TigerJ Posted September 16, 2019 Posted September 16, 2019 That's difficult to do. What I think is that the Ravens did a brilliant job of matching a QB's skill set to an offensive coordinator. Lamar Jackson is the perfect QB for Greg Roman's offensive system and vice versa. If it wasn't a strategic decision, John Harbaugh might just be the luckiest head coach in the league. I don't think Cleveland''s loss to open the season is any kind of indication that Baker Mayfield isn't going to be really good. I am also becoming more and more convinced that Josh Allen has what it takes to be a really good starting NFL QB. Mason Rudolph and Josh Rosen get incompletes at this point in time. Josh Rosen is as unlucky as Lamar Jackson is lucky. Jackson landed with a solid team and is now with the perfect OC for his skill set while Josh Rosen went from one train wreck to another.. That's not his fault. Mason Rudolph went to a good situation in Pittsburgh, with time to sit and learn behind one of the great QBs in the league. Now he's got 14 games to prove he can play and start in the league.
ghostwriter Posted September 16, 2019 Author Posted September 16, 2019 19 minutes ago, Real McCoy said: It's not a love affair when a rookie takes your team to the playoffs last year and came damn near close to beating the Chargers in the playoffs. Then opens up the season with such strong performances. The dude has a 8-1 record, he just wins games. He's basically the QB Tyrod wishes he could become someday. Now, now. Remember one thing, my friend. Lamar went to a team where a winning culture was established already. The other QBs went to teams who were not stablished yet. Not saying Lamar is bad but he walked into a golden atmosphere.
billspro Posted September 16, 2019 Posted September 16, 2019 1 hour ago, Sunshower said: I am going to cautiously say that you are right. I wouldn’t trade Allen for Mayfield even and he was ranked pretty much unilaterally as everyone’s top QB. Why would I say this? Well because twice yesterday I witnessed Allen sprint full speed to his right and throw two darts on the move, right on the money for 20 yards. The wow factor is off the charts and unbelievable with this guy. I am super biased but from a sheer entertainment value, Allen is one of the most entertaining players in the NFL. The way he plays is just fun. When you sprinkle in Singletary it certainly makes Sundays for us Bills fans enjoyable. Your assessment of Lamar may be accurate, may not be. Personally I’m going to shove my foot in my mouth before I say another bad thing about him. He made his arrival known twice so far this year as a passer. I think I uh done did it when I said he’d be a bust. In closing, Lamar and Baker have both had F U arrival games in their careers. Just an undeniable F U to the league that they are dominant NFL QBs. Allen has had many, many, many plays like that but we’ve yet to see an entire domination over the course of an entire game, so with that said I have to rank him #3 right now (objectively), but it would not shock me even a tiny bit if he turns into the top dog alpha QB of the 2018 class, it’s entirely possible. I wouldn’t trade him for any player in the NFL. Lamar has looked exceptional so far. I don’t think he has even faced a top 20 defence yet in his career. I expected him to feast on bottom half defences because of his exceptional running ability. I’m interested to see how he does against better defences. So far his passing has far exceeded expectations this year.
GunnerBill Posted September 16, 2019 Posted September 16, 2019 I had them: 1. Rosen 2. Darnold 3. Mayfield 4. Rudolph 5. Jackson 6. Allen If you had to rank them based on what they have done on the NFL field right now then you would rank them: 1. Mayfield 2. Jackson 3. Allen 4. Darnold 5. Rosen 6. Rudolph (just on lack of opportunity) If I had to rank on how likely I think they are to be NFL franchise QBs projecting moving forward: 1. Allen 2. Mayfield 3. Darnold 4. Rudolph 5. Jackson 6. Rosen (though I absolutely do not think this is his fault) 1
Rob's House Posted September 16, 2019 Posted September 16, 2019 As of right now LamaRG3 is the man. Still early though. Allen may prove to be the prize when it's all said and done. This many games into his career the original RG3 was the man. 1
Real McClappy Posted September 16, 2019 Posted September 16, 2019 27 minutes ago, Sunshower said: Now, now. Remember one thing, my friend. Lamar went to a team where a winning culture was established already. The other QBs went to teams who were not stablished yet. Not saying Lamar is bad but he walked into a golden atmosphere. Jackson was bashed by several posters on this board and by media just like Allen was pre-draft. I'm just glad both are making the so called "experts" look like fools now. Your def right about a winning culture over there in Balt. it's took some big balls to move on from Flacco for a Rookie.
