Zay Jones blocking ability - I’m impressed

[Alphadawg7]

50 minutes ago, BuffaloHokie13 said:

To be fair, 5/37 is still 13.5% of our passes. Also, 5 targets on 29 snaps means he was targeted over 17% of the time he was in the game which is exactly in line with Brown & Beasley (17% & 19% respectively)

 

Yeah, but that kind of math still doesn't really help his case.  It just further shows that in a game where we intended to pass a lot (the plan was to throw a lot early in the game) to exploit the weakest part of the Jets defense, Zay (our starting WR, in his 3rd year, who was a 2nd round pick) was not really a big part of the game plan.

 

At some point, the excuses need to stop and the production needs to happen. 

 

22 yards or less in 4 of his last 7 games with Allen tells me something is off.  A shaky preseason and minimal impact week 1 tells me this (so far) is just more of the same with Zay and right in line with what we have seen from him before.

 

He doesn't need a bunch of excuses from a few posters to change critics minds, he needs to show it on the field...so far, shaky preseason and minimal week 1 usage an impact isn't doing that.  

 

 

15 minutes ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

The mention of 5 targets implies that the 3 non-catches were related to him. If not, why even mention it? You see why that framing taints so much of what you're up to? A person not knowing any better would be led to an incorrect conclusion. 

 

I mention 5 targets to show the MINIMAL amount he was involved in.  I did not say anything about his catch rate, not once.  I did consistently highlight his lack of involvement.  So no disrespect, but you're forming your own narrative on that and putting words in my mouth not consistent with I actually did say.  

Edited September 11, 2019 by Alphadawg7

[JoshAllenHasBigHands]

25 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Yeah, but that kind of math still doesn't really help his case.  It just further shows that in a game where we intended to pass a lot (the plan was to throw a lot early in the game) to exploit the weakest part of the Jets defense, Zay (our starting WR, in his 3rd year, who was a 2nd round pick) was not really a big part of the game plan.

 

At some point, the excuses need to stop and the production needs to happen. 

 

22 yards or less in 4 of his last 7 games with Allen tells me something is off.  A shaky preseason and minimal impact week 1 tells me this (so far) is just more of the same with Zay and right in line with what we have seen from him before.

 

He doesn't need a bunch of excuses from a few posters to change critics minds, he needs to show it on the field...so far, shaky preseason and minimal week 1 usage an impact isn't doing that.  

 

 

 

I mention 5 targets to show the MINIMAL amount he was involved in.  I did not say anything about his catch rate, not once.  I did consistently highlight his lack of involvement.  So no disrespect, but you're forming your own narrative on that and putting words in my mouth not consistent with I actually did say.  

Words have meaning, man. This is what rhetoric is all about. I don’t think you’re dumb, so I assume you know better than to dismiss the point as a narrative. Or, maybe you’ve just become so defensive because you have pigeon-holed yourself into a bad take. 

[Alphadawg7]

17 minutes ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

Words have meaning, man. This is what rhetoric is all about. I don’t think you’re dumb, so I assume you know better than to dismiss the point as a narrative. Or, maybe you’ve just become so defensive because you have pigeon-holed yourself into a bad take. 

 

Bad take?  Come one man lol. 

 

If you are going to call it a "bad take", why don't you actually tell me what he has done on the field to prove its a bad take?  

 

Was it his shaky preseason with drops and miscues?  Was it his limited involvement in a pass happy week and 18 yards receiving?  Was it his 22 yards or less receiving in his last 7 games with Allen since he came back from injury?  Was it all the appearances in the Allen drops video?  Is it the less than 40 yards in 10 of 13 games with Allen as the QB?  

 

Sorry dude, but the criticisms are not coming from just me.  You like to focus on me because of one thread, but there are a lot more critics than defenders of him at this point.  Yes the "prediction" part was not accurate, but so far the criticisms have been validated on the field his first 2 years and so far in preseason and week 1 he has to prove them wrong on the field.

