BigBuff423 Posted September 16, 2019 Posted September 16, 2019 Sometimes, we fans are our own worst enemies...to the folks saying that "you can't have it both ways" when referring to the meh percentage completion to what would be an acceptable NFL level completion rate. It was never that 52% didn't matter, or that last year his accuracy was not where anyone on this board wanted it to be - it's that everything happens in context. His poor completion percentage in college has been covered ad nauseum on this board and elsewhere, but obviously the Offensive line in college and then the level of receivers capable of catching his passes played a role. He was raw (still is in many ways) and last year, I don't know a SINGLE person that was a Bills fan or media professional that thought the receivers they had last year was anything worth calling a starting caliber set of WRs. Zay was in his second year, Benjamin was a joke and bust, and Foster came out of nowhere to be Allen's best target mainly because of his speed and separation. Add to the total disarray of the Bills' Offensive Line with two unforeseen retirements and a GM dead-locked committed to fixing the Cap mess, and you have a recipe for utter disaster. Given all of the above, it is AMAZING to me that Allen took the strides he took at the end of last season. His final four games were a sight to behold as we watched this raw, young Rookie begin to take leaps forward. Now, this year committed money and assets to the line and to the WR position, as well as a TE we've not yet seen in Kroft, plus a young RB and you have real growth from Josh Allen. You can see his maturity as he scans the field, you can see putting more touch on the ball, you can see him making reads - and you can see him getting protection from his line while getting separation in his receivers all of which lead to his completion percentage going up. The argument from many folks was that no matter how good the circle of receivers you put around him, no matter how well you protect him, he just didn't have the tools to be an NFL accurate QB. It's only two games, so while I'm not ready to say he's definitively answered his detractors permanently, I think we can see how the things most of us saw he needed is making a difference. As well as his work ethic and dedication to take coaching seriously and make the adjustments and changes. We'll see how the rest of the season goes, but I said it last week: their first half of football last week will be the Offense's worst half in terms of mistakes and poor production. Offensive line chemistry and game speed with receivers takes a little time. I think the Offense keeps getting better for a few more games. JMO 2 2 3
GunnerBill Posted September 16, 2019 Posted September 16, 2019 1 hour ago, thebandit27 said: They scored a TD on that drive. So, no. Yep and on the drive where he was a bit high on the McKenzie pass (were they the same drive of successive ones?) anyway... neither ended up taking points off the board.
Doc Posted September 16, 2019 Posted September 16, 2019 6 hours ago, WideNine said: We can all bend the truth... a bit......can't we? 4 TOVs by Allen with no qualifying info? - I will put one of those squarely on Allen and 3 as bad bounces and execution around him (1 ball popped up by Beasley, 1 ball tipped at line directly to defender, 1 Tackle cleanly beat and ball stripped from behind). The "strip sack" you mention today was Allen clearly in the grasp (they almost ripped his jersey off), a very, very slow whistle, and a Giants defender that while down on the ground brought his foot up to kick at Allen and ended up kicking the ball out. But a "should have been strip sack" of a reckless Allen supports a better negative narrative right? Agree on the turnovers being mostly bad luck except for the strip sack. As for the the sack yesterday, I'm pretty sure that even if the whistle hadn't blown, the fumble wouldn't have counted anyway since you cannot kick the ball (out). 6 hours ago, GreggTX said: His accuracy is much better, but don't kid yourself. It's still an issue. Accuracy is always an issue and Allen's accuracy is now pretty average. He was awful under pressure in week 1, which is another big issue, but to his credit, he cleaned a lot of that up in week 2. Most posters are overrating him now. That Giants game was his best game to date, however, so there is some cause for optimism. Have you watched other games around the league? QB's are missing what should be routine throws all the time. 2 2
CincyBillsFan Posted September 16, 2019 Posted September 16, 2019 6 hours ago, GreggTX said: His accuracy is much better, but don't kid yourself. It's still an issue. Accuracy is always an issue and Allen's accuracy is now pretty average. He was awful under pressure in week 1, which is another big issue, but to his credit, he cleaned a lot of that up in week 2. Most posters are overrating him now. That Giants game was his best game to date, however, so there is some cause for optimism. I could have sworn Allen "cleaned it up" in the 4th quarter last week. You know the quarter where he was on fire leading the Bills to two 80+ yard TD drives to win the game! Details & context matter.