Doc Brown Posted September 16, 2019 Posted September 16, 2019 Give me them in this order long term. Jackson's had a great start to the year but a small framed scrambling quarterback long term usually doesn't work out in the NFL. RG3 and Kaepernick come to mind. Baker Allen Darnold Lamar Rosen 1
ghostwriter Posted September 16, 2019 Author Posted September 16, 2019 12 minutes ago, Real McCoy said: Jackson was bashed by several posters on this board and by media just like Allen was pre-draft. I'm just glad both are making the so called "experts" look like fools now. Your def right about a winning culture over there in Balt. it's took some big balls to move on from Flacco for a Rookie. No doubt, no doubt.
Ethan in Cleveland Posted September 16, 2019 Posted September 16, 2019 As of today based on two seasons of performance: Mayfield Jackson Allen Darnold Rosen By this time next year: Allen Jackson Mayfield Rosen Darnold I've never been a Darnold fan. And Rosen was my #2 after Allen. I think Rosen will put up some decent stats the rest of the season, even if much of it is garbage time.
thebandit27 Posted September 16, 2019 Posted September 16, 2019 49 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: I had them: 1. Rosen 2. Darnold 3. Mayfield 4. Rudolph 5. Jackson 6. Allen If you had to rank them based on what they have done on the NFL field right now then you would rank them: 1. Mayfield 2. Jackson 3. Allen 4. Darnold 5. Rosen 6. Rudolph (just on lack of opportunity) If I had to rank on how likely I think they are to be NFL franchise QBs projecting moving forward: 1. Allen 2. Mayfield 3. Darnold 4. Rudolph 5. Jackson 6. Rosen (though I absolutely do not think this is his fault) Wow. Knowing your history, and seeing this post, I am shocked that you're this high on Allen this soon! Any homerism in there, or just straight analysis? Asking because it's so darn difficult to get that far away from a draft grade that I've worked up over months, but I've had to do it before (thinking specifically of Dak), so I'm curious as to how you deal with that?
Alphadawg7 Posted September 16, 2019 Posted September 16, 2019 IMO...rookie year doesn't mean much to the long term play. A guy can start hot and fizzle as the league figures him out, or a guy can be more raw and really hit his stride in years 2 or 3 instead. If I was to treat the ranking like a weekly stock exchange, Baker falls to #3 IMO because the most recent body of work was that much worse than Lamar and Allen...and I am a Fan of Baker and have been since last years CFB season when people kept telling me he wont go any higher than the 2nd round at best. But Baker had a rough preseason, albeit thats not really a fair barometer, but still has to be noted considering his week 1 game was more of what we saw from him in his last preseason game. Meanwhile, Allen and Lamar have really shown some great progress compared to last year. I would rank them this way on a scale that can adjust and change weekly as the season goes on... Honestly, I don't think a lot separates the top 3 right now...they are very close IMO in how to be ranked, and one could argue in order of the 3. Here is how I would do it if this was a weekly stock exchange kind of accounting: 1 - Lamar: Lead your team to the playoffs as a rookie, be raved about all offseason, and then start the first 2 weeks off this way earns a guy the top spot. Doesn't matter if someone doesn't believe he can hold it long term, right now, he's been the best QB of the group thus far this year and helped get his team to the playoffs last year. 2 - Allen: A very close 2nd to Lamar, and I suspect as the season plays on that Lamar will come back a little from where he has been at against 2 terrible defenses and Allen will continue to get stronger from where he is at right now. 3 - Baker: Unfair to do this ranking before his 2nd game, but until we see him again, he cant be ranked higher than Lamar or Allen right now who have been impressive thus far. Baker has a good night tonight, he makes a case for the top 2 again. 4 - Darnold: Kind of gets this spot be default IMO, and we won't know what to make of him until he gets over Mono now. 5 - Rudolph: Going to get to see what he can do now, but he has showed some potential. 6 - Rosen: I think its pretty clear why he is below everyone else...he was always the wrong Josh. 1
