Week 1: The good, the bad, and the missing

[mrags]

2 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

Can't see why Daboll on the bad list. His offense worked all game, derailed only by stupid turnovers. If anything waiting to use Singletary was a stroke of genius. The Jets had no answer.

He shouldn’t get a free pass on the fact they didn’t call a running play until the last play of the first quarter. Or only 4 times in the first half. Or the fact that he played Gore more than Singletary which everyone with eyes could see who was better. Or the playcall for a run up the middle of a sacked defense on 1st and 10 from inside your own 2 and ended up taking a safety. 

 

I get they they were moving the ball fairly well for the most part, but things could have been better and less predictable. 

[Alphadawg7]

11 minutes ago, mrags said:

He shouldn’t get a free pass on the fact they didn’t call a running play until the last play of the first quarter. Or only 4 times in the first half. Or the fact that he played Gore more than Singletary which everyone with eyes could see who was better. Or the playcall for a run up the middle of a sacked defense on 1st and 10 from inside your own 2 and ended up taking a safety. 

 

I get they they were moving the ball fairly well for the most part, but things could have been better and less predictable. 

 

This was exactly why he made my list, good post

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

1 hour ago, 1ManRaid said:

 

Yeah, the pick six and safety weren't on the Bills D, but what game were you watching where the Jets scored a field goal?

Brain fart I guess 

 

1 hour ago, Patrick_Duffy said:

Probably not. It must have been too long of a post and some may have "skimmed" over it and missed that part. lol, my guess anyways, or yeah it's the other.

 I read it.  

 

Mostly

 

? 

 

I selected Zay because he is what he was in  season 2  yesterday. 

 

What more do you expect from him?   

 

I have said I believe the Foster love is overrated because of Zay. 

 

That hasn't  in 1 game  

[PromoTheRobot]

1 hour ago, mrags said:

He shouldn’t get a free pass on the fact they didn’t call a running play until the last play of the first quarter. Or only 4 times in the first half. Or the fact that he played Gore more than Singletary which everyone with eyes could see who was better. Or the playcall for a run up the middle of a sacked defense on 1st and 10 from inside your own 2 and ended up taking a safety. 

 

I get they they were moving the ball fairly well for the most part, but things could have been better and less predictable. 

 

Last week: Bills need to pass more. Too conservative!

 

This week: Bills pass too much.

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

5 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

How many more excuses are we going to make for all the holdover WRs no showing in a football game?  Serious question, they never end.

 

What is Zay and the other two supposed to do, follow Brown down the field and jump in front of him to make the catch.  If Allen is only throwing to Brown then so it goes.  You said he was targeted 5 times and caught two.  Were the other three right in his hands and should have been easy catches

[mrags]

49 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

Last week: Bills need to pass more. Too conservative!

 

This week: Bills pass too much.

You’ll never hear me say they need to pass more or run more. But yesterday’s game plan was not good. At least it wasn’t after they turned the hall over the first few times. They should have slowed it down and ran a little to get a groove going. 

[Alphadawg7]

51 minutes ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

 

What is Zay and the other two supposed to do, follow Brown down the field and jump in front of him to make the catch.  If Allen is only throwing to Brown then so it goes.  You said he was targeted 5 times and caught two.  Were the other three right in his hands and should have been easy catches

 

First, Brown had only 10 targets, which is typical of a #1 target.  Not like he force fed anyone.  Second, the coaches came into the game with the plan to throw constantly to start the game.  Are you suggesting they made that plan with no intention of involving the other starting WR Zay Jones?  Would that make Zay the least threatening decoy ever?  Guess that would make Zay a frequent decoy since he has 22 or less yards in more than half of Allens starts since returning in the Jax game.  

 

This excuse of "He cant catch what isnt thrown at him" is not one I subscribe to.  To get targets, WR's need to win their routes and do so during the QB's progressions.  Its a two way street and this notion its all on the QB and who he chooses to throw to is a fallacy.   Foster you can make an argument for since he barely saw the field.  But at the same time, thats no excuse either for Foster because he clearly isnt showing the coaches enough in practice yet for them to feel they need to make him a bigger part of the game plan.   

 

Once again, this is NOT just about Zay as some posters are focusing on.  Like I said above, Foster is a ghost too and that is a big issue as well.  In fact, Foster is probably the single most disappointing story line of the 2019 season so far given how he fell off the map after quite an encouraging 7 game stretch to end the year last year.  I dont know if the toe injury is the cause or if he has just fallen that out of favor with the coaches.  

 

All I know, is that Brown needs help, and that help cant just be Cole Beasley because his focus is mostly the short and underneath stuff.  We need another guy who can draw secondary's attention out there or Brown is going to get a ton of attention.

