3rdand12 Posted September 10, 2019 Posted September 10, 2019 5 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said: Why? Don't want to get caught with a LB out in coverage against a......fullback? Really worried about that? And most defenses are fine with making you go 12 plays to get a score........which is the way it was going for 3 quarters before Moseley got hurt. I suspect(and hope) that the game plan will change significantly from week to week and we won't see a fullback playing the Z position. I suspect and also hope you are right. Bills designed the "Staff" for flexibility. whether week to week or for game time adjustments. I feel we might now have the players and Coaching staff to execute our hopes
dollars 2 donuts Posted September 10, 2019 Posted September 10, 2019 2 hours ago, Logic said: The problem with that plan is that if the defense comes out in nickel or dime, the Bills would line up in a pro set and run the ball. Unless Yeldon learned how to play fullback and I missed it, that doesn't really work. I suppose you could have them in a shotgun or pistol split backs formation, but again, you're taking away a lead blocker. What he said. ?
Logic Posted September 10, 2019 Author Posted September 10, 2019 44 minutes ago, Shaw66 said: Thanks for this. Every day there's more evidence that the Bills are mimicking the Patriots. Sure seemed like with 2 running backs they were forcing the D to play three linebackers, and by then splitting DiMarco out they were forcing the D to make a choice - send a linebacker out to the flat, weakening the run defense, or send a DB out to take him, meaning that the Bills had a linebacker matched up with a wideout. Indeed. I also saw it pointed out on Twitter today that most teams have a limited number of defenses to check to in response to certain things. Specifically, the Jets defense likely only had a few basic defenses to check into when the Bills flexed their 21 personnel into spread formations. The analyst showed several videos where the Jets came out in an exotic look, but then once the Bills flexed into a spread set, the defense had no choice but to check into a vanilla cover 2 shell. The combination of the no-huddle offense, the personnel grouping, and the formations being flexed into by the Bills forced the opposition OUT of exotic defensive looks and into vanilla looks that Josh knew how to attack. That's high level, New England-esque playcalling. Kudos to Daboll. 2
Buffalo716 Posted September 10, 2019 Posted September 10, 2019 2 hours ago, jwhit34 said: If they are going to use 21 personnel so much I would like to see them put Yeldon in as the 2nd back instead of DiMarco and if they shift into a passing play have Yeldon or Singletary splitting out in a WR slot instead of DiMarco. Yeldon isn't going to be blocking 250 pound linebackers flying in at full speed 1
GoBills808 Posted September 10, 2019 Posted September 10, 2019 Just now, 3rdand12 said: I suspect and also hope you are right. Bills designed the "Staff" for flexibility. whether week to week or for game time adjustments. I feel we might now have the players and Coaching staff to execute our hopes My thing wrt offensive 'looks' that are working for other teams now and in the recent past has been having one standout/elite talent at either the TE or RB position. Some of the best and most effective offensive groupings I can recall offhand (at least ones that were used consistently and to good effect) were the Eagles 2TE set w/ Ertz and Godert and Saints 22 running Kamara/Ingram and Cook/Hill, and those were great because respectively Ertz is a superduper talent esp when you have to decide defensively to cover with a DB or LB and Saints are so dangerous when Kamara is a pass option if you stay in nickle the check to Ingram kills if your tight ends can block even marginally. Protecting your most dangerous offensive talents by lining up in a package that keeps them 'multiple' is a great way of maximizing talent even if they don't necessarily end up w/the ball. Far as Bills...we lack a Thomas-like wideout that can be the backbreaker option if the defense sells out on containing Kamara leaving him in single coverage, or a receiving TE threat to match the way Eagles have with Goedert because one of either him or Ertz is getting checked by nickle corner or safety which is a mismatch either way. If the Bills are going to continue using a bunch of 2RB/1TE (which I believe they will because it's arguably the grouping that gives most offensive options with speed guy like Brown outside and a bunch of TEs who are fairly similar receiving threats) I would expect to see more of Yeldon going forward because if you leave Gore in w/Singletary in 21 I think defensively they are easier to deal with...TE doesn't need special treatment (imo) and Gore is either in pass pro or a checkdown option instead of true threat (not that he can't catch the ball, just overall) to leak out onto LB.
