Bill from NYC Posted September 17, 2019 Posted September 17, 2019 1 hour ago, thebandit27 said: I want your boy Ruggs on this roster right now! Keep watching Davonta Smith. 1
EasternOHBillsFan Posted September 17, 2019 Posted September 17, 2019 10 hours ago, Bad Things said: Judge Judy? What are you, a middle aged housewife? When did I tell someone they couldn't say what they were saying? I was just calling them a bunch of whining babies. (Not that you would know what one of those are, eh?) You can't whine like a baby about whining babies and actually think that's legit... so this isn't your board solely, so get over it and quit being a hypocrite.
GG Posted September 17, 2019 Posted September 17, 2019 2 hours ago, Distorted One said: For the life of me I cannot figure out why some people can't understand what Star's role is on the d-line. Why does he have to look like a superstar? He's not going to have any stats worth mentioning because that's not what he does. Yet you all keep beating that to death as if (nearly any) stats mean something with him. He has a role and he plays it pretty well IMO. You really think Beane and McD would overpay that much for a guy who can't do his job? I think we've seen by now that they will not do that. And don't give me the Carolina connection crap. They're not going to waste valuable cap room over nostalgia with anyone. Star is going to get pushed around a bunch. He's supposed to take on those big dogs so the other DT can get penetration. I clearly recall several years of big 99 getting pushed around quite a bit. In fact, I can still clearly recall a ton of plays in which the opposing RB broke a big run up the gut and big softy 99 being driven totally sideways like he was 100 pounds, not 350 or whatever he is. Seriously, he was much more responsible for a many of those huge runs up the middle than most fans realize. I started noticing it about 5 years ago or so. So when I'd see replays of those d-killer runs, I'd pay attention to big fluffer 99 (he's hard to miss). I guess it's just a real mystery why we don't really see those game killer runs right up the middle anymore these days. Hmmm....big butt 99 is gone and, hmmm....Star is in there now.....and, well, we don't really see a lot of those anymore do we? Hmmm? Maybe there's a connection there? But so many were so in love with Marcel they just won't admit or won't see that he's the problem a lot of the times. I'll admit Star isn't Ted Washington or the Williams boys we had awhile ago (I miss those days just for the great DT's). But he's pretty decent at what he does. The D would never, ever be as dominant as they are if he weren't. Try watching a whole game of his or a few. Everyone has a bad day at the office. Give the guy a break for a few bad plays. He's up against some big and talented o-linemen every week. He ain't the best but he also ain't the worst. F the stats. They're meaningless most of the time anyway and especially at the nosetackle position. Far from me to defend BADOL, but his take on Star is spot on so far this year. He gets neutralized far too easy. On one egregious play he got pushed back so badly it looked like he was wearing sneakers on ice. I think that teams are realizing that he doesn't need a double team, which spells bad news for Oliver. That doesn't mean that the obvious response is that Bills should never have traded Dareus. Looking at Jags game tape reveals the bad-habit Marcel whose performance doesn't look too much different from Star's, and you can't discount Star's positive influence in the locker room culture vs Marcel's. I also wouldn't discount McD looking at the practice squad to improve the interior line and for Star to develop a season ending injury. Bills can cut ties with him after the season with a post-June designation and walk away from the contract after paying all his guarantees through this year. He can also agree to the paycut similar to the one Dareus took to stay with Jags this year.
Royale with Cheese Posted September 17, 2019 Posted September 17, 2019 Just now, GG said: Far from me to defend BADOL, but his take on Star is spot on so far this year. He gets neutralized far too easy. On one egregious play he got pushed back so badly it looked like he was wearing sneakers on ice. I think that teams are realizing that he doesn't need a double team, which spells bad news for Oliver. That doesn't mean that the obvious response is that Bills should never have traded Dareus. Looking at Jags game tape reveals the bad-habit Marcel whose performance doesn't look too much different from Star's, and you can't discount Star's positive influence in the locker room culture vs Marcel's. I also wouldn't discount McD looking at the practice squad to improve the interior line and for Star to develop a season ending injury. Bills can cut ties with him after the season with a post-June designation and walk away from the contract after paying all his guarantees through this year. He can also agree to the paycut similar to the one Dareus took to stay with Jags this year. I've been watching our interior line all year, mostly because of Oliver and he's been getting double teammed most of the year. He's the guy that can wreck a play and who they are focusing on. From the very first play of the year.
