Cody Ford was bad - again & again he was while at RT

[Apocalypse Nuts]

2 hours ago, vincec said:

Nsekhe hasn’t really been that good when he’s been in there, and to be honest neither has Dawkins. They are working around it by helping the tackles out with the TEs and with the quick passing game but to me it looks like an average OL right now. If that’s the goal, then they’re there.

 

This is what I've been seeing too.  Maybe they need to switch sides.  The tape of Nsekhe in Washington shutting down Clowney is at left tackle and he looked really good that game.  Dawkins doesn't look super dominant so far either.  Wasn't he a RT in college?

 

Ultimately for Ford I think they're working him into the RT position slowly to catch up with the pro speed.  He's showing he needs some time.  Might never get there completely but sounds like he's fantastic at RG.  I'll take that as a consolation prize.

[Reed83HOF]

I'm not hating on the rookie, but again he was not good at RT again

[Watkins90]

On 9/18/2019 at 9:09 AM, vincec said:

Nsekhe hasn’t really been that good when he’s been in there, and to be honest neither has Dawkins. They are working around it by helping the tackles out with the TEs and with the quick passing game but to me it looks like an average OL right now. If that’s the goal, then they’re there.

Average obviously isn't the goal, but that is enough to get wins in this league. 

[ctk232]

On 9/15/2019 at 3:34 PM, Ethan in Portland said:

Spain has been a monster in the run game. He and Morse are the two best linemen. No way he should sit.

 

On 9/15/2019 at 3:33 PM, GunnerBill said:

 

Spain had a really good game today. No way I am rotating him with Ford. 

 

Digging this back up - at the time I would have amended my opinion to agree here - Spain was performing very well overall and was certainly a presence in the run game for sure. I still wasn't as high up on him at the time as I was and am with Morse and Feliciano in terms of the two best lineman, but his All-22 from those first two games was grading out better than my initial belief. To clarify, Gunner, I wasn't advocating for starting Ford at LG and working Spain in a rotation - more so to give Ford practice reps at LG as well as RG/RT, and maybe a few in-game rotations to spell Spain.

 

I say this now only that it's interesting to see how he (Spain) has regressed, especially this past Sunday, in both the run and passing game - and frankly did so as well against Cinci late in the game. Granted, I'm also curious how much of this recent regression is due to compensating for Dawkins at times as well as pass pro shifts from Josh leaving him with odd man/delayed rushes, but the thought of working Ford into the interior more came back to me. While Spain is still the stronger, more developed option for us at LG and I don't think that should change the starting line-up, the biggest criticism he's facing now is the fact that his age may be catching up with him. Joe B even had a point about him in his latest All-22 for the Athletic which seemed to echo these concerns as he has difficulty executing the mobile pin and pull runs Daboll's scheme seems to prefer. But I'm curious how you would both feel about seeing Ford worked in at LG now as well if only to spell Spain at times, or if you both still feel it's better leaving Ford to the right side exclusively and that Spain's current issues are really out of his control?

 

Thinking ahead (and acknowledging there is little to no actual data after just four weeks to speculate on this) I could certainly see Ford's more impactful future being on the interior as a guard versus a tackle until he develops and proves he can handle the edge rush - despite his slower feet, he does show the ability to get to the second level in the run game and still could even potentially develop into a tackle, but I'm curious where you feel he might make the most impact now and for the line moving forward?

[GunnerBill]

2 minutes ago, ctk232 said:

 

 

Digging this back up - at the time I would have amended my opinion to agree here - Spain was performing very well overall and was certainly a presence in the run game for sure. I still wasn't as high up on him at the time as I was and am with Morse and Feliciano in terms of the two best lineman, but his All-22 from those first two games was grading out better than my initial belief. To clarify, Gunner, I wasn't advocating for starting Ford at LG and working Spain in a rotation - more so to give Ford practice reps at LG as well as RG/RT, and maybe a few in-game rotations to spell Spain.

 

I say this now only that it's interesting to see how he (Spain) has regressed, especially this past Sunday, in both the run and passing game - and frankly did so as well against Cinci late in the game. Granted, I'm also curious how much of this recent regression is due to compensating for Dawkins at times as well as pass pro shifts from Josh leaving him with odd man/delayed rushes, but the thought of working Ford into the interior more came back to me. While Spain is still the stronger, more developed option for us at LG and I don't think that should change the starting line-up, the biggest criticism he's facing now is the fact that his age may be catching up with him. Joe B even had a point about him in his latest All-22 for the Athletic which seemed to echo these concerns as he has difficulty executing the mobile pin and pull runs Daboll's scheme seems to prefer. But I'm curious how you would both feel about seeing Ford worked in at LG now as well if only to spell Spain at times, or if you both still feel it's better leaving Ford to the right side exclusively and that Spain's current issues are really out of his control?

