First Half wasn't as awful as everyone is saying

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

1 minute ago, Socal-805 said:

 

 

They WERE moving the ball well, but if Josh Allen throws up 15 - 25 picks/INTS this season, the Bills will be drafting another QB real soon.

 

 

 

 

lol

 

people are just DETERMINED they're right about this guy, and in COMPLETE denial about how things actually went.

 

give it a rest, dude, really. walk away.

 

[billsfan1959]

13 minutes ago, RememberTheRockpile said:

Just look at the boxscore and ignore the fact the only Jets turnover was on the last play of the game with no time on the clock that looked more like rugby than football. Ignore the fact that it was a desperation play where fumbling the ball was the better option to getting tackled with the ball. Technically you are correct it was a -3 turnover game but for all practical purposes it was a -4 turnover game.

Actually, 4 turnovers by the Bills and 1 turnover by the Jets makes it a -3 day for the Bills. That is how it works. You can argue the impact of the turnovers on the game; however, it was still a -3 day in turnovers for the Bills.

[apuszczalowski]

6 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said:

 

I'm convinced you didn't watch.

 

They moved the ball all day.

 

I did watch them move the ball, but it either ended up getting taken away by the Jets or not ending up as points. Turning the ball over 4 times is not a good thing. No one outside of Buffalo is going to look at that first half of the game and think it was a great half for Allen and the Bills offence. Getting excited over moving the ball on offence while not getting points is a moral victory that I thought the Bills shouldn't be excited over? They got lucky the Jets were able to capitalize on the errors and that they basically played most of the game without a kicker because they couldn't trust him to make a kick.

[macaroni]

Let's get real here four turn overs, a safety, and "gifting" the opponent 8 points in one half constitutes pretty crappy football …. Petermanesque crappy football on the offensive side of the ball …. where the GOOD football comes in is, the Bills did not crawl into their shells and give up, they didn't start pointing fingers of blame, they fought and clawed their way to a victory.

 

IMHO any team can win a game where everything goes right for them, it takes a special team to win a game when things have gone to H-E-double hockey sticks the entire first half.

 

I maybe just a Kool-Aid drinking homer, but I think this team is special 

[Ralonzo]

52 minutes ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

 

Did anyone see or hear what he actually said or did to get the penalty?  They never showed anything on the replay about it from what I saw.

He pancaked 2 Jets on one play and stood over the 2nd one and looked down upon his handiwork and saw that it was good.

[RememberTheRockpile]

2 minutes ago, billsfan1959 said:

Actually, 4 turnovers by the Bills and 1 turnover by the Jets makes it a -3 day for the Bills. That is how it works. 

That's how the boxscore works which in this case is a dubious argument. It's like saying the QB rushed for - 6 yards because he took a knee on the last 3 plays of the game or a hail Mary pass on the last play of a game that gets intercepted. It may say so in the box score but is irrelevant. The reason for the Jets fumble was a desperate attempt to win the game something the box score doesn't discriminate as that is not its purpose. 

[apuszczalowski]

5 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said:

 

lol

 

people are just DETERMINED they're right about this guy, and in COMPLETE denial about how things actually went.

 

give it a rest, dude, really. walk away.

 

Exactly, you want to be so right that your in denial that he can do any wrong. There's nothing wrong with being critical and saying he didn't play well in the first half. I would say almost everyone here wants to see him become the GOAT and make the league say 'Brady who?', but it doesn't mean your not watching if you don't think he had no faults yesterday.

 

If Darnold had that half everyone here would be laughing at the Jets calling him a bust and going on about how the Bills picked the better QB. Brady, Brees, Rogers? It would all be about how they are done and need to retire.....

[billsfan1959]

5 minutes ago, apuszczalowski said:

I did watch them move the ball, but it either ended up getting taken away by the Jets or not ending up as points. Turning the ball over 4 times is not a good thing. No one outside of Buffalo is going to look at that first half of the game and think it was a great half for Allen and the Bills offence. Getting excited over moving the ball on offence while not getting points is a moral victory that I thought the Bills shouldn't be excited over? They got lucky the Jets were able to capitalize on the errors and that they basically played most of the game without a kicker because they couldn't trust him to make a kick.