DCOrange Posted September 16, 2019 Posted September 16, 2019 3 hours ago, MJS said: What was your ranking of Jackson before the season? After two games against two of the worst teams in the NFL you are willing to vault him to the top of the list? Jackson was IMO the 2nd best QB prospect to come along since Andrew Luck. My rankings haven't changed since the start of the season besides maybe bumping Darnold down out of a tie with Allen for #3. 1
Reed83HOF Posted September 16, 2019 Posted September 16, 2019 3 hours ago, BuffaloHokie13 said: I put some of this year on Roman. What will be telling is how he handles progressing in the offense. That is where Kaep and Tyrod, to a lesser extent, failed. Roman will keep progressing the scheme and playbook and the limiting factor will eventually be what Lamar can realistically handle. Overall, this is way too early, but I will play along... I was a Rosen guy all the way through and I was wrong on Allen. Rosen still has a shot, but he has been on 2 lousy teams, with lousy OL and lousy OCs - I feel bad for him because I still think he could be successful. Baker was a tad too cocky for my likes and a tad short (I know, I know). Lamar is electric with the ball in his hands as I think everyone has seen. I know what Roman is capable of doing as an OC from his previous QBs with somewhat similar skill sets, for me let's see what he does once he is forced to be solely a QB, just as Kaep and TT were forced to. When he has to stay in the pocket and make the correct readsand get the ball to that guy, that is when his book will be written. Is this truly the combination of the Roman shine and his current skillset vs. him just being that damn good; my $$ is on the former at this point.
Billsatlastin2018 Posted September 17, 2019 Posted September 17, 2019 At this juncture... 1. Jackson Below... 2. Mayfield Further below... 3. Allen significantly below... 4. Darnold TRASH! 5. Rudolph 6. Rosen
RocCityRoller Posted September 17, 2019 Posted September 17, 2019 Pre Draft: 1) Mayfield - moxy, swagger, live arm. Walk on to Heisman. 2) Rudolph - looked like an NFL QB leading a very dangerous college offense, some physical limitations (yep I had Rudolph #2) 3) Darnold - same as above but with a lot more turnovers and no physical limits as a pure passer 4) Allen - highest ceiling, highest risk, sub par competition (reminded me of JP Losman) 5) Rosen - I wrote blistering attacks about him. Talented in the right situation, me first, not a team guy, injury prone 6) Jackson - best athlete of the bunch, worst QB from an NFL perspective 7) Lauletta As of today: 1) Mayfield - had a very strong rookie season and laid a turd in week 1. He will feast on the Jets. Still feel the same about him 2) Allen/ Jackson - have done the work in the offseason and have taken advantage of soft schedules, their athleticism, and they both have OCs helping bring out the best in them. This tie will be broken when the schedules get harder and defenses see more film on the offenses they are running. 3) Darnold - good QB, bad situation DNQ) Rosen and Rudolph - Rosen and Allen both had garbage at OL and WR in year 1. Still not looking good for Rosen. Rudolph has 14 games to show what he has on a still talented Steelers team, though the run game may be bad without Conner. Will know more about both after the season. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.
