Josh Allen's "awful" 1st half...THIS is the article to read

[Pokebball]

3 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

I will respectfully disagree.  I have said here many times, and some disagree, that there is a difference between accuracy and precision.  The pass that was the pick 6 is a perfect example.  It was accurate, it hit the WR in the hands.  Accuracy is how close you are to a given target, , and by any measure that pass was accurate.  It could have been more precise, i.e. hitting a specific spot.  Now from my measure that throw could have been maybe 4 inches more to the left.  But I'm sorry, NFL WR's who get hit right in the hands (and the pass was low, where it should have been away from the defender)  get paid to catch that pass.  To somehow conflate that with some of the terrible Peterman picks is just looking to be overly negative, in my opinion.

 

The bad snap.  Snaps are between a C and QB.  It looked  to me (and to Gannon) that the snap was on the C. But again to place all the blame on Allen when, at the least, a poor snap involves both parties. 

 

The other pick.  A tipped ball which is a crap shoot.  And the other fumble that was on him as a said above.

 

Three fo the four issues were not truly his, but if you watch the half objectively you see that the team was moving very well offensively, and some dumb luck and dumb penalties such as Feliciano kept them from scoring.  Your conclusion that he was Petermanesque, that it was one of the worst halves of football ever by a Bills QB, and so on, is just over the top.  I go back to 1960 with this team and there have been plenty of QBs that have had worse halves.  If you can, go back and watch the replay, look at every throw he made, then tell me he was inaccurate and so on.  If you're being objective you'll find he wasn't.

I agree with you that the pass to Beasely was clearly inside the radius.  It was a tough pass and catch in the circumstance.  The fact that an interception was the result of that play was highly unlikely.  We're giving it way too much time and energy.

[RoyBatty is alive]

6 hours ago, RobbRiddick said:

As I've said 100 times, Allen will make errant throws every game. So long as he offsets a bad int in a game with 2 or 3 td passes, who gives a *****? 

 

I would tend to agree but I cant recall any "most errant" throws Sunday, were some off, yes for sure

[John from Riverside]

Tony Romo threw 5 real interceptions in a game......and came back to beat us

 

I am not saying ball control is not important it def is.......but the ability to win games down...in someone elses house.....also cannot be overstated.

[RoyBatty is alive]

1 minute ago, John from Riverside said:

Tony Romo threw 5 real interceptions in a game......and came back to beat us

 

I am not saying ball control is not important it def is.......but the ability to win games down...in someone elses house.....also cannot be overstated.

To  win

 

1) on the road

2) vs a divisional rival

3) being -4 in the turnover dept and all at the hands of the QB

4) be down by 16 late in Q3

 

All these combined are pretty darn amazing, especially for the Buffallo Bills and a 2nd year somewhat raw QB

[mrags]

1 hour ago, Warcodered said:

I mean Allen was locked in that drive he didn't really miss going 8/10 and the two uncompleted being a throwaway and a perfect pass dropped by Beasley. It's possible it was off but it'd have to of been off in a way that coincided with reading the defender perfectly.

Like I said. I’m a huge Allen fan and I hope I’m just overreacting. 

1 hour ago, MDH said:

 

Yeah, it wasn't really back shoulder, it was too far inside to be that.

 

He still gave his best playmaker a chance to win a one on one battle which is what I want to see.

Exactly this 

[Thurman Kelly]

25 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

The bad snap.  Snaps are between a C and QB.  It looked  to me (and to Gannon) that the snap was on the C. But again to place all the blame on Allen when, at the least, a poor snap involves both parties. 

 

I think of snaps like Formula 1 pit stops.  In Formula 1, the driver waits for his tires to be changed.  He wants to leave as soon as they are.  The mechanics try to get the tires to where they have to be as fast as possible.  However, if the driver is released before they are properly secured in place, or the driver leaves without being released, the mistake is on the crew member releasing the car, or on the driver, not on the mechanic.

 

The ball was snapped to where it needed to be.  Perhaps it was not snapped fast enough.  However, Peterman left the exchange too quickly and without the ball.  He simply cannot do that.  In those circumstances, the fumble was on him.

