LeGOATski Posted September 6, 2019 Posted September 6, 2019 1 hour ago, DC Tom said: But did he use Mayock's preferred gender pronoun? Let's just assume he didn't It's a much better story that way
Hapless Bills Fan Posted September 6, 2019 Posted September 6, 2019 1 minute ago, Kelly the Dog said: Thousands have been killed and millions of fights have been started because of using the n-word. No one has ever broken a sweat after being called a cracker. But they are exactly the same. I think, when we expand to thousands and millions and counter claim "no one broken a sweat", we are probably going beyond the football relevant aspects of a fraught discussion that is so far, reasonably civilized. At least, I can not figure out a way to counter this, except I don't believe you are correct in the second claim.
LikeIGiveADarn Posted September 6, 2019 Posted September 6, 2019 5 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Indeed WELP then He's doing enough so they can't void his contract. This isn't over by a long shot.
whatdrought Posted September 6, 2019 Posted September 6, 2019 4 minutes ago, Kelly the Dog said: Thousands have been killed and millions of fights have been started because of using the n-word. No one has ever broken a sweat after being called a cracker. But they are exactly the same. You're being inconsistant... Either the word has multiple meanings and we have to look at the context, or it's racist at it's core because of the history and every invocation of the word demands condemnation. Also, that second comment is just ridiculous, wrong, and ignorant.
Rocket94 Posted September 6, 2019 Posted September 6, 2019 (edited) 57 minutes ago, Gugny said: He's stopped pretending. Whether he knows it or not, he is crying out for help. Edited September 6, 2019 by Rocket94
HappyDays Posted September 6, 2019 Posted September 6, 2019 Can we please ban ICB tweets from this forum? 1
Kelly the Dog Posted September 6, 2019 Posted September 6, 2019 2 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: I think, when we expand to thousands and millions and counter claim "no one broken a sweat", we are probably going beyond the football relevant aspects of a fraught discussion that is so far, reasonably civilized. At least, I can not figure out a way to counter this, except I don't believe you are correct in the second claim. It's a gross exaggeration to prove a point and show how stupid it is. Besides, look it up.
LeGOATski Posted September 6, 2019 Posted September 6, 2019 1 hour ago, YoloinOhio said: The Raiders are a bad team in a brutal division. They can miss the playoffs with or without him. Don’t get the gymnastics to keep a guy this divisive, who’s best ball is likely behind him anyway. Yeah, I agree they should cut their losses on this one. If they want to try to find the silver lining...it can be considered a blessing that this happened during their rebuild and not in, say, the 4th year when they would theoretically want to be making a run at a championship. In that case, it's like "oh no, this could ruin everything we've been working towards." In this case, it's like "meh... let's cut bait and press forward."
Hapless Bills Fan Posted September 6, 2019 Posted September 6, 2019 1 minute ago, HappyDays said: Can we please ban ICB tweets from this forum? But that's a "Freezing Cold Takes" retweet. You want to ban them too? They're sometimes very funny.
whatdrought Posted September 6, 2019 Posted September 6, 2019 7 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: You may be making a distinction between the word itself and the history of the word that's a bit too sophistical for many of us. It's not just the context and intent of the word - the word can not be divorced from its historical meaning. Neither can the term "cracker" of course, IMO I think the historical context of the word is constantly there- no debate there. The issue at hand is that words specifically, cannot be racist. The are inanimate. Racism is an emotional, intellectual, philosophical issue. It's not inanimate. So we look at the context of the expression of those emotions (including the historical context of the words used) and judge whether or not the intent, or the emotion behind the word, is racist. That's why I am arguing that Cracker, with racist intent, is just as racist as N-word... The words themselves do not increase the racism of the person speaking them. 2
Kelly the Dog Posted September 6, 2019 Posted September 6, 2019 1 minute ago, whatdrought said: You're being inconsistant... Either the word has multiple meanings and we have to look at the context, or it's racist at it's core because of the history and every invocation of the word demands condemnation. Also, that second comment is just ridiculous, wrong, and ignorant. It's both. I agree with you that most racist comments are only bad based on intent. But there is not an equivalency of all things racist. In any way. It's like saying all adjectives are the same because they're all adjectives, but they're not. Punk is never a word of affection in any of its literal contexts. But you can call your little brother a punk and be affectionate, and yet if anyone calls him a punk you may get in a fight.