thebandit27 Posted September 16, 2019 Posted September 16, 2019 11 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: Yep and on the drive where he was a bit high on the McKenzie pass (were they the same drive of successive ones?) anyway... neither ended up taking points off the board. I actually thought that the McKenzie ball was perfect...McKenzie just stopped and leapt one step sooner than he needed to IMO. If he ran that out, I think he may have scored there, but again, that's probably my favorite thing about Allen yesterday: - Overthrow John Brown for a TD? No problem, put together a long drive and score - The McKenzie play? No problem, put together a long drive and score - Brilliant QB draw play results in an easy 12-yard gain, but gets called back on a questionable holding call? No problem, put together a long drive and score - Offense stalls for a quarter because of a few missed opportunities, and the game becomes a one-score affair? No problem, put together a long drive and score 6 2
CincyBillsFan Posted September 16, 2019 Posted September 16, 2019 8 hours ago, MDH said: So wait, is completion percentage important now? When Allen is 52% it doesn’t matter but if he’s 64% it’s suddenly an important stat? Can’t have it both ways. Context is everything. 1
WhitewalkerInPhilly Posted September 16, 2019 Posted September 16, 2019 I'm glad you included the Y/A at the start, because I think that needs to be included in every conversation when it comes to QB accuracy. Darnold hit 68% last week, throwing slightly more passes than Josh, and yet was a full 70 something yards under Allen's total. There is also a purpose to deep throws, even if they are near misses. A deep pass shows that you can stretch the field, and forces the safety to play a bit deeper, preventing the defense from swarming the middle of the field and opening up those 10-15 yard passes that Allen consistently made in the first half. 2
CincyBillsFan Posted September 16, 2019 Posted September 16, 2019 3 hours ago, Bevis said: I grew up with Bills fans who hated Kelly, while playing in super bowls. They were right in saying he'd never win one. My goodness this is the very definition of DEPRESSED! I would love to see the Bills go to 4 straight Super Bowl games again before I die. Hell going to another SB would be awesome. And even if they lose every one I'm laying in my coffin with a smile on my face.
GunnerBill Posted September 16, 2019 Posted September 16, 2019 6 minutes ago, thebandit27 said: I actually thought that the McKenzie ball was perfect...McKenzie just stopped and leapt one step sooner than he needed to IMO. If he ran that out, I think he may have scored there, but again, that's probably my favorite thing about Allen yesterday: - Overthrow John Brown for a TD? No problem, put together a long drive and score - The McKenzie play? No problem, put together a long drive and score - Brilliant QB draw play results in an easy 12-yard gain, but gets called back on a questionable holding call? No problem, put together a long drive and score - Offense stalls for a quarter because of a few missed opportunities, and the game becomes a one-score affair? No problem, put together a long drive and score Hmm I thought the pass was high. But regardless... you are right. They overcame thigns that in far too many Bills seasons would have been drive killers.
CincyBillsFan Posted September 16, 2019 Posted September 16, 2019 It appears that Allen is now working under the new "perfection" criteria where QB's are judged harshly if EVERY throw isn't perfect. I need to know where the hell this insanity come from? It sure didn't come from watching the NFL. 3
Bevis Posted September 16, 2019 Posted September 16, 2019 3 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said: My goodness this is the very definition of DEPRESSED! I would love to see the Bills go to 4 straight Super Bowl games again before I die. Hell going to another SB would be awesome. And even if they lose every one I'm laying in my coffin with a smile on my face. That is very strange tbh. It's not fun to lose championships. I had no smiles after the 4 losses. I mean, at some point it got very comedic, maybe smiles from how absurd losing 4 in a row was.