GunnerBill Posted September 10, 2019 Posted September 10, 2019 18 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said: Yeldon isn't going to be blocking 250 pound linebackers flying in at full speed Yeldon couldn't block a plug hole.
GG Posted September 10, 2019 Posted September 10, 2019 1 hour ago, BADOLBILZ said: I mean honestly........how often do you expect teams to end up with one of their corners out wide against the fullback again after what the Bills put on tape Sunday? And it didn't even really work THEN. That’s what gets me about this debate, thinking that DiMarco is a useful gadget RB. It failed badly on Sunday and will fail more now that there’s tape. 1
BADOLBILZ Posted September 10, 2019 Posted September 10, 2019 15 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said: Yeldon isn't going to be blocking 250 pound linebackers flying in at full speed I remember way back in the olden days of 2015 and 2016 when the Bills running game was the best in the league by a lot and they did it without a fullback! That must've been sacrilege to you not having a fullback on the field.
Buffalo716 Posted September 10, 2019 Posted September 10, 2019 8 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said: I remember way back in the olden days of 2015 and 2016 when the Bills running game was the best in the league by a lot and they did it without a fullback! That must've been sacrilege to you not having a fullback on the field. I don't agree with every decision the Bills make... But football teams are filled with men who follow a role. His special teams play , leadership and obviously being selfless has earned himself a role on the team The second there is someone better for the role, fill it. But it probably won't be till the off-season 1
Mat68 Posted September 10, 2019 Posted September 10, 2019 48 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said: Why? Don't want to get caught with a LB out in coverage against a......fullback? Really worried about that? And most defenses are fine with making you go 12 plays to get a score........which is the way it was going for 3 quarters before Moseley got hurt. I suspect(and hope) that the game plan will change significantly from week to week and we won't see a fullback playing the Z position. If those drives end in points not turnovers, the defense will adjust to stop the quick passing game. 1
Logic Posted September 10, 2019 Author Posted September 10, 2019 18 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said: I remember way back in the olden days of 2015 and 2016 when the Bills running game was the best in the league by a lot and they did it without a fullback! That must've been sacrilege to you not having a fullback on the field. 1.) The Bills DID roster a fullback those years. Jerome Felton. 2.) Greg Roman isn't with the Bills anymore, so what he did or didn't do with his scheme is irrelevant anyway. 3.) The current offensive coordinator's system includes a fullback. Until Daboll leaves town, everyone's just going to have to live with it.
BuffaloBill Posted September 10, 2019 Posted September 10, 2019 1 hour ago, BADOLBILZ said: Not really new.......Kevin Gilbride tried to do the same thing here in 2003. Run and shoot is not the same scheme as Erhardt Perkins. Keep in mind the Bills played 21 personnel because it leaves open all options. Gilbride’s system deemphasized even eliminated TE’s. This is exactly the opposite of what Dabol and notoriously what the *Cheats do, Stupid comment on your part.
BADOLBILZ Posted September 10, 2019 Posted September 10, 2019 Just now, Logic said: 1.) The Bills DID roster a fullback those years. Jerome Felton. 2.) Greg Roman isn't with the Bills anymore, so what he did or didn't do with his scheme is irrelevant anyway. 3.) The current offensive coordinator's system includes a fullback. Until Daboll leaves town, everyone's just going to have to live with it. True I forgot about Jerome. It wasn't fundamentally integral to his system success and it won't be a key to a good running game here now either. I'm okay with them employing a fullback sometimes but if Josh Allen plays well he will start to dictate terms and I expect he will want an actual matchup winner.
BillsFan692 Posted September 10, 2019 Posted September 10, 2019 (edited) Patriots always run with that fullback and he is a beast that guy they got... Pretty sure he gave tremaine edmunds a concussion last year.. Anyways, Di'Marco aint that guy... so I'm not a huge fan. Edited September 10, 2019 by BillsFan692
BADOLBILZ Posted September 10, 2019 Posted September 10, 2019 3 minutes ago, BuffaloBill said: Run and shoot is not the same scheme as Erhardt Perkins. Keep in mind the Bills played 21 personnel because it leaves open all options. Gilbride’s system deemphasized even eliminated TE’s. This is exactly the opposite of what Dabol and notoriously what the *Cheats do, Stupid comment on your part. 2003 Bills offense was run and shoot? Idiotic comment on your part. They went out and got Mark Campbell and Sam Gash to try to create a balanced attack that they could use just like people here are describing.........21 personnel. When Gilbride was OC of the Giants did he also operate a "run and shoot"?