Maybe the Jets were lucky they weren't getting blown out by the second quarter? Moving the ball was not a moral victory, it showed the ability of this offense to do some good things. You just have to go past a superficial analysis that focuses soley on the mistakes.

[apuszczalowski]

1 minute ago, RememberTheRockpile said:

That's how the boxscore works which in this case is a dubious argument. It's like saying the QB rushed for - 6 yards because he took a knee on the last 3 plays of the game or a hail Mary pass on the last play of a game that gets intercepted. It may say so in the box score but is irrelevant. The reason for the Jets fumble was a desperate attempt to win the game something the box score doesn't discriminate as that is not its purpose. 

yup, Technically, yes, it was a -3 differential, but for 99.9% of the game it was -4 with the last one coming on the final play to end the game. The same people complaining about it making a difference that it was actually -3 are probably the same ones that discount a players stat because they came in garbage time of a game.

[Hebert19]

3 hours ago, mjt328 said:

 

I've also noticed a lot of criticism towards Brian Daboll's playcalling.  I thought it was great.

 

The Jets defensive strength is run defense.  Their weakness is pass defense.

And before the game, their players were throwing jabs at Josh Allen, saying they just needed to "make him play quarterback."

 

The pass-heavy approach was the right one.  And if not for the dumb mistakes that killed our drives and kept points off the board, everybody would be praising Daboll this morning.  He can't control everything.

 

How do you think there were such huge holes in second half...the passing softened them up 

[apuszczalowski]

3 minutes ago, billsfan1959 said:

Maybe the Jets were lucky they weren't getting blown out by the second quarter? Moving the ball was not a moral victory, it showed the ability of this offense to do some good things. You just have to go past a superficial analysis that focuses soley on the mistakes.

No, it is a moral victory because they couldn't do what they are supposed to do and end up with points on the board. And yes, the Jets were lucky too that they weren't being blown out because if the Bills didn't gift them with the TOs, they could have easily been blown out by halftime

[billsfan1959]

1 minute ago, RememberTheRockpile said:

That's how the boxscore works which in this case is a dubious argument. It's like saying the QB rushed for - 6 yards because he took a knee on the last 3 plays of the game or a hail Mary pass on the last play of a game that gets intercepted. It may say so in the box score but is irrelevant. The reason for the Jets fumble was a desperate attempt to win the game something the box score doesn't discriminate as that is not its purpose. 

You are arguing two different things. It is a statistical fact that the Bills were -3 in turnovers, and that is what the poster was saying that you originally responded to. The impact of the turnovers is a separate argument. Of course, if the Jets were able to lateral that ball back and forth all the way down the field, it might have been a different outcome. It certainly has happened. So, maybe, the turnover wasn't irrelevant.

[apuszczalowski]

3 minutes ago, Hebert19 said:

How do you think there were such huge holes in second half...the passing softened them up 

I think it was a combo of the Jets lost ng their best defender and the defence being tired compared to the Bills RBs being fresh from getting very little work in the first half that helped the run game late. 

[Reed83HOF]

2 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

With all respect, Joe....Bad take here.

 

I watched and charted 80% of our plays last year (caveat I'm self-taught, so I'm not the best) and I have to say Daboll's play choices puzzled me at times.  I felt he got too cute and was like "no one will expect us to run this play on 3rd and 8 so that's what I'll call".  That sort of thing works when you've got an O that's a well-oiled machine.  With a rookie QB and scraps at OL not so much.  I'd think it's just me, but several guys here who really know their football, who actually coach and scout, have said similar at times.

I'd rather wait until I have the all-22 and can objectively go through each play, but I found Daboll's play calling very puzzling.  I can see why it makes abstract sense at a high level, but you can't stay at that level for practical good game calling with the actual personnel you've got on the field, both sides.