 

It's not too different from throwing to receivers.  The QB has to throw to where the receiver will be, WHEN he will actually be there, and not when he thought he would be there based on practice or the play design.  He has to adjust to the actual game state.

Edited September 10, 2019 by Thurman Kelly

[oldmanfan]

Just now, Thurman Kelly said:

 

I think of snaps like Formula 1 pit stops.  In Formula 1, the driver waits for his tires to be changed.  He wants to leave as soon as they are.  The mechanics try to get the tires to where they have to be as fast as possible.  However, if the driver is released before they are properly secured in place, or the driver leaves without being released, the mistake is on the crew member releasing the car, or on the driver, not on the mechanic.

 

The ball was snapped to where it needed to be.  Perhaps it was not snapped fast enough.  However, Peterman left the exchange too quickly and without the ball.  He simply cannot do that.  In those circumstances, the fumble was on him.

We will simply have to disagree on the snap being where it needed to be.  And it wasn’t Peterman.

[Thurman Kelly]

1 minute ago, oldmanfan said:

We will simply have to disagree on the snap being where it needed to be.  And it wasn’t Peterman.

 

Sorry for the typo.  I was getting Peterman and Allen confused during that first half!

[Call_Of_Ktulu]

I rewatched the game and Allen looked a lot better than my initial reaction on the GDT. Just like the Bills I will get better each week.

[VW82]

59 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

Why do we say this.  Because you're being ridiculous.  See my post above, and then see what you wrote here.  You claim he made way to many mistakes and then cite ONE PASS. 

 

Do this.  go back and actually watch the game.  Go back and chart each throw, hen tell me he made way too many mistakes.  Tell me he was inaccurate.  If you do, it will confirm you simply want to slam the kid for no reason. 

 

 

 

I listed only one of his mistakes in a reply to another poster who pointed out a few others because it isn't necessary to write a full dissertation each time you make a point. 

 

Josh had a hand in four turnovers. A fifth was called back on a penalty that didn't impact the play and a sixth didn't happen due to an egregious drop by a Jets DB. I don't think it's ridiculous to suggest it was a bad day.

 

I read your post and I read Thurman Kelly's reply to you. I agree with his take. Further, I don't understand why you think nobody watches the games. I will go out on a limb and guess that the vast majority here not only watch the games but likely re-watch parts of them. I certainly do. I suspect people writing about the games for a living do as well given it's their job and all. The only people involved who are truly biased are us as fans. 

 

I've noticed you quote me a lot to tell me how ridiculous or idiotic or whatever you think I am. Let's remember we're both huge Bills fans so even though we disagree we probably have more common than you think      

[oldmanfan]

13 minutes ago, VW82 said:

 

I listed only one of his mistakes in a reply to another poster who pointed out a few others because it isn't necessary to write a full dissertation each time you make a point. 

 

Josh had a hand in four turnovers. A fifth was called back on a penalty that didn't impact the play and a sixth didn't happen due to an egregious drop by a Jets DB. I don't think it's ridiculous to suggest it was a bad day.

 

I read your post and I read Thurman Kelly's reply to you. I agree with his take. Further, I don't understand why you think nobody watches the games. I will go out on a limb and guess that the vast majority here not only watch the games but likely re-watch parts of them. I certainly do. I suspect people writing about the games for a living do as well given it's their job and all. The only people involved who are truly biased are us as fans. 

 

I've noticed you quote me a lot to tell me how ridiculous or idiotic or whatever you think I am. Let's remember we're both huge Bills fans so even though we disagree we probably have more common than you think      

My apologies for being too strident.  I am referring to opinions and not the person but I should tamp it down.

 

It seems to me that some around here place unrealistic expectations on our QB.  When a pass hits a WR right in the hands, and yet you blame the QB, that is unreasonable. The reason I ask if people watch the games is, if one does and really looks at each pass from this last game, Allen was right there on the vast majority of throws.  Yet he still gets this inaccuracy stuff.  I did the same for his last couple games last year as did others here and we agreed he was on target, his inaccuracy was overblown.  If you watch the game from Sunday I would estimate over 80% of targeted throws (non-throwaways) were on target..  All offseason all we heard is his completion percentage being under 60%.  Sunday was 65%, and what happens?  Look for other things to pick on.

