Hated the turnovers....but man...Josh Allen's short game

[co_springs_billsfan]

5 minutes ago, billsfan1959 said:

Its the NFL and these are professional receivers. IMO, I really didn't see any short throws that a receiver should have had trouble catching because of velocity, including the one that deflected off Beasley for an interception.

And the quicker the ball gets to you the quicker you can turn upfield for YAC

[Buffalo716]

36 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

You could see Allen making progressions and he was just firing it in there.  I agree - I saw improvements.  Big improvements.

 

Upon watching it in slow motion, I do give Allen more fault for the Beasley INT than I did (I thought it was just a fluke).  He had 3 Jets LBs lurking back there anticipating that throw, so it was less of a fluke and more of "going to the well too often" on that play.  I don't like that play call there.  Allen had just successfully escaped to throw the ball away (scored as Inc to Zay Jones) then had a bad strip sack where his LT got beaten like a drum and he tried to stiff arm him and escape instead of protecting the ball with both hands.  He had (if I'm not mistaken) pretty much thrown that same pass to John Brown on the previous series, about 4-5 plays previous.  The Jets predicted it and 3 of them were hanging there waiting.  I give Allen credit for trying to put the ball low where a miss wouldn't wind up in the hands of a linebacker, but I don't think that was the best play call (maybe on Daboll) or the best read.  Will see when I get the 22.  I think Allen's clock was running fast from the previous 2 plays and he rushed his throw and put it a bit lower than it needed to be.  I'm also suspecting there was a better read (because 3 Jets players were right there, musta been a hole somewhere else).

 

 

I don't take offense to that throw. There will always be guys lurking in a zone.. the fact Beasley found the soft spot doesn't make it a bad decision

 

Maybe take a little juice off it or put it in his belly and we aren't talking about a pick 6.. I think we will see that route combination a lot

[NoHuddleKelly12]

45 minutes ago, Nextmanup said:

 

Yeah but he made quite a few glaring errors that should have been erased from his game by now, if he were to improve with each week.  No?

 

 

Couldn't you make a similar argument about Darnold on the other side? And no one is calling his outing a sign of stunted development, to my knowledge?

 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/team/_/name/nyj/new-york-jets

"QB Sam Darnold (1-for-6 on tight-window throws)"

 

"QB Sam Darnold took the blame for the offensive struggles, saying, "I think we just couldn't really get into a rhythm and I put that on myself." He wasn't sharp. He was pressured nine times, sacked four times and didn't complete a ball longer than 19 yards. Half his completions went to Jamison Crowder (14 catches), all dink-and-dunk variety." 

[NewEra]

11 minutes ago, billsfan1959 said:

Its the NFL and these are professional receivers. IMO, I really didn't see any short throws that a receiver should have had trouble catching because of velocity, including the one that deflected off Beasley for an interception.

Yes, they’re professional receivers and they’ve also never encountered a qb that throws that hard.  You have less time to react when he throws the ball.

 

The pick 6 ball to Beasley.  It was a little low.  If it didn’t have as much mustard on it, he would’ve had more time to react.  He didn’t have to throw the ball THAT hard.  

[co_springs_billsfan]

4 minutes ago, NewEra said:

Yes, they’re professional receivers and they’ve also never encountered a qb that throws that hard.  You have less time to react when he throws the ball.

 

The pick 6 ball to Beasley.  It was a little low.  If it didn’t have as much mustard on it, he would’ve had more time to react.  He didn’t have to throw the ball THAT hard.  

I also think 97 out of 100 times that the receiver doesn't catch that it falls harmlessly incomplete.  (I am not posting my statistical analysis)  ?

[Cripple Creek]

1 hour ago, billsbackto81 said:

Agreed, though I would have liked to see him uncork a couple deep shots to Brown or Foster.

Bills had 6 plays of 20+ yards, jests had 0.  I'll take that.

[GreggTX]

He certainly made his share of mistakes. Some 0of those passes should never have been attempted. He needs to just throw it away sometimes. Thankfully, Maye dropped that 3rd pick!