 

You want Zay to get some breathing room and the quiet the critics...great, then call him and tell him to do it on the field.  3 years of excuses...and I am done with the excuses.  Time to be a WR and produce.  

 

I am cool if you want to keep defending him and making excuses.  All good.  But its pretty silly to call the criticisms bad takes and for you try and twist words to create narratives I am not saying just to try and discredit the points that were actually made.  

 

 

Edited September 11, 2019 by Alphadawg7

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

1 hour ago, Real McCoy said:

Overthrown on one

Tip at line for INT on another

Complete throw away for 3

 

This is if memory serves right to last Sunday. 

Like a typical Tyrod type game. Lol ? ? ? 

 

3 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

You want Zay to get some breathing room and the quiet the critics...great, then call him and tell him to do it on the field.  3 years of excuses...and I am done with the excuses.  Time to be a WR and produce.  

Year 1 was atrocious 

year 2 improvement 

year 3 one game    See above recollection 

 

tip ball is not his fault nor is a throw away 

 

im all for criticism when criticism is due. 

 

This is his year to prove himself ? 

[ColoradoBills]

24 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Yeah, but that kind of math still doesn't really help his case.  It just further shows that in a game where we intended to pass a lot (the plan was to throw a lot early in the game) to exploit the weakest part of the Jets defense, Zay (our starting WR, in his 3rd year, who was a 2nd round pick) was not really a big part of the game plan.

 

At some point, the excuses need to stop and the production needs to happen. 

 

22 yards or less in 4 of his last 7 games with Allen tells me something is off.  A shaky preseason and minimal impact week 1 tells me this (so far) is just more of the same with Zay and right in line with what we have seen from him before.

 

He doesn't need a bunch of excuses from a few posters to change critics minds, he needs to show it on the field...so far, shaky preseason and minimal week 1 usage an impact isn't doing that.  

 

 

Alpha, you got some really good post and comments but you are like a dawg (pun intended) with a bone when it comes to Jones.

 

1st - He was NOT a starter.  The Bills started and played most of the game in 21 personnel.  Go check the box score.  Brown and Beasley started.

2nd - Zay is the 3rd WR on the team.  Not the 4th and not the 2nd and certainly not the 1st.  3rd WR is what most poster predicted for him this year and

     it seems to be that we were right.  His draft position means nothing and Daboll doesn't care.

3rd - Zay Jones is not going to be the guy that Daboll schemes around when he does a game plan.  2WR/1RB/1TE have more influence in

    game planning than he does.  Once again, he is where he is.  2nd round pick means nothing this year.

 

Now all that being said, yes it is true to many that Zay has not lived up to his 2nd round pick potential so far and may never.

BUT, it doesn't matter.  He is exactly located where he needs to be at this time as the 3rd WR.

 

It seems pretty obvious to Beane, McDermott, Daboll, the fans and even Zay himself where he is at and what is expected of him this

year but you keep trying to make an issue out of it.  Personally I don't care about his past OR whether he will be on the team next year,

the only thing I'm concerned about is how he plays against the Gmen Sunday and I hope he does well.

 

[Alphadawg7]

12 minutes ago, SlimShady'sGhost said:

Like a typical Tyrod type game. Lol ? ? ? 

 

Year 1 was atrocious 

year 2 improvement 

year 3 one game    See above recollection 

 

tip ball is not his fault nor is a throw away 

 

im all for criticism when criticism is due. 

 

This is his year to prove himself ? 

 

To be fair, I was harder on Cole than Zay.  Cole almost lost us the game twice Sunday.  

 

I hope Zay had a good year, but I am also done making excuses for his lack of production.  He did nothing to dispel my concerns in preseason, and he was barely involved in a pass happy gameplay week 1 despite the fact neither Foster (turf toe) and McKenzie saw the field much.  

 

I will be the first to praise him when he goes out and shows me it on the field.  Until then, my concerns about him remain.  

