LSHMEAB Posted September 14, 2019 Posted September 14, 2019 58 minutes ago, KD in CA said: It counts more than Mahomes, who has played one year. Flacco is higher on the list than most want to admit. 100 percent agree on Flacco. He was a really good QB with ice water in his veins in playoff games for a solid stretch. I think his bad years have overly changed the perception of his CAREER. Mahomes. Agreed that it's too early to put him up there, but man; the sky is the limit.
ExiledInIllinois Posted September 14, 2019 Posted September 14, 2019 No Aaron Rodgers? Oops... Said AFC.
Brianmoorman4jesus Posted September 14, 2019 Posted September 14, 2019 I’m not sure if I think Rothlisbuger is the 3rd best. I think Rivers is. Rothlisburgers teams have won more but switch their teams and I bet Pittsburgh still wins Super Bowls with Rivers.
GunnerBill Posted September 14, 2019 Posted September 14, 2019 6 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said: Rivers Luck Flacco in that order I'd say.........that's 40% of AFC teams that had some degree of stability(or in the Broncos case a brief run of dominance) at the position during those 19 seasons. I expect that % to be much higher over the next 20 years..........it's getting easier to play the position and the incoming talent level has been high in recent years and the salaries are making it worthwhile for players on the fence about baseball/football to choose football. I have this order too. It is easily Rivers for me but I also have Luck and Flacco as the next two. 2
1st Ammendment NoMas Posted September 14, 2019 Posted September 14, 2019 4 hours ago, GunnerBill said: I have this order too. It is easily Rivers for me but I also have Luck and Flacco as the next two. I'm with ya. But after those three there is no dominance just good, solid QB play for fringe playoff teams who made a few deep playoff runs and one Super Bowl. The top three dominated with perennial playoff teams who went deep and WON multiple Super Bowls. And all three are nearing the end or finished their careers. The question is who is the next BIG THREE. I hope its Allen, Mahomes and..... Maybe Mayfield, but could be Lamar if Baltimore continues to ascend. I just think Lamar goes the way of Cam and his legs fall off within 5 years and I'm not on the Browns bandwagon.
GunnerBill Posted September 14, 2019 Posted September 14, 2019 2 minutes ago, BillsRdue said: I'm with ya. But after those three there is no dominance just good, solid QB play for fringe playoff teams who made a few deep playoff runs and one Super Bowl. The top three dominated with perennial playoff teams who went deep and WON multiple Super Bowls. And all three are nearing the end or finished their careers. The question is who is the next BIG THREE. I hope its Allen, Mahomes and..... Maybe Mayfield, but could be Lamar if Baltimore continues to ascend. I just think Lamar goes the way of Cam and his legs fall off within 5 years and I'm not on the Browns bandwagon. Deshaun Watson. Mahomes is ahead of the pack but in terms of judging what guys have done on the field Watson is way ahead of 3rd place among the young guys. Again there is a question about him protecting himself and making sure his career is a long one - as there is for Allen actually - but Watson's level of performance since he has been in the league has been incredible. The way Mahomes has played as kind of overshadowed it but Watson's performance has been outstanding.
El Guapo Posted September 14, 2019 Posted September 14, 2019 I would say Rivers. Mahomes will move into that spot if he maintains his trajectory.
PlayoffsPlease Posted September 14, 2019 Author Posted September 14, 2019 1 hour ago, El Guapo said: I would say Rivers. Mahomes will move into that spot if he maintains his trajectory. On his current trajectory top 3 is in reach for him. 1
Ethan in Cleveland Posted September 14, 2019 Posted September 14, 2019 Flacco. He won a SB and was SB MVP. Rivers is a great QB but he has come up small in the playoffs. He is the AFC version of Matt Ryan.
Kirby Jackson Posted September 14, 2019 Posted September 14, 2019 (edited) I think 5th best is an interesting question. Rivers is 8th all-time in yards, 6th all-time in TDs, 9th all-time in passer rating, 8th all-time in completions, and 10th all-time on completion percentage. He’s, without question, the 4th best AFC QB this century. There is not a debate to be made for anyone else. 5 minutes ago, Ethan in Portland said: Flacco. He won a SB and was SB MVP. Rivers is a great QB but he has come up small in the playoffs. He is the AFC version of Matt Ryan. Flacco’s good run doesn’t overshadow Rivers’ decade and a half of dominance. Edited September 14, 2019 by Kirby Jackson
Ethan in Cleveland Posted September 14, 2019 Posted September 14, 2019 45 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said: I think 5th best is an interesting question. Rivers is 8th all-time in yards, 6th all-time in TDs, 9th all-time in passer rating, 8th all-time in completions, and 10th all-time on completion percentage. He’s, without question, the 4th best AFC QB this century. There is not a debate to be made for anyone else. Flacco’s good run doesn’t overshadow Rivers’ decade and a half of dominance. I respect your opinion Kirby and Rivers was my first thought. But... Flacco is 10-5 in playoff games (11-4 if Lee Evans holds onto a pass with at least one more SB appearance), 25-10 TD-INT , and 88.6 rating. Rivers is 5-6 in playoff games, 14-10 TD-INT, and 84 rating. Flacco's performance as a QB is underrated.