 

And I and several others with that view have no lasting bone about Mahomes or the Allen pick.  In fact I think the people who look at Mahomes and say "could have been ours" are cray-cray - Reid has his flaws as a post season coach but he's a marvelous play caller with a track record of developing QB to maximize their potential.  The strongest probability is that Mahomes would not look like that if he'd come here and been handed over to Dennison and whoever that was as our QB "coach".

 

 

 

 

The Jets did say their game plan was to not get beat by Allen running and it was to make him be a QB. I am assuming that Daboll & co were smart enough to realize this as other teams did this to Tyrod. If you look at the obvious weakness in the Jets D, it is their CBs and we should have been throwing to test those guys and honestly keep the chains moving. I'm surprised we didn't take more down field shots in Q1 actually. 

 

The caveat is that we should have called run plays as well and not just like 17-20 straight passes, as you have said - you can't put the entire offense on the 2nd year QB and an OL with 4 new starters and an RT swap every couple series. I get the Cheats* tailor something specific for every team they play, but we aren't quite at that level yet. This brings me to:

 

A question that is lingering in the back of my mind is that, (I hope I say this the right way as it can easily be misconstrued) yes I know we are trying to win games, but we are also trying to develop the team as well. I tend to wonder how Daboll/McD approach that line. If the end goal is to be able to change offensive looks based on opponent, you obviously have to start building in that direction, not only by drafting and signing players who can play in multiple schemes, but you actually have to force it a bit to develop those capabilities and cohesiveness on a team - like in the game yesterday. You do this knowing that you are going to have growing pains, but it will cost you games and possessions - how long do you stick with trying to develop your team/scheme and when do you turn that off an say let's go win this? We waited to do this until we were down 16-0 and we left Allen be frazzled for a few series before that. Once Ford was swapped out (and Mosley was out), we started running and had a balanced game plan, which made things much easier for the offense. I feel like this change should have happened starting in Q3 or even earlier in Q2. If the Jets made the PAT and/or the FG - the outcome likely would have been a L.

[Reed83HOF]

1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Um, you're giving an excellent breakdown of why it was a bad throw by Allen.  A late throw to a WR who looks open, but that gives the safety time to get over and make the play, is a canonical "bad throw" in the NFL.  Allen must get it into his QB DNA that he does not have the velocity to beat NFL safeties on that throw, especially when he's on the run without time to set his feet.

Cody Ford was blown up on that play as soon as the ball was snapped, Brown was wide open on his cross between the has marks, but by the time Allen moved around the blown block, Brown was covered, but Knox was open on the level below Brown. Allen had no time to react/read that as Feliciano's man had broken free from him.  He should have thrown the ball away. He made the assumption that Brown was still open and it is doubtful he saw the secondary closing in on him (since he was moving in the pocket around the pressure on the RT side)

[Rico]

Nice 1st post by the OP, then I see this thread is 8 pages long in 4 hours. Even though I’m sure there are some genius takes, I will just pass. 

[Reed83HOF]

1 hour ago, Mikey152 said:

 

We clearly were not watching the same football game...

 

John Brown was standing still wide open by the pylon, but it was a long throw by Allen and he threw it on the run without setting his feet, which game the safety time to get over and make a play on the ball.  It was accurate and his receiver was open...he just didn't have enough velocity on it to beat the safety.

He wasn't wide open, the secondary coverage was already converging on him, Knox however was open on the level below Brown. Brown was only "wide-open" in between the Hash-marks and slightly after he crossed them on the RT side. 

[BullBuchanan]

3 hours ago, mjt328 said:

 

In review of yesterday's game, I keep reading how terrible and ineffective the Bills offense was until the 4th Quarter.  I completely disagree.

Were they mistake prone and sloppy at times?  Absolutely.

But when you really break it down, the offense was consistently putting together strong drives for a good chunk of the day.

 

On the day, the Bills had the ball a total of 12 times. 

- One possession was the kneel down at the half. 