BisonMan Posted September 17, 2019 Posted September 17, 2019 I take the long view on these players. A few games or a rookie season doesn’t tell you much. Based on personal makeup, physical skills, intelligence and coaching, my list goes like this: 1. Allen - the dude is off-the-charts physically for a QB and can make all the throws. He will have a perpetual chip on his shoulders after every college passed on him his Freshman year and all but one did the second time around. All the doubters pre-draft just added fuel to his fire. He’s obviously very smart and has a stable regime behind him. I hope Dabol doesn’t get a HC gig in the next few years. 2. Mayfield - moxie with physical talent to throw accurately. He’s a bit more limited than Allen and makes a lot of throws out of arrogance, leading to picks. He could end up a star, ala, Favre but could end up like Jeff George. 3. Darnold - solid starter with above average skills across the board. Appears pretty smart and capable of reeling in his poor tendencies. Coaching upheaval could derail his career early along with the NYC spotlight. He might end up above Mayfield on my list. 4. Jackson - To me, he’s Kaepernick 2.0. The SF offense under Roman took similar advantage of the physical tools, especially running. He’s refined those aspects of his offense but, ultimately, these types of systems get QBs injured. Kaepernick was more sturdy than Jackson so I doubt Jackson will last as long. Of course, Kaepernick almost won a SB with a Harbaugh coaching him! 5. Rosen - I think he’s very smart but lacks the fire and commitment to be a leader of a team. Jay Cutler without the physical skills. Rosen will make less mistakes given a decent line and WR corp. His physical skills will betray him down the line along with his waning interest in putting his body on the line week after week. His best outcome at this point will be a trade from Miami to be a backup behind an aging veteran where he an learn...and heal.
H2o Posted September 17, 2019 Posted September 17, 2019 Right now I got it like this: 1. Mayfield 2. Allen 3. Jackson 4. Darnold 5. Rudolph 6. Rosen Mayfield is still the top QB right now imo. People just love to hate the guy for some reason. Had an excellent rookie year and can make every throw. Allen has made a nice 2nd year leap thus far, shown vast improvement behind a stabilized OL, and has already proven himself clutch. Still not sold on Jackson even though he's had a couple of good weeks throwing the ball, but right now he's looking better than Darnold. I want to see him against better teams with more on the line before I take a bite of the crow. Can he throw the ball against a legit defense when it matters? Roman knows how to get the most out of these types and LJ is the best overall athlete he's had to work with out of Smith, Kaep, and Tyrod. Right now his trajectory is on the way up. I thought before the draft that Darnold was another over-hyped USC QB and I still feel that way. When he's under pressure he rattles and becomes as inaccurate as a backup not named Barkley. Rudolph in his action last week already looked better than Rosen through all of the time he's played. Rosen, man what happened. He still has time and he has all of the physical tools. I wonder if he ends up like Trent Edwards or David Carr due to the beating he has taken already. Starting for Miami is not going to help him physically or his psyche either.
formerlyofCtown Posted September 17, 2019 Posted September 17, 2019 8 hours ago, Sunshower said: I think as of now it’d look like: 1. Baker 2. Lamar 3. Allen 4. Darnold 5. Rudolph 6. Rosen Obviously I think this has shaped out to be a pretty darn good group of QBs. I think Allen could potentially be the best QB of that class but I never expected Lamar to be so good, what a shocker! I had to put him #2 but he could simply be hot water, who knows? Baker Allen Lamar Rudolph Darnold Rosen Pre-draft Baker Allen Rudolph Lamar Other 2 not on my board.
formerlyofCtown Posted September 17, 2019 Posted September 17, 2019 1 hour ago, Billsatlastin2018 said: At this juncture... 1. Jackson Below... 2. Mayfield Further below... 3. Allen significantly below... 4. Darnold TRASH! 5. Rudolph 6. Rosen Rudolph didnt look like trash yesterday. What are you basing your analysis on.
VW82 Posted September 17, 2019 Posted September 17, 2019 (edited) Not sure how I'd rank Allen, Jackson, and Darnold at this stage as they're all pretty close but I do think Baker is way ahead. He has the biggest floor and ceiling of those four. Downgrading him based on one lackluster half of preseason (he was reportedly great in camp and had a perfect QB rating in the only other preseason game he played in) and one regular season game after putting up 4000+ yards and 28 TDs as a rookie with little to no help on offense and with one of the worst coaching situations in recent memory...that just doesn't make any sense. Baker is a stud. I fully expect the Browns to make the playoffs and wouldn't be surprised to see him make the pro bowl this year. Allen looks like a stud too but he still has a ways to go. Edited September 17, 2019 by VW82
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