 

TIER TWO - Franchise Starters

3. Rivers, 4. Baker, 5. Watson

 

TIER THREE - Jury’s Out

6. Lamar, 7. Josh, 8. Dalton, 9. Carr, 10. Mariota, 11. Darnold, 12. Flacco

 

TIER FOUR - ???

13. Brissett, 14. Minshew, 15. Rudolph, 16. Rosen

 

The five in the top two tiers are undeniably better than Josh Allen right now.  As per the year’s end, who knows, a poor year from Baker and Watson and real progression from Josh could slide him ahead of them two.  But to call him a top five quarterback in the AFC isn’t much more than crazy talk right now. 

 

But the real question, is it reasonable to rank Josh above the quarterback’s that I have him above? Would you put him above Lamar Jackson?  There’s arguments to be made to put Derek Carr and Andy Dalton above Josh Allen, but with his first two performances this year Josh is making himself a case. 

 

While he’s not making pin-point, Drew Brees level throws, Josh has taken a major step forward in his passing game and that shouldn’t be debated.  There’s some off-target throws like the deep pass to Brown and the across endzone throw to Zay Jones, but there’s also incredible throws like the two dimes that he made on the run.  He had a rough game against the Jets with his turnovers, but I’ve albeit attributed that too bad ball luck. He was leading drives in those games and he was throwing with much improved short accuracy.  The balls aren’t perfect, but he’s doing a great job of putting them within the receivers catch radius and at the end of the day that’s all you need to do. 

 

It goes much much further than that too.  One thing that he’s had since returning from the injury last year is his composure and control of the game.  He’s been a baller if nothing else. He goes into the game determined to win and often times it seems he’s playing his best ball in the fourth quarter.  Then you’ve got to consider the fact that the athleticism too his game no longer seems to be sporadic. Last year Allen would run too early against the pressure or just look too run before keeping his eyes downfield.  This year it really seems like he’s taken care of his athleticism and is only running when necessary. His pocket movement has been phenomenal, and he has kept his eyes downfield looking to make plays. The checkdowns are a huge improvement from last year.  I find myself murmuring good play under my breath multiple times a game when no one’s open and Josh simply throws it out of bounds or at his receivers feet instead of making a bonehead decision - which he still does by the way, the ill-fated passes are still a part of his game even though he is making progress. 

 

With the upgrade in talent around Allen and his progression, I think by the end of the year you may be able to easily call him a top six quarterback in the AFC, but where do you have him at right now?

How is Rivers TIER TWO? he does more with less every single year.

Rivers is TIER ONE and Brady (as much as we all hate him, is the the unquestionably #1 QB in the entire NFL).

[CSBill]

Not sure you can put Baker Mayfield as a Tier 2?

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

19 minutes ago, Reed83HOF said:

Better than Mahomes?

 

 

I edited ... meant potential to be better than Watson. 

 

Oh and as for Mahomes.. yeah it’s an unfortunate miss.