 

That said, I thought his accuracy looked a lot better than last year when receivers were having to adjust to the ball as often as not. He still threw some off target passes, but not as frequently as I'm used to seeing.

[Logic]

I definitely liked the accuracy on short and intermediate throws.

But ya know what I REALLY liked? What REALLY stood out to me? Josh's complete and total command of the offense. The way he got the team in and out of the huddle with minimal delay of games (I think there were 1 or 2 all day), made checks and called audibles at the line of scrimmage, and directed traffic all day long was a thing of beauty. To do that, on the road against a good defense and a fired up home crowd, in just your TWELFTH career start...is impressive. He showed poise, command, and leadership, and he looked calm and composed all day. Even after all the turnovers, he kept his head about him and delivered when it mattered most.

I know it's a cliche you're all probably sick of hearing, but "Mental Toughness" is what it was. And as far as looking for signs of progress in a young QB, Allen's total command and undeniable presence as a field general yesterday was extremely encouraging. For direct comparison, look no further than Sam Darnold in yesterday's game. Granted, it was his first game in a brand new offense, but still. Whereas Darnold appeared to simply be calling what Gase told him to, Allen looked like he was the one in charge of determining how the Bills would line up based on the defensive look presented. Daboll seems to have complete faith in him with regard to playcalling and decision making.

Edited September 9, 2019 by Logic

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

13 minutes ago, NewEra said:

Yes, they’re professional receivers and they’ve also never encountered a qb that throws that hard.  You have less time to react when he throws the ball.

 

The pick 6 ball to Beasley.  It was a little low.  If it didn’t have as much mustard on it, he would’ve had more time to react.  He didn’t have to throw the ball THAT hard.  

No, but he was throwing to possession receiver Cole Beasley, not his sister Mary Hart Elvira Beasley. Cole needs to catch that ball. 

 

Consider the Bell td, a reception down near the cleats that he pulls in.  

 

It was just one of those things that happens as $#!^ gets off the rails. 

 

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

15 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

I don't take offense to that throw. There will always be guys lurking in a zone.. the fact Beasley found the soft spot doesn't make it a bad decision

 

Maybe take a little juice off it or put it in his belly and we aren't talking about a pick 6.. I think we will see that route combination a lot

 

My only point to that was - and this is without the all-22 so I may be wrong - I'm guessing that just wasn't the best read on that play.  (Yeah, if it had been thrown a little softer or a little higher it would have gone for a short completion.

 

FWIW, here's a screen shot of the network film on that play, just after the snap

Here's a screen shot from network film just before Josh throws:

 

You're right that Beasley has found a soft spot, but tell me what you see (besides the fact that the RT is about to get pwned)

[Jauronimo]

7 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

I don't take offense to that throw. There will always be guys lurking in a zone.. the fact Beasley found the soft spot doesn't make it a bad decision

 

Maybe take a little juice off it or put it in his belly and we aren't talking about a pick 6.. I think we will see that route combination a lot

Most of the time a pass that low is a safe play.  He put it in a spot where only Beasley could get it.   It was off target but i would guess 90% of the time or more that play is a 7 yard gain or an incomplete pass.

[Codyny13]

Really looked like he went through his progressions nicely. He’s def developing.

[Buffalo716]

1 minute ago, Jauronimo said:

Most of the time a pass that low is a safe play.  He put it in a spot where only Beasley could get it.   It was off target but i would guess 90% of the time or more that play is a 7 yard gain or an incomplete pass.

I never said it was a horrible pass. I would expect that to be caught most of the time

 

The low pass was good but it just was a bit off target which led to the pop-up. I still would think Beasley would catch that next time

[Hapless Bills Fan]

6 minutes ago, Jauronimo said:

Most of the time a pass that low is a safe play.  He put it in a spot where only Beasley could get it.   It was off target but i would guess 90% of the time or more that play is a 7 yard gain or an incomplete pass.

 

In this case, maybe only 4 or 5, but the point stands, in general you're right.  The thing is you can see 4 defenders who are expecting the ball to go nowhere else.  