 

You say he had a hand in four turnovers.  That is far from saying he was responsible.  Again when you hit an NFL WR in the hands it is not right to put it on him.  When a guy tips a ball and it becomes a free for all that is a great play by the defender.  And so on.

 

I will refer you to my longer comments a page or two back.  He made some mistakes as all young QBs fo.  But it is becoming increasingly apparent to me that, for some, Allen will never be good enough.  And I can only assume it’s because they were disappointed when he was drafted and refuse to have that opinion be altered.

 

 

[billsfan1959]

11 minutes ago, VW82 said:

 

I listed only one of his mistakes in a reply to another poster who pointed out a few others because it isn't necessary to write a full dissertation each time you make a point. 

 

Josh had a hand in four turnovers. A fifth was called back on a penalty that didn't impact the play and a sixth didn't happen due to an egregious drop by a Jets DB. I don't think it's ridiculous to suggest it was a bad day.

 

I read your post and I read Thurman Kelly's reply to you. I agree with his take. Further, I don't understand why you think nobody watches the games. I will go out on a limb and guess that the vast majority here not only watch the games but likely re-watch parts of them. I certainly do. I suspect people writing about the games for a living do as well given it's their job and all. The only people involved who are truly biased are us as fans. 

 

I've noticed you quote me a lot to tell me how ridiculous or idiotic or whatever you think I am. Let's remember we're both huge Bills fans so even though we disagree we probably have more common than you think      

I won't go into what occurred on each of the turnovers; however, NONE of them were due to poor play, poor mechanics, or poor decisions by Allen. The interception that was negated by penalty and the "almost" interception were not great decisions, but, every QB has a couple passes a game that could be questioned in regard to judgement and a pass or two that "could have been" intercepted. He threw the ball 37 times and you would have a hard time objectively identifying even a handful that were innacurate or bad decisions.

 

For the most part, Allen was poised, accurate, made good decisions, had sound mechanics, read the defenses well, moved the ball all day, and, oh yeah, he led the team on two 80+ yd TD drives in the fourth quarter to win the game.

 

To say Allen had a bad day is simply wrong and not supported by an objective evaluation of his play.

[John from Riverside]

11 minutes ago, billsfan1959 said:

I won't go into what occurred on each of the turnovers; however, NONE of them were due to poor play, poor mechanics, or poor decisions by Allen. The interception that was negated by penalty and the "almost" interception were not great decisions, but, every QB has a couple passes a game that could be questioned in regard to judgement and a pass or two that "could have been" intercepted. He threw the ball 37 times and you would have a hard time objectively identifying even a handful that were innacurate or bad decisions.

 

For the most part, Allen was poised, accurate, made good decisions, had sound mechanics, read the defenses well, moved the ball all day, and, oh yeah, he led the team on two 80+ yd TD drives in the fourth quarter to win the game.

 

To say Allen had a bad day is simply wrong and not supported by an objective evaluation of his play.

On one of those interceptions I think Josh knew he had a free play due to the flag and took a shot.....

 

The almost int on the side line?  I didnt like that one......it doesnt happen a lot because he puts so much on the ball

[billsfan1959]

7 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

On one of those interceptions I think Josh knew he had a free play due to the flag and took a shot.....

 

The almost int on the side line?  I didnt like that one......it doesnt happen a lot because he puts so much on the ball

Yeah, he is going to make those throws now and then. I know I am in the minority here; however, I don't really mind it. It is part of who he is as a QB. He is showing he can take those short throws, but, he is still a guy that is always looking downfield for that big play - and I love that. He is going to have some turnovers wioth that mentality - and he is going to make some pretty big plays as well.

[oldmanfan]

6 minutes ago, billsfan1959 said:

Yeah, he is going to make those throws now and then. I know I am in the minority here; however, I don't really mind it. It is part of who he is as a QB. He is showing he can take those short throws, but, he is still a guy that is always looking downfield for that big play - and I love that. He is going to have some turnovers wioth that mentality - and he is going to make some pretty big plays as well.