BADOLBILZ Posted September 17, 2019 Posted September 17, 2019 4 hours ago, Distorted One said: Thanks for pointing that out but I wasn't referring to his post in particular for that. When Star got here that's all anyone would talk about. Even the press talking heads. Meaningless for nosetackles unless you have an absolute stud that's a tackling and sacking machine. We don't see those that much. You certainly couldn't measure big Ted Washington's contributions in stats. Star Lotulelei is not a nose tackle..........you are so off base with your response to this discussion I don't even know where to begin. In the base defense there is a DT that's lined up in a position that is designed to draw a double team schematically.......between the center and guard NOT over the center trying to absorb blocks and clog the middle like a NT........but that DT is still expected to create some penetration and plays shooting that gap. The 3 tech(Oliver) is typically so far offset toward the tackle that double teaming him is very difficult schematically.........that's the point of the alignment.........to create forced one-on-ones for the penetrating 3T. I know this is all way above your understanding if you believe that this is some kind of 34 defense with a NT........ but regardless Lotulelei isn't even doing a good job of tying up blockers and holding his ground if he WERE a NT. He's neither disengaging to assist with tackles as he's being paid to do in this defense nor is he even standing up double teams and clogging running lanes.
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted September 17, 2019 Posted September 17, 2019 They’ll either figure it out at tackle or they’ll just have a decent blue chip guard for 3-4 years. Either way good shot that he will be one of the Bills best 5 as he learns.
Apocalypse Nuts Posted September 17, 2019 Posted September 17, 2019 (edited) 6 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said: I know this is all way above your understanding if you believe that this is some kind of 34 defense with a NT........ but regardless Lotulelei isn't even doing a good job of tying up blockers and holding his ground if he WERE a NT. He's neither disengaging to assist with tackles as he's being paid to do in this defense nor is he even standing up double teams and clogging running lanes. No crap diphead. You need to check yourself before you come at me like this. You don't know me. I never, never said this was a 3-4 D. I'm perfectly aware that it's not. So don't put words into my mouth. Your "explanation" up here is exactly what I was talking about. I was comparing players not systems. And the 3-4 is a 4-3 in all practicality a good portion of the time. Or very close to it. But thanks for the correction. I may have a detail or two wrong but don't come at me with this tone and high and mighty BS. I don't know you and you don't know me. You need to keep it that way. (And I'm not some stupid internet tough-guy that only talks smack online behind his keyboard. If you met me in person wouldn't !@#$ with me.) Edited September 17, 2019 by Distorted One 1
Apocalypse Nuts Posted September 17, 2019 Posted September 17, 2019 8 hours ago, GG said: Far from me to defend BADOL, but his take on Star is spot on so far this year. He gets neutralized far too easy. On one egregious play he got pushed back so badly it looked like he was wearing sneakers on ice. I think that teams are realizing that he doesn't need a double team, which spells bad news for Oliver. That doesn't mean that the obvious response is that Bills should never have traded Dareus. Looking at Jags game tape reveals the bad-habit Marcel whose performance doesn't look too much different from Star's, and you can't discount Star's positive influence in the locker room culture vs Marcel's. I also wouldn't discount McD looking at the practice squad to improve the interior line and for Star to develop a season ending injury. Bills can cut ties with him after the season with a post-June designation and walk away from the contract after paying all his guarantees through this year. He can also agree to the paycut similar to the one Dareus took to stay with Jags this year. I'm not saying you're entirely wrong. I may be off a little based on my limited observations of him in particular (though I pay a lot of attention to the D line). And in the spirit of full disclosure I'm having a manic day so I go off on things like this without all my facts sometimes. Though at the time of writing you'd never know it. I go back later and realize I'm a dummy. No problem. Not always but often enough to admit it. I really just don't see why McBeane would spend so much on him to sign. They have to know how bad he allegedly is already. Makes no sense. Beane is too frugal for that. (Trent Murphy aside - jury's still out on that one but we're seeing some good signs). If the depth chart move does happen I'll eat my crow fried with some cornbread.