 

Thinking ahead (and acknowledging there is little to no actual data after just four weeks to speculate on this) I could certainly see Ford's more impactful future being on the interior as a guard versus a tackle until he develops and proves he can handle the edge rush - despite his slower feet, he does show the ability to get to the second level in the run game and still could even potentially develop into a tackle, but I'm curious where you feel he might make the most impact now and for the line moving forward?

 

Nope. Spain remains our best lineman. He wasn't as dominant on Sunday but he was dominant against the Giants and very good at Cincy. No way I am benching him or even spelling him. 

[Ethan in Cleveland]

I think this thread can be summed up by saying the line is average and when facing a top DL (Cinci) and arguably the best defense in 2019 they got a bit exposed.  Doesn't mean that they can;t get better as the season progresses, nor does it mean they shouldn't keep adjusting the pieces.  Dawkins is an average LT.  That is just the truth.  He will get paid like a top 10 tackle.  The Bills need to ask themselves do they overpay knowing they have the cap room and cap flexibility in the future (can cut Murphy/Star/Kroft) and by doing so not create a hole that needs to be addressed in the off-season (with someone else's overpriced average LT or an unknown draft pick). Ford's future is unknown.  He looks like a NFL starter at G and maybe could develop into a RT.  

[John from Riverside]

1 minute ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Nope. Spain remains our best lineman. He wasn't as dominant on Sunday but he was dominant against the Giants and very good at Cincy. No way I am benching him or even spelling him. 

I would like to see Spain resigned....and I dont care if Ford is an excellent OG and not a good OT....there is nothing wrong with stocking up on good offense linemen.

 

I dont understand all the teeth nashing over signing Cody in the 2nd....we had NO IDEA what were were getting in these new linemen......Beane doubled and trippled down.....good for him

[Buffalo Bills Fan]

1 minute ago, Ethan in Portland said:

I think this thread can be summed up by saying the line is average and when facing a top DL (Cinci) and arguably the best defense in 2019 they got a bit exposed.  Doesn't mean that they can;t get better as the season progresses, nor does it mean they shouldn't keep adjusting the pieces.  Dawkins is an average LT.  That is just the truth.  He will get paid like a top 10 tackle.  The Bills need to ask themselves do they overpay knowing they have the cap room and cap flexibility in the future (can cut Murphy/Star/Kroft) and by doing so not create a hole that needs to be addressed in the off-season (with someone else's overpriced average LT or an unknown draft pick). Ford's future is unknown.  He looks like a NFL starter at G and maybe could develop into a RT.  

 

Sorry I wouldn't pay Dawkins top 10 LT money. Ford is at best guard right now.

[John from Riverside]

2 minutes ago, Ethan in Portland said:

I think this thread can be summed up by saying the line is average and when facing a top DL (Cinci) and arguably the best defense in 2019 they got a bit exposed.  Doesn't mean that they can;t get better as the season progresses, nor does it mean they shouldn't keep adjusting the pieces.  Dawkins is an average LT.  That is just the truth.  He will get paid like a top 10 tackle.  The Bills need to ask themselves do they overpay knowing they have the cap room and cap flexibility in the future (can cut Murphy/Star/Kroft) and by doing so not create a hole that needs to be addressed in the off-season (with someone else's overpriced average LT or an unknown draft pick). Ford's future is unknown.  He looks like a NFL starter at G and maybe could develop into a RT.  

Actually.....what is really happening here is we have a new OL at virtually EVER position except Dawkins.

 

It was always going to take some time for them to gel...and nobody knows how long that will be.   To assume that they wont be good is premature

[ctk232]

4 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Nope. Spain remains our best lineman. He wasn't as dominant on Sunday but he was dominant against the Giants and very good at Cincy. No way I am benching him or even spelling him. 

Not that Morse or Feliciano had great games sunday either, but I'm just curious why you may be more up on Spain than either of the other two - would you feel the same way about Ford spelling Feliciano at times as well? 

 

1 minute ago, Ethan in Portland said:

I think this thread can be summed up by saying the line is average and when facing a top DL (Cinci) and arguably the best defense in 2019 they got a bit exposed.  Doesn't mean that they can;t get better as the season progresses, nor does it mean they shouldn't keep adjusting the pieces.  Dawkins is an average LT.  That is just the truth.  He will get paid like a top 10 tackle.  The Bills need to ask themselves do they overpay knowing they have the cap room and cap flexibility in the future (can cut Murphy/Star/Kroft) and by doing so not create a hole that needs to be addressed in the off-season (with someone else's overpriced average LT or an unknown draft pick). Ford's future is unknown.  He looks like a NFL starter at G and maybe could develop into a RT.  