StHustle Posted September 6, 2019 Posted September 6, 2019 (edited) All you people thinking only "black people call each other N" are entirely ignorant of a large population of white people who call each other the N word as well. It's mostly found in poverish areas or amongst those who do it to be "cool". I would add video here but dont wanna get suspended. Eminem used to always use the word but had to stop once his name grew but im sure still will amongst his black friends. Many white folks who grew up with mostly black people get a pass cause the intention is known that its not being used in the racial slur context. Edited September 6, 2019 by StHustle
Thurman#1 Posted September 6, 2019 Posted September 6, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, ddaryl said: I use to think "cracker" meant white folks were white like Saltine Crackers. It wasn't till recently I found out it has to do with the cracking of a whip. Still going to dress up like a Saltine for Halloween That's one guess about the origin, but there are others. There's one use of "cracker" from Shakespeare. "What cracker is this same that deafs our ears with this abundance of superfluous breath?" I found your post interesting and researched it, and it just isn't clear how it developed. Here's a quote from a CBS article on it's use in the Trayvon Martin case: "The origin of cracker is murky. Some sources suggest it came from overseers who commanded slaves. Others say it derives from a Scottish word for boasting. At The Center for the Study of the American South at the University of North Carolina, Bill Ferris says it emerged in the 1700s as a descriptive term for drovers who used small whips to move their livestock through the pine barrens along the Gulf of Mexico. 'They were basically poor people. White people. A class of people who were landless.' Initially, cracker was not a pejorative term, but Ferris says it has become one, the equivalent of redneck. Its meaning and intensity as an insult depends on who is saying it and who is listening. For example, a white who might not object to being called a cracker by another white might consider Martin's use of the phrase offensive and evidence of ill intent." Here's another, from NPR: "Cracker," the old standby of Anglo insults was first noted in the mid 18th century, making it older than the United States itself. It was used to refer to poor whites, particularly those inhabiting the frontier regions of Maryland, Virginia and Georgia. It is suspected that it was a shortened version of "whip-cracker," since the manual labor they did involved driving livestock with a whip (not to mention the other brutal arenas where those skills were employed.) Over the course of time it came to represent a person of lower caste or criminal disposition, (in some instances, was used in reference to bandits and other lawless folk.)" It's interesting that both say that if "whip-cracker" is indeed the basis of it, that it refers to cracking the whips referred to doing it when driving animals (a career for poor people), that it's not a slavery reference at all. Instead it's a reference to manual labor. And that's if whip-cracking is indeed the origin, which is not clear. As for Antonio Brown, the Steelers say that early in his career he was a terrific guy, very team-oriented and selfless. I'm sure I'm not alone in wondering if the way his behavior has become so very erratic is a result of too many blows to the head. Whether or not that is a factor, it's a sad sad story about a guy losing his way. Edited September 6, 2019 by Thurman#1 2
Hapless Bills Fan Posted September 6, 2019 Posted September 6, 2019 2 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said: As for Antonio Brown, the Steelers say that early in his career he was a terrific guy, very team-oriented and selfless. I'm sure I'm not alone in wondering if the way his behavior has become so very erratic is a result of too many blows to the head. Whether or not that is a factor, it's a sad sad story about a guy losing his way. And on this, I hope we can all agree. Albeit, it's a story about a guy potentially getting paid $14.625M guaranteed while losing his way. 1 1