3rdand12 Posted September 18, 2019 Posted September 18, 2019 (edited) On 9/15/2019 at 5:04 PM, Reed83HOF said: You're an idiot Open your eyes, he played like crap and needs a lot of work on his feet. We will continue to look for a RT. Please explain how he didn't look bad and why he looked good in your eyes. We are all waiting for your insight... did i say he played well? and you're spelling is atrocious it goes like this your and idiot. thanks for the commentary about my perception. Always look forward to the insight of others on my person and reading well beyond my words. Kids a rook everyone knew he was raw. get off my lawn 13 hours ago, Bob in STL said: This line is a year or two away from being a beast. Depends on Dawkins more than Cody. If Dawkins is a strong LT then leave him, otherwise switch him to RT and draft to find a LT. Nseehke is your gameday backup swing tackle. Cody then has to beat out Feliciano to get the RG spot. Feliciano becomes a valuable gameday C/G back up. Spain and Morse are set for now. If Dawkins is solid at LT then you draft looking for a RT. not bad Bob. Bills first honest effort on the O line was this year. Been decades. I do like the direction McBeanes are headed. and i do not expect them to settle. Ford is my type of Bill though !! Hope he progresses steadily. sure feels like a guard though Edited September 18, 2019 by 3rdand12
Reed83HOF Posted September 18, 2019 Author Posted September 18, 2019 3 minutes ago, 3rdand12 said: did i say he played well? and you're spelling is atrocious it goes like this your and idiot. thanks for the commentary about my perception. Always look forward to the insight of others on my person and reading well beyond my words. Kids a rook everyone knew he was raw. get off my lawn you're spelling
3rdand12 Posted September 18, 2019 Posted September 18, 2019 14 minutes ago, Reed83HOF said: you're spelling Luv ya man
Reed83HOF Posted September 18, 2019 Author Posted September 18, 2019 8 minutes ago, 3rdand12 said: Luv ya man ?
vincec Posted September 18, 2019 Posted September 18, 2019 (edited) You can't build an entire offensive line in one off-season. They were horrible last season and the Bills basically started from scratch with 4 new starters. Even the one holdover, Dawkins, isn't exactly an all-pro. It's going to take a couple more off-seasons to solidify the OL, assuming that they continue to work on it. Cody Ford is just a rookie and he may develop into a starter, but they're going to bring in other OTs to compete with him (and Dawkins.) Edited September 18, 2019 by vincec
thebandit27 Posted September 18, 2019 Posted September 18, 2019 12 hours ago, Distorted One said: I really just don't see why McBeane would spend so much on him to sign. They have to know how bad he allegedly is already. Makes no sense. Beane is too frugal for that. (Trent Murphy aside - jury's still out on that one but we're seeing some good signs). If the depth chart move does happen I'll eat my crow fried with some cornbread. Pretty simple as far as I understand it: 1) he was a FA at a need position 2) he's a guy that they knew they had the inside track to get 3) he's a fit from a culture perspective I may not agree with that approach, but that's certainly the thinking. 2 hours ago, vincec said: You can't build an entire offensive line in one off-season. They were horrible last season and the Bills basically started from scratch with 4 new starters. Even the one holdover, Dawkins, isn't exactly an all-pro. It's going to take a couple more off-seasons to solidify the OL, assuming that they continue to work on it. Cody Ford is just a rookie and he may develop into a starter, but they're going to bring in other OTs to compete with him (and Dawkins.) To be honest, if Nsekhe were the full-time RT, that's basically what they've done. The OL is fine when he's in there; Ford just happens to be the weakest link right now. 2
Mr. WEO Posted September 18, 2019 Posted September 18, 2019 On 9/17/2019 at 8:23 AM, Distorted One said: Thanks for pointing that out but I wasn't referring to his post in particular for that. When Star got here that's all anyone would talk about. Even the press talking heads. Meaningless for nosetackles unless you have an absolute stud that's a tackling and sacking machine. We don't see those that much. You certainly couldn't measure big Ted Washington's contributions in stats. The poster you were correcting was correctly describing exactly why he thought Star was weak in the game. No one would have confused him with Ted Washington.