Couldn't agree more - especially with Dawkins. I don't have anything against him, but I don't think he's a tackle much less an LT. Just an opinion, but I actually would've preferred him at guard in the interior, but is currently LT at present by default more than anything. Granted, they made him a captain but I'm not sure his play has reflected his increased work ethic they saw.

 

Given 5 of 6 of these guys weren't on the team last year, and where we were last year with the OL, it's a remarkable upgrade across the board. Certainly, this is the short term solution, but I'll def be curious how they approach Dawkins when his contract comes due.

[thenorthremembers]

8 minutes ago, ctk232 said:

Not that Morse or Feliciano had great games sunday either, but I'm just curious why you may be more up on Spain than either of the other two - would you feel the same way about Ford spelling Feliciano at times as well? 

 

Couldn't agree more - especially with Dawkins. I don't have anything against him, but I don't think he's a tackle much less an LT. Just an opinion, but I actually would've preferred him at guard in the interior, but is currently LT at present by default more than anything. Granted, they made him a captain but I'm not sure his play has reflected his increased work ethic they saw.

 

Given 5 of 6 of these guys weren't on the team last year, and where we were last year with the OL, it's a remarkable upgrade across the board. Certainly, this is the short term solution, but I'll def be curious how they approach Dawkins when his contract comes due.

I dont think they plan on paying Dawkins.   I have a feeling you'll see them go LT early in the draft.  Have Dawkins and the rookie compete.  If Dawkins wins they move the rookie to RT for a year, move Ford inside to RG, and Felciano over to LG.     I still contest Ford doesnt have what it takes to play tackle in the NFL.  He lunges too much because his body type is much better suited for guard.  

[GunnerBill]

21 minutes ago, ctk232 said:

Not that Morse or Feliciano had great games sunday either, but I'm just curious why you may be more up on Spain than either of the other two - would you feel the same way about Ford spelling Feliciano at times as well? 

 

Couldn't agree more - especially with Dawkins. I don't have anything against him, but I don't think he's a tackle much less an LT. Just an opinion, but I actually would've preferred him at guard in the interior, but is currently LT at present by default more than anything. Granted, they made him a captain but I'm not sure his play has reflected his increased work ethic they saw.

 

Given 5 of 6 of these guys weren't on the team last year, and where we were last year with the OL, it's a remarkable upgrade across the board. Certainly, this is the short term solution, but I'll def be curious how they approach Dawkins when his contract comes due.

 

At the moment my preference is not to mix up the 4 positions that have at least been passable and sort out which of our two bad RTs is better. Ty has been the least bad of the two.

[ctk232]

9 minutes ago, thenorthremembers said:

I dont think they plan on paying Dawkins.   I have a feeling you'll see them go LT early in the draft.  Have Dawkins and the rookie compete.  If Dawkins wins they move the rookie to RT for a year, move Ford inside to RG, and Felciano over to LG.     I still contest Ford doesnt have what it takes to play tackle in the NFL.  He lunges too much because his body type is much better suited for guard.  

Word. I'm still hopeful he can develop as an RT at least though - the early results don't project well, but he has plenty of potential to grow into the RT role if he works on his balance/footwork. I'd also selfishly like us to prioritize WR in this upcoming draft given the shopping list there, but certainly never hurts to add OL every year if the talent is there.

[Formerly Allan in MD]

He's a rookie who's played four games.

[YoloinOhio]

Nsecke didn’t practice today with an Ankle injury so ...

[NickelCity]

3 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

Nsecke didn’t practice today with an Ankle injury so ...

 

Eff.

[Patrick Duffy]

Haven't gone through the thread, but was he the RT when the Pats defender came through un*****ing touched?  Was just a free run at Barkley and nobody even breathed his way.

[John from Riverside]

49 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

At the moment my preference is not to mix up the 4 positions that have at least been passable and sort out which of our two bad RTs is better. Ty has been the least bad of the two.

Trying to figure out what is going on with Ty...he looked really good last year

[GunnerBill]

Just now, John from Riverside said:

Trying to figure out what is going on with Ty...he looked really good last year

 

Meh. I was never very high on him. I think he is a passable LT. I think he struggles on the right side. And that was my take long before the Bills signed him.

[MrSarcasm]

I'm honestly fine with either keeping him at RT through rotation or moving him to G, but either way I expect progress by seasons end on his part. 

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