One of the things that irritate me is that if you have a QB that takes the short throw a lot (Edwards??), folks clamor for him to take more shots downfield and they’ll be OK with interceptions.  But then when you have a QB that takes those shots, nope.  They should check it down more.

 

That said, Allen needs to learn his arm isn’t strong enough to throw past NFL defenders when scrambling like that.

[RobbRiddick]

1 hour ago, RoyBatty is alive said:

 

I would tend to agree but I cant recall any "most errant" throws Sunday, were some off, yes for sure

I tend to think of the one where he was running to his right and threw one towards the endzone that should have been picked off. 

 

I should clarify what I meant in my post. I don't so much mean bad throws as bone headed throws. Like the preseason one and a few from last year, the ones where you think why they hell did he even try that. But it goes back to my Favre comparison. He had maybe more boneheaded throws than any successful QB I've ever seen (Elway had a lot too) but it was just because he had so much faith in his arm. And also because he wouldn't lose confidence and would come right back on the next drive and make a spectacular play. 

 

I see elements of that in Allen, so I'm OK with the occasional head scratcher because if he tried to eliminate that part of his game I think it would negatively affect some of the good parts as well 

[BuffaloBob]

1 hour ago, Thurman Kelly said:

 

Sorry for the typo.  I was getting Peterman and Allen confused during that first half!

And therein lies your problem. You shouldn’t have. 

[billsfan1959]

12 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

One of the things that irritate me is that if you have a QB that takes the short throw a lot (Edwards??), folks clamor for him to take more shots downfield and they’ll be OK with interceptions.  But then when you have a QB that takes those shots, nope.  They should check it down more.

 

That said, Allen needs to learn his arm isn’t strong enough to throw past NFL defenders when scrambling like that.

Something tells me he will be better at it; however, I don't think it will ever be eliminated from his game. It is in his DNA. Allen is a downfield thrower and loves to live in that 20-25 yard range. As a fan, I am willing to live with those occasional throws he "shouldn't" attempt because, in the end, I think he will make far more good plays than bad.

 

He is exactly the kind of QB I have been waiting for for this team.  

[Wayne Cubed]

3 hours ago, mrags said:

The only thing I didn’t agree with was the TD to Brown when he said it was a perfectly placed back shoulder throw. 

 

I could be wrong, but I thought I heard in WGR yesterday, some with the team said it wasn’t intended to be a back shoulder throw. That he just threw it up and gave Brown a chance at it. If that was Joshs intent to put it in that spot, then great, but if he just “threw it up for a chance at it” and that’s what we got, I’m not 100% super duper excited about it. I mean it worked and we won the game because of it, but that doesn’t mean it was an accurately placed throw like the article states. 

 

In Dabolls presser yesterday at about the 8 min mark he talked about this. They were doing red zone one-on-ones, with John Brown vs Tre White, running the same route, opposite side of the field. White was taking away the deep stuff so Josh and Brown practiced the back shoulder or under throw or whatever you wanna call it.

[GreggTX]

I've been highly critical of Allen and he did throw some off target passes. I also thought he did get rattled into more bad decisions than you'd like when forced to move off his spot (like throwing across his body or not seeing a defender like when Maye dropped a sure pick). All QB's are worse under pressure, but some handle it better than others. Still, most of his passes were dimes unlike last year where receivers had to adjust to the ball so often. The OL may need another offseason to be solid, but if they are just above average, that will really help. I am encouraged.

 

A couple thoughts on his fumbles:  I think his first instinct on the 1st one should have been to put 2 hands on the ball. Fingers are better for grabbing things than elbows. Also, I think he needs to quit with that fake pass/deke move when he's running to try to get a defender to hesitate. One of these days, somebody is going to swat the ball out of his hand while he's holding it away from his body with 1 hand like that. Also, he's often past the LOS when he does it. Just my 2 cents.

Edited September 10, 2019 by GreggTX