7 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

Alpha, you got some really good post and comments but you are like a dawg (pun intended) with a bone when it comes to Jones.

 

1st - He was NOT a starter.  The Bills started and played most of the game in 21 personnel.  Go check the box score.  Brown and Beasley started.

2nd - Zay is the 3rd WR on the team.  Not the 4th and not the 2nd and certainly not the 1st.  3rd WR is what most poster predicted for him this year and

     it seems to be that we were right.  His draft position means nothing and Daboll doesn't care.

3rd - Zay Jones is not going to be the guy that Daboll schemes around when he does a game plan.  2WR/1RB/1TE have more influence in

    game planning than he does.  Once again, he is where he is.  2nd round pick means nothing this year.

 

Now all that being said, yes it is true to many that Zay has not lived up to his 2nd round pick potential so far and may never.

BUT, it doesn't matter.  He is exactly located where he needs to be at this time as the 3rd WR.

 

It seems pretty obvious to Beane, McDermott, Daboll, the fans and even Zay himself where he is at and what is expected of him this

year but you keep trying to make an issue out of it.  Personally I don't care about his past OR whether he will be on the team next year,

the only thing I'm concerned about is how he plays against the Gmen Sunday and I hope he does well.

 

 

Its all good man, I am not intending to be that.  But I keep having the same excuses thrown at me and challenged, and I am just not afraid to address.  I was harder on Coles performance week 1, but that was overlooked.   

 

And this all about Allen...my passion is Allens development.  I just want him to have the tools to succeed.

 

 

Edited September 11, 2019 by Alphadawg7

[Mango]

8 hours ago, billsfan1959 said:

Zay Jones is a good blocking WR. He needs to show up more as a pass catching WR. I like Zay and believe he has the talent; however, he has not yet lived up to being the 37th overall pick. Hoping we see it this year.

 

 

Sub Josh Reed for Zay Jones, and it’s like we are right back in 2004. ?

 

Zay has higher up side. 

[BuffaloBill]

6 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

Foster did that in preseason too 

 

 

I guess this is why he is sitting on the bench 

[JoPoy88]

9 hours ago, billsfan1959 said:

I'm not saying he should have caught more passes on the plays he was targeted in this game. I was speaking of his overall time here. I cerainly understand the offensive issues on this team during his tenure with the Bills, particularly at the QB position; however, we see receivers emerge in similar situations and put up more consistent plays and numbers than he has. Again, I think he has the talent and I have always been a supporter of his - I just don't feel he has managed to play at the level I think he is capable of. Hoping it starts this year.

 

Examples?

[JoPoy88]

2 hours ago, SlimShady'sGhost said:

And the other overthrows are the fault of the guys targeted too then ?

 

I know Zay is an easy target (pun intended)

I prefer more facts than speculation. 

 

 

Nope. Overthrows are always on Zay because he’s slow or ran the wrong route. You gotta get with the program with Zay bud.

[BuffaloHokie13]

2 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

Yeah, but that kind of math still doesn't really help his case.  It just further shows that in a game where we intended to pass a lot (the plan was to throw a lot early in the game) to exploit the weakest part of the Jets defense, Zay (our starting WR, in his 3rd year, who was a 2nd round pick) was not really a big part of the game plan.

 

At some point, the excuses need to stop and the production needs to happen. 

 

22 yards or less in 4 of his last 7 games with Allen tells me something is off.  A shaky preseason and minimal impact week 1 tells me this (so far) is just more of the same with Zay and right in line with what we have seen from him before.

 

He doesn't need a bunch of excuses from a few posters to change critics minds, he needs to show it on the field...so far, shaky preseason and minimal week 1 usage an impact isn't doing that.  