 

At the end of the day, we are through week 1 and so far none of us can point to anyone and say they earned the starting spot opposite Brown with their play on the field.  Next week is a new week though, so hopefully someone steps up as this week only Brown made his mark from the WR room.  The good news is that the next 2 opponents don't have very good defenses, so the opportunity is there to be seized and hopefully someone does.  

 

 

Edited September 9, 2019 by Alphadawg7

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

11 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

First, Brown had only 10 targets, which is typical of a #1 target.  Not like he force fed anyone.  Second, the coaches came into the game with the plan to throw constantly to start the game.  Are you suggesting they made that plan with no intention of involving the other starting WR Zay Jones?  Would that make Zay the least threatening decoy ever?  Guess that would make Zay a frequent decoy since he has 22 or less yards in more than half of Allens starts since returning in the Jax game.  

 

This excuse of "He cant catch what isnt thrown at him" is not one I subscribe to.  To get targets, WR's need to win their routes and do so during the QB's progressions.  Its a two way street and this notion its all on the QB and who he chooses to throw to is a fallacy.   Foster you can make an argument for since he barely saw the field.  But at the same time, thats no excuse either for Foster because he clearly isnt showing the coaches enough in practice yet for them to feel they need to make him a bigger part of the game plan.   

 

Once again, this is NOT just about Zay as some posters are focusing on.  Like I said above, Foster is a ghost too and that is a big issue as well.  In fact, Foster is probably the single most disappointing story line of the 2019 season so far given how he fell off the map after quite an encouraging 7 game stretch to end the year last year.  I dont know if the toe injury is the cause or if he has just fallen that out of favor with the coaches.  

 

All I know, is that Brown needs help, and that help cant just be Cole Beasley because his focus is mostly the short and underneath stuff.  We need another guy who can draw secondary's attention out there or Brown is going to get a ton of attention.

 

At the end of the day, we are through week 1 and so far none of us can point to anyone and say they earned the starting spot opposite Brown with their play on the field.  Next week is a new week though, so hopefully someone steps up as this week only Brown made his mark from the WR room.  The good news is that the next 2 opponents don't have very good defenses, so the opportunity is there to be seized and hopefully someone does.  

 

 

 

My take on Foster is he's a clone of Brown so do we really need two who do the same?  I'd rather see McKenzie getting the snaps instead as he offers something different than Foster.  I also wonder if Foster may be somewhat of a head case in that he needs to highly motivated (kind of what happened last year with him) when they signed Brown he saw his snaps going away so doesn't care as much.

[Solomon Grundy]

6 hours ago, MDH said:

 

And? Brown had a big game as the #1 target and Allen completed 65% of his passes. How many more receptions were there to go around?

Like Alphadawg says, what's gonna happen when Belichick takes Brown away with safety help? Who's gonna produce on the other side? 

[MDH]

Just now, the skycap said:

Like Alphadawg says, what's gonna happen when Belichick takes Brown away with safety help? Who's gonna produce on the other side? 

 

Like I said in my first post in this thread, if that happens then THAT’S when you complain about the other WRs, not after a game like yesterday. 

 

Jones isn’t a great WR but harping in him after yesterday is over the top. 

[billsfan_34]

7 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

Good:

1. Teams heart:  This team never gave up and kept challenging the Jets on both sides of the ball the whole game.  I am going to say this right now, this teams makeup reminds me of none other than the PATRIOTS the FIRST year they won the SB and upset the Rams.  They didnt have the flashy names, they had no egos, they did no individual intros at the SB and came in as a team.  I know we all hate the Pats today, but THAT year, they were a team that was easy to root for (before we knew what would be coming later from the Cheatriots).  Bills truly are a team first team and they seem to genuinely love each other and fight for each other.  
2. McDermott:  Credit him for #1 above, but I said it at halftime to everyone in the room...McD is a good halftime adjuster and we always play hard in the 2nd half.  This is fact, not an opinion, and proven by how many 4th quarter comebacks Allen already has as a guy who just started his 12th game.  These guys seem to love playing for him and he is already IMO one of the best young HC's in the NFL and will be in the COY discussion this year.
3. Allen:  Yes he was good, I get the 4 turnovers he was linked to might counter that, but honestly, only 1 was truly his fault.  Fumbles were on the OL more than him, Cole INT was all on Cole, and the tip ball was just one of those things that happens from time to time to all QBs as those DL are big dudes.  There is even reason to believe on the overturned INT that he saw the flag and knew he had a free play and threw it up.  In the end, he kept moving the ball, never got rattled, and was excellent in the championship rounds when it mattered the most leading TWO 85 yard TD drives.
4. Defense:  DOMINANCE.  End of story.  
5. Singletary and Brown:  Performance speaks for itself,

