Hapless Bills Fan Posted September 11, 2019 Posted September 11, 2019 16 minutes ago, RochesterRob said: It will only be negative if there are clear cut facts to be put out in the open. This will stay at "he said, she said" as it is improbable any real evidence is sitting at the ready to be used. Did this woman go to a police station and let them go through the routine as far as examination of a raped woman goes? Probably not. Here I go against my better judgement. A couple of points here: 1) rape kit exams take place in a hospital with a certified SART, not at a police station. It is not at all like "being checked by a doctor". It takes 2-4 hrs and is comprehensive and painful. 2) in many cases - this would be one - a rape kit or sexual assault exam is irrelevant as the person with whom the sexual act took place is not in question**, nor does it appear to be in question that a sexual act or acts took place. What is in question is the consensual nature of the acts, which the rape kit can not address. A physical exam showing evidence of violence might help the case, but would not be conclusive as people do consent to sex which turns out to cause bruising, tearing, or bleeding and the defense would argue this. **in his texts AB acknowledged one act, and in his response his lawyer acknowledges a sexual relationship which he says was consensual The "did she get checked by a doctor?" or "did she go through the examination of a raped woman?" questions are not relevant here. 2 4
BurpleBull Posted September 11, 2019 Posted September 11, 2019 11 hours ago, YoloinOhio said: It’s really not easy to put your name out there as a female. Especially in a high profile case like this. I don’t see why he would get the benefit of the doubt. The only two people who know what happened are him and her. I don’t know her. I do know a lot about him. I don’t know what happened. But no way am “not inclined to believe her” because she’s a female accuser. And it would be even more difficult to pose in pics and have multiple interactions with your alleged rapist following the first incident, at least one would think; I don't see why she would get the benefit of the doubt.
Warren Zevon Posted September 11, 2019 Posted September 11, 2019 26 minutes ago, Cmdjr85 said: Where as going down this road their is no repercussion for making a bogus claim. Except for a counter suit that will ruin her financially for the rest of her life, no there isn't 1
DasNootz Posted September 11, 2019 Posted September 11, 2019 8 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: **in his texts AB acknowledged one act, and in his response his lawyer acknowledges a sexual relationship which he says was consensual Exactly what did he acknowledge? The email started with "I jack my d$%@ on your back !" For all we know she may have told him she was pregnant, and this email is simply a denial of that possibility. Without the full context of the conversation leading up to that e-mail, we know very little. It will all shake out in the end (no pun intended). I hope which ever side is lying gets held accountable for their actions.
Hapless Bills Fan Posted September 11, 2019 Posted September 11, 2019 5 minutes ago, BurpleBull said: And it would be even more difficult to pose in pics and have multiple interactions with your alleged rapist following the first incident, at least one would think; I don't see why she would get the benefit of the doubt. Do you see why he should get the benefit of the doubt? Why is it hard to see that if it's really about being fair and giving the benefit of the doubt, it should go both ways?
RochesterRob Posted September 11, 2019 Posted September 11, 2019 7 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Here I go against my better judgement. A couple of points here: 1) rape kit exams take place in a hospital with a certified SART, not at a police station. It is not at all like "being checked by a doctor". It takes 2-4 hrs and is comprehensive and painful. 2) in many cases - this would be one - a rape kit or sexual assault exam is irrelevant as the person with whom the sexual act took place is not in question, nor does it appear to be in question that a sexual act or acts took place. What is in question is the consensual nature of the acts, which the rape kit can not address. A physical exam showing evidence of violence might help the case, but would not be conclusive as people do consent to sex which turns out to cause bruising, tearing, or bleeding and the defense would argue this. I don't keep current with what is taking place in law enforcement but I thought that a lot of agencies were moving towards being able to do exams at a police station albeit with a doctor or RN that is called in to administer the test. The idea was this would increase privacy and provide a more solid chain of evidence to protect the victim. Agreed that any test will not prove that the encounter was non-consensual or otherwise but will at least back the victim up that something took place versus being a figment of the imagination.
Hapless Bills Fan Posted September 11, 2019 Posted September 11, 2019 Just now, YoloinOhio said: Well, well, well. 1 2
Chandler#81 Posted September 11, 2019 Posted September 11, 2019 11 hours ago, Chill said: Let’s get the facts before we judge a persons character by what the media reports. We all know how the media behaves for clicks and ratings. Pot meet kettle. You’ve provided ample reports of your facts to accurately evaluate your character. Spoiler Alert: you’re not gonna like it.
YoloinOhio Posted September 11, 2019 Posted September 11, 2019 6 minutes ago, BurpleBull said: And it would be even more difficult to pose in pics and have multiple interactions with your alleged rapist following the first incident, at least one would think; I don't see why she would get the benefit of the doubt. No one is getting the benefit of the doubt. The only two people who know what happened are him and her. That’s why there is an investigation.
D. L. Hot-Flamethrower Posted September 11, 2019 Posted September 11, 2019 7 minutes ago, Kelly the Dog said: Wonder what's in store today? Armed Bank Robbery? Drug running?