MJS Posted September 14, 2019 Posted September 14, 2019 6 minutes ago, Ethan in Portland said: I respect your opinion Kirby and Rivers was my first thought. But... Flacco is 10-5 in playoff games (11-4 if Lee Evans holds onto a pass with at least one more SB appearance), 25-10 TD-INT , and 88.6 rating. Rivers is 5-6 in playoff games, 14-10 TD-INT, and 84 rating. Flacco's performance as a QB is underrated. I think Flacco is overrated because of his playoff performances. He's been average and even below average in the regular season. To me you have to consider the entire package, not just the playoffs, not just the big games, but everything.
PlayoffsPlease Posted September 14, 2019 Author Posted September 14, 2019 Just now, MJS said: I think Flacco is overrated because of his playoff performances. He's been average and even below average in the regular season. To me you have to consider the entire package, not just the playoffs, not just the big games, but everything. The scariest part is both are ultimately disappointing. I think sustained success means you may need to have a QB in that ultra-upper echelon, Rivers/Flacco level ultimately falls short. Among the young QBs i think Mahomes will be one of those guys. I also think Josh Allen will be. Don't see the potential in any of the other young AFC QBs (not even Watson)
Orlando Buffalo Posted September 14, 2019 Posted September 14, 2019 17 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said: He would probably crack the top 15 AFC QB's for the period for his two excellent seasons in SD at a time when QB'ing was a lot harder. He had excellent seasons in SD- I have not looked it up but all I remember I he got benched for Flutie
Ethan in Cleveland Posted September 14, 2019 Posted September 14, 2019 11 minutes ago, MJS said: I think Flacco is overrated because of his playoff performances. He's been average and even below average in the regular season. To me you have to consider the entire package, not just the playoffs, not just the big games, but everything. That is a fair argument. Ask yourself, which would you rather have. Rivers or Flacco and a SuperBowl win? No doubt in overall QB play Rivers is better. But I'm looking at the entire package and the SB win means a lot
Kirby Jackson Posted September 14, 2019 Posted September 14, 2019 (edited) 25 minutes ago, Ethan in Portland said: I respect your opinion Kirby and Rivers was my first thought. But... Flacco is 10-5 in playoff games (11-4 if Lee Evans holds onto a pass with at least one more SB appearance), 25-10 TD-INT , and 88.6 rating. Rivers is 5-6 in playoff games, 14-10 TD-INT, and 84 rating. Flacco's performance as a QB is underrated. I agree and have always been a Flacco defender (at least until the last 2 or 3 years). He’s been underrated and tough in the playoffs. Even still his 15 game playoff career doesn’t put him on par with Rivers. Rivers is a HOF QB. Flacco is Nick Foles in a lot of ways (and I mean that as a compliment). He is a guy that rises in big moments. Rivers is historically great. He will retire top 5 in most, if not all, major categories. I know that we are in a passing era but that doesn’t take away from how effective he has been. If I’m ranking AFC QBs since 2000 it is: - Brady - Peyton - Ben - Rivers - Luck - Flacco - Carson Palmer - Gannon - Pennington - Alex Smith - Dalton - Schaub Obviously, there are some young guys now that will almost certainly break into that list. A couple year sample size though isn’t enough for me (which is also why Brees isn’t on my list). Edited September 14, 2019 by Kirby Jackson
MJS Posted September 14, 2019 Posted September 14, 2019 6 minutes ago, Ethan in Portland said: That is a fair argument. Ask yourself, which would you rather have. Rivers or Flacco and a SuperBowl win? No doubt in overall QB play Rivers is better. But I'm looking at the entire package and the SB win means a lot Winning the Superbowl takes more than just a QB. Flacco was good in the playoffs, but he wasn't the only (maybe not even the primary) reason they won a Superbowl. I'd take Rivers 10/10 times.
Ethan in Cleveland Posted September 14, 2019 Posted September 14, 2019 6 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said: I agree and have always been a Flacco defender (at least until the last 2 or 3 years). He’s been underrated and tough in the playoffs. Even still his 15 game playoff career doesn’t put him on par with Rivers. Rivers is a HOF QB. Flacco is Nick Foles in a lot of ways (and I mean that as a compliment). He is a guy that rises in big moments. Rivers is historically great. He will retire top 5 in most, if not all, major categories. I know that we are in a passing era but that doesn’t take away from how effective he has been. If I’m ranking AFC QBs since 2000 it is: - Brady - Peyton - Ben - Rivers - Luck - Flacco - Carson Palmer - Gannon - Pennington - Alex Smith - Dalton - Schaub Obviously, there are some young guys now that will almost certainly break into that list. A couple year sample size though isn’t enough for me (which is also why Brees isn’t on my list). Luck ahead of Flacco? Luck's sample size is smaller, has 12K less yards, and 30 less TDs. Also played small in the playoffs. 4-4 record, 12-13 TD-INT ratio and a QB rating of 74. Obviously I'm putting more emphasis on playoff performance than others. But if the goal is to win a championship shouldn't performance in big moments count a bit more than throwing for 300 yards in a losing effort in a regular season game ?
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