 

Bad:

1. Daboll:  I think Daboll struggled to find a groove this week.  I dont care about the all passing first quarter, that was by design and I am good with that against a stout front 7 and short handed secondary.  However, the use of Gore and lack of use of Singletary was a mistake as was a lot of play calls that were questionable.  Quite honestly, the safety was a STUPID call by Daboll.  You got a monster QB, why not just run a sneak to get a couple yards and some breathing room?  Running a draw with an old RB who had done nothing to that point in the game was averaging less than 2 ypc was puzzling to me.  He did rebound later in the 2nd half and made adjustments, so credit him for that.  
2. Gore:  Hard to say what the issue was here, but he looked good in preseason, but yesterday he did not look like a guy who had the ability to start for this team.  Not going to over react to one game, but I think Singletary will be starting sooner rather than later, and hopefully week 2.
3. Beasley:  Love the signing, love the potential still this season.  But there is no sugar coating this, he had a bad game and made two huge mistakes, both of which could have cost us the game.  The pick 6 put us in a hole, and then the best pass by Allen on the day he dropped in the 4th quarter.  Both plays almost lost us this game and the offense as a whole bailed him out or we would have lost this game and either play would have been big reasons why.  

 

Missing:  

1. Zay Jones:  Obviously he made the roster after I felt he may be a trade candidate.  And yes, that prediction was wrong, but Zay validated a lot of the concerns that had me thinking that in the preseason.  His biggest supporters still talked him up, but here we are again, and 5 targets for 2 rec and 18 yards despite starting again.  He did make a key catch in the 4th, so give him credit for that, but someone needs to step up opposite Brown or life is going to start getting tougher for Brown.
   1. In the last 7 games with Allen (the final 6 after Allen came back last year and week 1) he has 22 yards or less in FOUR of them.  I was told Allen and Zay really started to gel last year, but in more than half the games, he has 22 yards or less while Allen has had some big games with Foster and Brown.  
2. Robert Foster:  Where was he?  I saw him on the field a couple times, but he didn't get a lot of snaps and wasn't targeted once.  Same case for Foster...someone needs to step up or life will get tough for Brown as the season moves on.  
   1. I don't know what Fosters health situation is, but as far as I know he is healthy.  Talk about falling off a cliff after a strong end to the season last year.  Easily most disappointing Bill so far leading into week 1.
3. McKenzie:  Same question, where was he yesterday.  Don't expect as much from him, but for a guy holding a WR spot over someone like Duke Williams, they better get something out of his spot.
4. HONORABLE MENTION:  Duke Williams:  I am sure I will get flack here, HOWEVER, watching the game yesterday I could not help but think Allen could have really used someone with a big catch radius who goes and fights for the ball.  If the above 3 cant start making an impact, I think Duke may get his chance sooner than some think.  And I don't expect Duke to come in and make a Pro Bowl, but his big catch radius and reliable hands could be useful to a young Allen IMO.  

 

I think this team is going to be a gritty and tough team for each opponent most weeks and we will be a tough out in the Playoffs this year.

I am starting to really doubt Zay Jones is a 3 WR in the NFL. If Zay doesn’t start getting production I wouldn’t hesitate not dressing him and bringing up Duke.

Edited September 10, 2019 by billsfan_34

[Solomon Grundy]

2 minutes ago, MDH said:

 

Like I said in my first post in this thread, if that happens then THAT’S when you complain about the other WRs, not after a game like yesterday. 

 

Jones isn’t a great WR but harping in him after yesterday is over the top. 

I don't look at it as harping on Jones. You just want that if/then. Kinda like if your tire goes flat, you want to be able to put the spare on and get home. You don't want your spare to be flat too

[Saxum]

7 hours ago, Reader said:

How many snaps did the three missing WR's get? I thought Zay caught everything that he could.

 

7 hours ago, Big C said:

Snap counts for Zay, Foster and McKenzie were low (especially Foster and McKenzie). Just not a part of the game plan, which will change week to week. Brown and Beasley were brought in to be immediate contributors and they did just that. Zay had one deep ball go too far I remember, but he caught the balls that hit him in the hands.

 

Daboll's plan started decent, got really iffy in the middle and finished strong. calling the QB sneak on 3rd and short around midfield that one time was kinda rough. We talk about the Jets front 7 being their strength, don't load the box and try to sneak it. Spread out and do it. Lots of OCs make that mistake, but of course if the OL gets the push and he gets the first we don't talk about it. 

 

NFL gamebook is a good way to get the answers,

https://nflcdns.nfl.com/liveupdate/gamecenter/57906/NYJ_Gamebook.pdf

 

Z Jones WR 29 42%

R Foster WR 15 22%

I McKenzie WR 4 6%

 

I did see Zay do some good blocking / cutting.