- One possession was running out the clock at the end of the game.

- Then you have the Cole Beasley bounce (pretty much a fluke), which was returned for a touchdown.  This drive was one play.

- Then you have the safety (bad call by the refs), which also lasted one play.

 

That leaves 8 true possessions for the Bills offense.

1.  Drive #1 (7 plays, 37 yards):  They easily marched down the field to the Jets 26 yard line.  Then Dion Dawkins missed a block, resulting in the sack/strip.

2.  Drive #3 (9 plays, 35 yards):  Another drive into scoring position, until the Unsportsmanlike Conduct penalty on Jon Feliciano.

3.  Drive #4 (3 plays, 7 yards):  This was a really bad series, which also included the INT that was overturned by penalty.

4.  Drive #5 (9 plays, 58 yards):  Yet another very strong drive, ended by the botched snap on the QB sneak.

5.  Drive #6 (5 plays, 30 yards):  The offense was starting to move again.  Then we have the tipped pass, which was also intercepted.

6.  Drive #9 (9 plays, 50 yards):  Ended in our first 3 points of the day.

7.  Drive #10 (8 plays, 85 yards):  Touchdown

8.  Drive #11 (8 plays, 80 yards):  Touchdown

 

 

Bottom line... On a snap-by-snap basis, I felt like the Bills controlled the game on both sides.  Defense was outstanding all day.  The offense had some really bad bounces and bad luck.  They had some really bad mistakes at the wrong time.  The narrative is that something "woke the offense up" during the 4th quarter.  In reality, I think we just figured out how to finish our drives.

 

 

Completely agree, OP. As someone who has been notoriously down on Allen I thought he actually had a good first half- he was faced with a ton of adversity outside of his control, and the turnovers that occurred weren't really due to the poor decision making we've seen from him in the past. They could have happened to any quarterback. In short, he didn't struggle because of any of his known weaknesses and that was excellent to see. His short to intermediate game was spot on, he made quick reads and found the open targets. 

His second half was just great. Seeing him get the opportunity to go down and win the game and then doing it made me feel like something I hadn't seen a Bills QB do in 25 years, even if I had. He absolutely looked the part.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

1 minute ago, BullBuchanan said:

 

Completely agree, OP. As someone who has been notoriously down on Allen I thought he actually had a good first half- he was faced with a ton of adversity outside of his control, and the turnovers that occurred weren't really due to the poor decision making we've seen from him in the past. They could have happened to any quarterback. In short, he didn't struggle because of any of his known weaknesses and that was excellent to see. His short to intermediate game was spot on, he made quick reads and found the open targets. 

His second half was just great. Seeing him get the opportunity to go down and win the game and then doing it made me feel like something I hadn't seen a Bills QB do in 25 years, even if I had. He absolutely looked the part.

 

Glad to see you coming around, BB.

 

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

3 hours ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

Allen ran the offense. This is the NFL. They are given multiple plays in the huddle, and then Allen makes the decisions.  Those passes were the decisions Allen made. 

 

They were smart too. First, Allen moved the ball at will. Second, the Jets were daring him to pass, giving him those pass-friendly looks.  

 

Have you heard this  -   Not many QBs call their own plays on an every down basis.

 

Very few QB's have the flexibility of calling their own plays.    

IF they do... That means the coaches have faith in their QB.  

 

I think this was more than switching from a planned run to a pass or vise versa.

 

2 hours ago, billsfan1959 said:

If I am not mistaken, Mosley tackled Allen and, while on top of him, started pointing his finger into Allen's facemask and talking trash. Feliciano came to Allen's defense and received the penalty.

 

Edit: My mistake. Singletary came to Allen's defense. It was the same play that Mosley was taunting Allen. However, Feliciano pancaked a Jets defender and then stood over him taunting him. Same behavior by both, Feliciano gets a penalty - Mosley does not.

 

He was taunting Josh while the Bills got a taunting call penalty !!!!

 

 blind Refs 

Edited September 9, 2019 by SlimShady'sGhost