stinky finger Posted September 10, 2019 Posted September 10, 2019 1 hour ago, BADOLBILZ said: Why? Don't want to get caught with a LB out in coverage against a......fullback? Really worried about that? And most defenses are fine with making you go 12 plays to get a score........which is the way it was going for 3 quarters before Moseley got hurt. I suspect(and hope) that the game plan will change significantly from week to week and we won't see a fullback playing the Z position. I think your last statement holds truth. Pats are masters at adapting and adjusting week to week and in game. If Daboll has learned anything from BB, it's this. 1
GoBills808 Posted September 10, 2019 Posted September 10, 2019 2 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said: True I forgot about Jerome. It wasn't fundamentally integral to his system success and it won't be a key to a good running game here now either. I'm okay with them employing a fullback sometimes but if Josh Allen plays well he will start to dictate terms and I expect he will want an actual matchup winner. IMO a fullback in an offense like ours without a true top-shelf threat at wideout has a function- strong in blitz pickup and keep the halfback clean by being a reliable option in the short pass game. Otherwise he's just an easy read for the defense. No idea if DiMarco is that guy tbh, but I wouldn't use that Jets game as an indicator personally...we had some rhythm offensively throughout the game that was killed by bad luck. If they use Allen's running ability once or twice a game from a 2 back set I think the idea of a fullback becomes a lot more palatable tbh 1
BADOLBILZ Posted September 10, 2019 Posted September 10, 2019 17 minutes ago, Mat68 said: If those drives end in points not turnovers, the defense will adjust to stop the quick passing game. Yep......if they score a lot of points defenses will adjust to what they are doing. 17 points ain't many..........that's not gonna do it. They averaged 17 last year and finished with a -105 point differential.
BuffaloBill Posted September 10, 2019 Posted September 10, 2019 8 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said: 2003 Bills offense was run and shoot? Idiotic comment on your part. They went out and got Mark Campbell and Sam Gash to try to create a balanced attack that they could use just like people here are describing.........21 personnel. When Gilbride was OC of the Giants did he also operate a "run and shoot"? The point, that you so obviously missed in your incessant noise is that none of Gibride’s offenses emphasized TE play. Gilbride was notoriously pass happy in any version of his offense. What was emphasized was QB play and WR optional routes not TE play. This is fundamentally different than what Dabol is doing in Buffalo and different entirely than the Bills current scheme. Yet, you pull a comment out of the air as though it should go unquestioned. Why not simply admit it was an oversight on your part? What makes Gilbride appear pass-happy is this: He runs what everyone considers a "quarterback-friendly" offense that puts a lot of responsibility on the receivers and control in the quarterbacks' hands. They throw because they can. And it works. "A lot is asked of the quarterback," Carr says. "You've got the freedom to do pretty much whatever you want. The playbook's open to you. You've got to be on your game. But if you are, it's a great thing."
BADOLBILZ Posted September 11, 2019 Posted September 11, 2019 1 minute ago, BuffaloBill said: The point, that you so obviously missed in your incessant noise is that none of Gibride’s offenses emphasized TE play. Gilbride was notoriously pass happy in any version of his offense. What was emphasized was QB play and WR optional routes not TE play. This is fundamentally different than what Dabol is doing in Buffalo and different entirely than the Bills current scheme. Yet, you pull a comment out of the air as though it should go unquestioned. Why not simply admit it was an oversight on your part? What makes Gilbride appear pass-happy is this: He runs what everyone considers a "quarterback-friendly" offense that puts a lot of responsibility on the receivers and control in the quarterbacks' hands. They throw because they can. And it works. "A lot is asked of the quarterback," Carr says. "You've got the freedom to do pretty much whatever you want. The playbook's open to you. You've got to be on your game. But if you are, it's a great thing." You literally called the 2003 Bills offense we are discussing the "run and shoot". I've seen some dumb things said on this board but that might take the cake. Again.......they went out and got Mark Campbell and Sam Gash to play 21 personnel as their primary and they ran a lot of stuff that looked like what we saw yesterday. And by midseason fans were madder than Buddy Ryan when Gilbride WAS running the R&S.
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