3 hours ago, dpberr said:

I'm curious as to whether the Bills rebounded when Daboll stopped running his play scripts and started calling plays based on what the defense was showing.

 

His absolute allegiance to running play scripts is going to get the Bills in trouble (again).  I'm not sure if 14 straight passing plays and running it up the gut from your own end zone with a 36 year old running back is arrogance or Jauron-esque stupidity.  

 

 

It was not 14 straight passing plays - Allen had an option and in each case he changed it to pass.

[Alphadawg7]

38 minutes ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

 

My take on Foster is he's a clone of Brown so do we really need two who do the same?  I'd rather see McKenzie getting the snaps instead as he offers something different than Foster.  I also wonder if Foster may be somewhat of a head case in that he needs to highly motivated (kind of what happened last year with him) when they signed Brown he saw his snaps going away so doesn't care as much.

 

I wonder the same myself.  I also liked how they used McKenzie in preseason, hope to see them get him some involvement moving forward too.

 

Edited September 10, 2019 by Alphadawg7

[SoTier]

6 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

Never seen so many excuses for mediocrity or less.  McKenzie is less of an issue as he just isnt going to get many opportunities like the others.  But Zay now has 23 career games out of 32 (all of which he mostly started) with less than 40 yards.  And in the final 7 games with Allen since coming back from injury he has FOUR with 22 yards or less as a STARTER.  I dont care what excuses you make, we need more out of the WR position opposite of Brown and that means either Zay or Foster need to make an impact.  

 

 

 

Says the dude lauding McDermott for his "half time adjustments" when the offense sucked in the first half because of poor execution not a poor game plan that was changed at half time.   Your "proven good half time adjuster" has made numerous poor pre-game/first half decisions that effectively took the Bills out of games early in several games in previous seasons.

 

[Max Fischer]

Daboll was good. The plays were working and had a good Jets D on their heels. Each drive stalled due to player error not bad plays. Nearly new team, first game, first time OL together, I say it was well called game that got better over time. Excited to see what they got planned for the Giants. 

[Alphadawg7]

15 minutes ago, SoTier said:

 

Says the dude lauding McDermott for his "half time adjustments" when the offense sucked in the first half because of poor execution not a poor game plan that was changed at half time.   Your "proven good half time adjuster" has made numerous poor pre-game/first half decisions that effectively took the Bills out of games early in several games in previous seasons.

 

 

Are you saying you don’t like McD?  

 

Are you also saying McD hasn’t frequently had the Bills playing stronger in the second half?  

 

And where did I make a single excuse for McD? 

 

Lol, your reply really doesn’t make sense to me.  

[HappyDays]

I give Zay credit for making a real NFL catch when it mattered. But I never need to see him on a shot play again. I don't think he's ever connected on one. Not sure why we even bother dialing that up.

[dave mcbride]

16 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Did you NOT read my post where I called out Foster and every WR NOT named Brown?  Lmao, it’s all you focusing on Zay, not me

You do know that Foster has turf toe, right? It has been reported on. It’s a tough injury to deal with, as I’m sure you know (it’s a torn toe ligament).

15 hours ago, thebandit27 said:

 

I don't think anyone said that Beasley had a real bad day (or at least I didn't see it).  He did, however, have 2 drops that hurt the team.

 

If you don't want the ball to hit Beasley in the hands on that throw, where do you want it to hit him that wouldn't be Allen's fault?

 

I mean, sheesh:

 

 

That was a perfectly fine throw. Agreed.

11 hours ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

 

My take on Foster is he's a clone of Brown so do we really need two who do the same?  I'd rather see McKenzie getting the snaps instead as he offers something different than Foster.  I also wonder if Foster may be somewhat of a head case in that he needs to highly motivated (kind of what happened last year with him) when they signed Brown he saw his snaps going away so doesn't care as much.

Foster is hurt! People are aware of this, right?!?

[SoTier]

10 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Are you saying you don’t like McD?  

 

Are you also saying McD hasn’t frequently had the Bills playing stronger in the second half?  

 

And where did I make a single excuse for McD? 

 

Lol, your reply really doesn’t make sense to me.  

 

Of course it "doesn't make sense" to a McDermott cheerleader who accuses other posters of making excuses for "mediocre" players while crediting McDermott with doing something he didn't do.

 

In 2018, the Bills didn't play better in the second half of games except when Allen was the QB.  When Allen was absent from the line-up, the Bills played as poorly in the second halves of games as they did in first halves.   Against the Jets it was again Allen's leadership that won the game, not McDermott's supposed "half-time adjustments".