MJS Posted September 6, 2019 Posted September 6, 2019 10 minutes ago, Kelly the Dog said: Thousands have been killed and millions of fights have been started because of using the n-word. No one has ever broken a sweat after being called a cracker. But they are exactly the same. I'm sure the term "cracker" has been used countless times before violence on white people. Me personally? I believe the N word is far, far worse than using the term cracker. History can't be ignored when looking at these terms. But using the term cracker is still a racist, derogatory term. If a black person uses that term (while being restrained, threatening violence, and using all manner of explitives, no less) and expects all white people to not use racist, derogatory terms against him (even if those terms are worse), that's a clear double standard. And really I don't care that much. If someone called me that I really wouldn't care. I don't feel strongly about this at all. I just recognize a double standard when I see it. And if we want racial divides to disappear, BOTH sides need to make changes to how they view and treat the other side. Double standards need to disappear. 1
Warcodered Posted September 6, 2019 Posted September 6, 2019 2 minutes ago, whatdrought said: I think the historical context of the word is constantly there- no debate there. The issue at hand is that words specifically, cannot be racist. The are inanimate. Racism is an emotional, intellectual, philosophical issue. It's not inanimate. So we look at the context of the expression of those emotions (including the historical context of the words used) and judge whether or not the intent, or the emotion behind the word, is racist. That's why I am arguing that Cracker, with racist intent, is just as racist as N-word... The words themselves do not increase the racism of the person speaking them. Things don't have to have intention to be offensive I mean if there was some natural rock formation that looks like a swastika and people could find that offensive as it brings up a terrible event in there history. Yes intention is important when judging peoples action as racist or not but it doesn't mean what they did wasn't offensive to people. As to Cracker being as offensive as the N word...come on really. The worst thing I've seen that Cracker means was this. 2 hours ago, ddaryl said: I use to think "cracker" meant white folks were white like Saltine Crackers. It wasn't till recently I found out it has to do with the cracking of a whip. Still going to dress up like a Saltine for Halloween And sure I'd find that offensive just like being called a Nazi or a clansmen but I don't think it's in the same ballpark as the N word. I mean seriously this was a word people used when they were justifying their enslavement because they just weren't up there mentally to take care of themselves. This was a word used when they ripped families apart and beat people to death. On a different note I think I'm going to go with Graham cracker
Hapless Bills Fan Posted September 6, 2019 Posted September 6, 2019 https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/report-antonio-brown-issued-emotional-apology-at-team-meeting/ar-AAGUylk Just now, Hapless Bills Fan said: https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/report-antonio-brown-issued-emotional-apology-at-team-meeting/ar-AAGUylk It is apparently not known whether or not Mayock was present during the "emotional apology" 1
Say When... Posted September 6, 2019 Posted September 6, 2019 6 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said: As for Antonio Brown, the Steelers say that early in his career he was a terrific guy, very team-oriented and selfless. I'm sure I'm not alone in wondering if the way his behavior has become so very erratic is a result of too many blows to the head. Whether or not that is a factor, it's a sad sad story about a guy losing his way. Fame & Fortune it affects different people in different ways and augments the good along with the bad
Gugny Posted September 6, 2019 Posted September 6, 2019 https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/27552977/gruden-plan-brown-play-monday-night "Antonio is back today," Gruden said. "We're really excited about that. Ready to move on. He's had a lot of, obviously, time to think about things. We're happy to have him back and I know Raider Nation is excited about that, too."
MJS Posted September 6, 2019 Posted September 6, 2019 6 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said: As for Antonio Brown, the Steelers say that early in his career he was a terrific guy, very team-oriented and selfless. I'm sure I'm not alone in wondering if the way his behavior has become so very erratic is a result of too many blows to the head. Whether or not that is a factor, it's a sad sad story about a guy losing his way. Teammates have come out and said that he was always a me first guy and cared about himself and nobody else. They said if he got money he'd turn into a monster. Right after he got paid he freaked out on teammates who would even touch him in practice and scream that he was the franchise and to not tough him. So no, I believe Brown has always been a complete tool.
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