The math shows he's getting used/open at the same rate as Brown & Beasley when he's on the field. The production on the targets was poor though, bad rate of return. The snap counts say he's WR3. If Brown & Beasley are combining for 15-20 targets per game, there will be a few outlet passes to the RB, say 3-5, and they're going to target the TE another 2-5 times that's already 20-30 of Allen's attempts in any given game. I'm just not seeing much more opportunity for Zay than maybe 5 targets +/- 2. Especially when he's not turning those opportunities into production. And that's before also introducing Foster (who's been mysteriously invisible) and McKenzie on some gadget plays or screens.

 

3 hours ago, SlimShady'sGhost said:

And the other overthrows are the fault of the guys targeted too then ?

 

I know Zay is an easy target (pun intended)

I prefer more facts than speculation. 

Not sure on others. Zay has been known to run the wrong routes and not be in the right place or take the right angles. That's why I'm inclined to believe the overthrow was on Zay for that particular attempt.

[Rocky Landing]

50 minutes ago, BuffaloHokie13 said:

The math shows he's getting used/open at the same rate as Brown & Beasley when he's on the field. The production on the targets was poor though, bad rate of return. The snap counts say he's WR3. If Brown & Beasley are combining for 15-20 targets per game, there will be a few outlet passes to the RB, say 3-5, and they're going to target the TE another 2-5 times that's already 20-30 of Allen's attempts in any given game. I'm just not seeing much more opportunity for Zay than maybe 5 targets +/- 2. Especially when he's not turning those opportunities into production. And that's before also introducing Foster (who's been mysteriously invisible) and McKenzie on some gadget plays or screens.

 

Not sure on others. Zay has been known to run the wrong routes and not be in the right place or take the right angles. That's why I'm inclined to believe the overthrow was on Zay for that particular attempt.

I believe Zay’s route running is one of his strengths. 

[JoPoy88]

2 minutes ago, Rocky Landing said:

I believe Zay’s route running is one of his strengths. 

 

He gets open a lot for someone that’s never gonna just run past someone. Must be something.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

3 minutes ago, Rocky Landing said:

I believe Zay’s route running is one of his strengths. 

 

And showing guys where to line up.  

 

I thought i saw him hand signaling someone Sunday like he had to do with KB.  

[Teddy KGB]

2 minutes ago, JoPoy88 said:

 

He gets open a lot for someone that’s never gonna just run past someone. Must be something.

 

Didnt every rookie wr from the 19 draft put up better numbers?  

 

The guy blocked someone smaller than him ??????  

 

Baby steps and no more fly routes ever 

Edited September 12, 2019 by Teddy KGB

[JoPoy88]

5 minutes ago, Teddy KGB said:

 

Didnt every rookie wr from the 19 draft put up better numbers?  

 

The guy blocked someone smaller than him ??????  

 

Baby steps and no more fly routes ever 

 

Zay’s rookie numbers are terrible and his 2nd year numbers were better but nothing to write home about. So no argument there. And no fly routes.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

I still blame Tyrod Taylor for the lack of production in his rookie season.   

 

Too many uncatchable balls labeled as targets.  

 

Not making excuses for Zay because he needed to perform better which no one is arguing.  

[YoloinOhio]

5 hours ago, BuffaloHokie13 said:

I'll be honest, on the 'overthrow' I said in real time that that's why Foster should play instead of Zay (blamed it on Zay not being a good receiver).

I don’t understand sending Zay deep to begin with. That’s just not his game. 

54 minutes ago, SlimShady'sGhost said:

 

And showing guys where to line up.  

 

I thought i saw him hand signaling someone Sunday like he had to do with KB.  

Probably foster 

[Stank_Nasty]

1 minute ago, YoloinOhio said:

I don’t understand sending Zay deep to begin with. That’s just not his game. 

 

Is it just me or has he seemed to play quite a bit slower than his 4.45 at the combine? 

[YoloinOhio]

Just now, Stank_Nasty said:

Is it just me or has he seemed to play quite a bit slower than his 4.45 at the combine? 

I don’t know but he doesn’t get the separation that guys like Brown and Foster get