Hapless Bills Fan Posted September 11, 2019 Posted September 11, 2019 Just now, RochesterRob said: I don't keep current with what is taking place in law enforcement but I thought that a lot of agencies were moving towards being able to do exams at a police station albeit with a doctor or RN that is called in to administer the test. The idea was this would increase privacy and provide a more solid chain of evidence to protect the victim. Agreed that any test will not prove that the encounter was non-consensual or otherwise but will at least back the victim up that something took place versus being a figment of the imagination. There is no need to "back the victim up" that something took place vs figment of imagination. Brown acknowledges that something took place. Several somethings. We agree on the main point: a medical exam or rape kit are not germaine here, because the issue is consent, not whether sexual acts occurred. I do agree that if the woman went straight to the police station that evening and only went back to get her belongings accompanied by a third party for protection, it would add credibility to the rape allegation, but we don't yet know what she did do. It is possible that she did something that would lend credence to her story. I don't know. See here's the thing folks: there's a big "damned if you do, damned if you don't" for the alleged victim here. If the victim puts everything out there, she or he is "trying the case in the Court of Public Opinion". Ir the victim doesn't put everything out there, "there's no evidence!". I'm not gonna say Brown did this - I don't know. I'm not gonna say it's nothing but a money grab, either. 3
Goldenrod2000 Posted September 11, 2019 Posted September 11, 2019 13 hours ago, oldmanfan said: I have two daughters. I hear what happens to some of their friends. Not to the extent claimed in the AB case but I side on the womens’ side until proven wrong. The league has to look into this, as do the authorities. And we’ll see what happens. Except that you, if falsely accused of a crime would feel differently and would not want people to rush to judgement
Hapless Bills Fan Posted September 11, 2019 Posted September 11, 2019 18 minutes ago, Gary Busey said: Except for a counter suit that will ruin her financially for the rest of her life, no there isn't Not to mention all the negative public reaction. She took down her social media. There's a reason for that.
BurpleBull Posted September 11, 2019 Posted September 11, 2019 12 hours ago, Reed83HOF said: You could see the difference in 40 times even back then. 3
JohnC Posted September 11, 2019 Posted September 11, 2019 2 hours ago, plenzmd1 said: shield is more important than anything else. Those emails are enough to at least lend some credence the accusations. AB is still paid, but gives the NFL some time to interview the accuser and any associates. Not sure what it portends, but the flagship program for the league has not reported this story ar all..that is really weird What's more important than the shield (a public relations consideration) is acting based on facts and a fair process. The complaint is a civil complaint based on interactions that happened more than a year ago. This isn't a case where there was an assault incident where the police responded to a home. In that type of situation I can see placing the player on an exempt list. I have no problem with the NFL interviewing accusers and associates. If there is enough evidence to indicate that something criminal-like happened then I would have no problem with the league taking some form of action. However, I do have a problem with those clamoring for the league to take some action against the player before there is at least a preliminary investigation. I'm far from being an AB apologist. He is a wretched human being. But that doesn't mean that he doesn't deserve a fair process. As I keep saying to you without much penetration: Trust the process.
5 Wide Posted September 11, 2019 Posted September 11, 2019 To me, a guy like Antonio Brown may have raped her, and doesn't even realize it. So as to say, a narcissistic self centered guy of generally bad character is used to getting his way regardless of what people say and do. What was a nothing incident to him was actually him imposing his will in an assault.
SectionC3 Posted September 11, 2019 Posted September 11, 2019 22 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Here I go against my better judgement. A couple of points here: 1) rape kit exams take place in a hospital with a certified SART, not at a police station. It is not at all like "being checked by a doctor". It takes 2-4 hrs and is comprehensive and painful. 2) in many cases - this would be one - a rape kit or sexual assault exam is irrelevant as the person with whom the sexual act took place is not in question**, nor does it appear to be in question that a sexual act or acts took place. What is in question is the consensual nature of the acts, which the rape kit can not address. A physical exam showing evidence of violence might help the case, but would not be conclusive as people do consent to sex which turns out to cause bruising, tearing, or bleeding and the defense would argue this. **in his texts AB acknowledged one act, and in his response his lawyer acknowledges a sexual relationship which he says was consensual The "did she get checked by a doctor?" or "did she go through the examination of a raped woman?" questions are not relevant here. I’m not sure how a sexual assault exam would be irrelevant here. Sure, the scientific evidence collected through a rape kit (e.g., ***** sample, hair, fingernail scrapings) would be of relatively little value because there is no dispute as to the identity of the perpetrator. (Fingernail scrapings might support a victim’s contention that she fought off her attacker, but that’s besides the point as of now). Where I STRONGLY disagree with you is with respect to physical examination that is conducted in conjunction with the performance of the rape kit. The examination easily could have produced evidence of the use of force against the victim, including forcible penetration. Ultimately, this is a case that will come down to the evaluation of the plaintiff’s credibility. From both civil and criminal perspectives (I appreciate that there is no criminal proceeding [yet]), the victim’s testimony that she was raped is sufficient to meet the burden of proof. I suspect that the case will be settled out of court — there appear to be weaknesses in her case (no rape kit, probably no admissible prompt outcry evidence inasmuch as I understand the first disclosure of the alleged rape to a friend to have been very distant in time from that event, possible subsequent friendly contact with defendant), but if this is a contest of credibility and I’m Antonio Brown I’m not sure that I want any part of it for a variety of reasons. (Along those lines, the counterclaim for slander or whatever his attorney intends to allege is not a great idea because it threatens the possibility of aggravating impressionable jurors.) So, thumbnail sketch, it’s not a slam dunk but this is at least a headache and perhaps even a very big problem for Brown.
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