 

I think the design of the play is that the TE (can't see who) is supposed to take a LB with him when he releases, and someone is supposed to be worried about Motor (I think) breaking right, but it was No Sale.  It helps that play if the D has at least a little uncertainty and isn't just waiting to pounce.

 

1 minute ago, Buffalo716 said:

I never said it was a horrible pass. I would expect that to be caught most of the time

 

The low pass was good but it just was a bit off target which led to the pop-up. I still would think Beasley would catch that next time

 

I don't think it was a horrible pass and agree with both you and Jaur that it's normally safe.  I think it had a bit more zip on it than Beas was expecting (happens).  I also think there may have been a better read, but maybe I'm wrong (screen shots)

 

[LOVEMESOMEBILLS]

1 hour ago, Nextmanup said:

 

Yeah but he made quite a few glaring errors that should have been erased from his game by now, if he were to improve with each week.  No?

 

 

As he said as a second year RAW QB, playing in his 12th game, there's still going to be some errors. Unlike several of the top notched QBs he wasn't given 15+ games to sit and learn, like Brady, Brees, Mahomes & Rodgers, he's had to learn while starting.

[billsfan1959]

Just now, NewEra said:

Yes, they’re professional receivers and they’ve also never encountered a qb that throws that hard.  You have less time to react when he throws the ball.

 

The pick 6 ball to Beasley.  It was a little low.  If it didn’t have as much mustard on it, he would’ve had more time to react.  He didn’t have to throw the ball THAT hard.  

Honestly, it didn't appear to have any more velocity on it than any other QB throwing that same pass. You are right, it was low; however, Beasley still should have caught it. He saw it coming the entire time, as he was watching Allen before it even left his hand, and reacted accordingly. He just didn't make the catch. You can blame Allen for putting the ball a little low, but that's about it.

[Buffalo716]

10 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

My only point to that was - and this is without the all-22 so I may be wrong - I'm guessing that just wasn't the best read on that play.  (Yeah, if it had been thrown a little softer or a little higher it would have gone for a short completion.

 

FWIW, here's a screen shot of the network film on that play, just after the snap

Here's a screen shot from network film just before Josh throws:

 

You're right that Beasley has found a soft spot, but tell me what you see (besides the fact that the RT is about to get pwned)

I honestly see a nice pocket that Josh can step up into

 

Something we haven't had consistently for a long time

[Dr.Sack]

Allen was a few inches off on the Beasley ball but I do like the fact it was low and set Beasley up to get to the ground and not take a big hit. Beasley should be had his hands on the ball but some of that is on Allen for not throwing the ball a bit slower so the deflection would not have been as strong. 5mph slower and the ball is likely caught or it gets there 1/10 slower allowing Beasley to catch it in the breadbasket. On the second pick you see Allen stare the WR down (not good) and a DL simply times his jump to get a deflection. Allen needed to look that one off with his eyes, pump fake, or eat the ball and try to sprint to the edge looking for a dump off/throw out of bounds/or take a few yards on an outside scramble. 

[colin]

he looked like he's learning a few things.  I don't want them to try to turn him into alex smith with short low value passes based on quick decisions tho, they need to mix it up and have him take bigger shots more often (which we did late, and it resulted in a win).  that will also open up the d to the run, and allow us to show one formation for multiple plays, and multiple formations for the same play as well.

 

i liked the sense of rhythm and such, just think we needed a few good runs in there to keep the d honest.

 

at the end of the day, we aren't gonna beat the pats without some big huge plays, as well as adding up the gut punches of the running game to get them late, so we should start the way we want to finish.  i think our O in the late 3rd and 4th quarter showed a lot of that.

[SloanBillsFan]

1 hour ago, Nextmanup said:

 

Yeah but he made quite a few glaring errors that should have been erased from his game by now, if he were to improve with each week.  No?

 

 

IDK about that. This was his, what ~12th regular season start? Rome wasn't built in a day.

 

Apples and oranges maybe but it took me 10 years to finally quit smoking-not that I think it'll take Allen that long to become great. I just believe deeply ingrained bad habits take far longer to break and relapses are many therein. He'll keep growing but it's going to take time.