thebandit27 Posted September 18, 2019 Posted September 18, 2019 5 minutes ago, ScottLaw said: Yea. Outside of Fords struggles the line is night and day from last season to this point. It's pretty noticeable. I just took a look at the NextGenStats, and though it's quite early in the season for them to have appropriate context, I found the following to be very interesting: - Of all qualifying RBs, Frank Gore has faced 8+ in the box over 56% of the time, more than any other RB besides CJ Anderson (over 68%) - Despite that, Gore has spent an average time of 2.57 seconds behind the LOS, which is the 5th least in the NFL - This is more impressive than you might imagine, considering that Gore's "efficiency number" (which is calculated by total distance traveled divided by rushing yards) is 4.1, which ranks 24th in the league (i.e. he's not much of a pure North-South runner at this stage) What's more, according to Football Outsiders, Buffalo is averaging 5.2 Adjusted Line Yards per rush, which ranks 3rd in the NFL. It's a huge improvement; I happen to believe that, if they want to be in the thick of the AFC competition, they're going to need to go with their best combination of 5...and right now, that doesn't include Ford.
vincec Posted September 18, 2019 Posted September 18, 2019 1 hour ago, thebandit27 said: Pretty simple as far as I understand it: 1) he was a FA at a need position 2) he's a guy that they knew they had the inside track to get 3) he's a fit from a culture perspective I may not agree with that approach, but that's certainly the thinking. To be honest, if Nsekhe were the full-time RT, that's basically what they've done. The OL is fine when he's in there; Ford just happens to be the weakest link right now. Nsekhe hasn’t really been that good when he’s been in there, and to be honest neither has Dawkins. They are working around it by helping the tackles out with the TEs and with the quick passing game but to me it looks like an average OL right now. If that’s the goal, then they’re there.
thebandit27 Posted September 18, 2019 Posted September 18, 2019 14 minutes ago, vincec said: Nsekhe hasn’t really been that good when he’s been in there, and to be honest neither has Dawkins. They are working around it by helping the tackles out with the TEs and with the quick passing game but to me it looks like an average OL right now. If that’s the goal, then they’re there. No, he hasn't been great, but he's been the RT on 5 of their 6 TD drives...and I think he'd be better if he were in the game more frequently than every 3rd series--as a pass protector, you need to get a feel for the rushers you're facing. But like you said, they've certainly been average thus far, which is a meteoric rise from "abominable"...and I'd consider that a full-scale rebuild in a single offseason. JMO of course. 1
Apocalypse Nuts Posted September 18, 2019 Posted September 18, 2019 3 hours ago, thebandit27 said: Pretty simple as far as I understand it: 1) he was a FA at a need position 2) he's a guy that they knew they had the inside track to get 3) he's a fit from a culture perspective I may not agree with that approach, but that's certainly the thinking. I think you summed that up very nicely. Yeah, not the best signing but they did know what they were getting at that position and that at least helps from the coaches perspective. Makes their job a little bit easier. 3 hours ago, Mr. WEO said: The poster you were correcting was correctly describing exactly why he thought Star was weak in the game. No one would have confused him with Ted Washington. I appreciate your explanation but I was just using big Ted as an example not a comparison. I re-read my posts though and I must have thought I knew more than I really do when I wrote those. It just irked me when Star was signed how all those media heads had the same line on him and pointed to the same stats as if that was the entire measure of how he does his job at that position. I appreciate the position of the OP and others though. Maybe I need to review some tape of number 98 before I get so opinionated. 1
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