Billsatlastin2018 Posted September 16, 2019 Posted September 16, 2019 Allen is a work in progress, but ‘a good work’. Has the tools of strong arm, fast enough feet and intelligent brain, but his deficiencies? * Accuracy- the Bomb being one * Touch- needs to not worry about an Int if he lowers the velocity on wide open Receivers. * Running more carefully, so he doesn't get killed. Yesterday was an overall, B+/ A- performance. Some plays/ passes were ranked in the best of the game- the rollout, across the body to Knox. Some were poor- Brown and some stunk! We all want to see him light it up! 350+ yards, 4 TDs & no picks. Next week is the place to start, with 75k screaming fans, urging him on!
GunnerBill Posted September 16, 2019 Posted September 16, 2019 1 minute ago, CincyBillsFan said: It appears that Allen is now working under the new "perfection" criteria where QB's are judged harshly if EVERY throw isn't perfect. I need to know where the hell this insanity come from? It sure didn't come from watching the NFL. I mean very few people are making that point. Almost everyone here agrees he played well yesterday,
Billsatlastin2018 Posted September 16, 2019 Posted September 16, 2019 7 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said: My goodness this is the very definition of DEPRESSED! I would love to see the Bills go to 4 straight Super Bowl games again before I die. Hell going to another SB would be awesome. And even if they lose every one I'm laying in my coffin with a smile on my face. Yep. I went to two (XXV & XXVII) and loved every second, but the result! During those Glory Years, I watched EVERY second of every game- Attending multiple Home games, Playoff Games & 2 AFC Championships as a Season Tix holder. It provides perspective when younger peeps here try and say this current day Bill is fabulous and Allen is Kelly 2.0. Maybe. I hope so. Let’s see!
WideNine Posted September 16, 2019 Posted September 16, 2019 (edited) 50 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: I mean very few people are making that point. Almost everyone here agrees he played well yesterday, There is that stubborn few that will not be happy till Allen fails and they can say "I was right". Don't get it myself. Allen succeeding, means this team has finally found someone they can put under center to be competitive, and my pride can take a backseat to that any day. Also, I don't feel that most of us here have moved any goal posts as some claim. My stance on Allen and having patience has not changed one iota since last year. I am pretty pleased that he is showing progress in the areas that he needs to - not perfect, but getting it done and getting better the more time he spends under center and in the film room. Hope he continues to trend in the right direction, but expect to hit some speed bumps along the way. Edited September 16, 2019 by WideNine 1
Doc Posted September 16, 2019 Posted September 16, 2019 32 minutes ago, WideNine said: There is that stubborn few that will not be happy till Allen fails and they can say "I was right". Some are still pining for Wrong Josh?
WideNine Posted September 16, 2019 Posted September 16, 2019 1 minute ago, Doc said: Some are still pining for Wrong Josh? I actually feel kind of bad for Rosen - went from a bad situation in Zona to a raging dumpster fire in Miami. Would not wish that on any QB. He is going to get smoked down there if he starts in place of Fitz. At least Fitz gets rid of the ball more quickly, even if it was to the wrong team:)
Josh_Allen Posted September 16, 2019 Posted September 16, 2019 Just now, HOUSE said: I really wanted 65% You'll get that at the home opener. 1
Doc Posted September 16, 2019 Posted September 16, 2019 1 hour ago, WideNine said: I actually feel kind of bad for Rosen - went from a bad situation in Zona to a raging dumpster fire in Miami. Would not wish that on any QB. He is going to get smoked down there if he starts in place of Fitz. At least Fitz gets rid of the ball more quickly, even if it was to the wrong team:) I don’t feel bad for him but his situation does suck. Looking at Kyler Murray in Arizona, I think they made the right move dumping him. But Miami trading away he left tackle, even an average one like Tunsil, isn’t a good move for them and Rosen.
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