GunnerBill Posted September 5, 2019 Share Posted September 5, 2019 They can't extend any of Dawkins, White or Milano until after this year - not sure if that is what the OP was suggesting. At that point I would expect them to seek extensions with Dawkins and Milano who will be FAs in 2021 (so have one year left). White is under team control for an extra year as a 1st rounder so I would expect the Bills to wait until the end of the 2021 season before extending him. I think they are the only 3 I'd consider extending from the 2017 class. The 2018 class has Josh and Edmunds and then possibles are Taron Johnson (good but in a replaceable spot as a nickel corner) and Harrison Phillips (could maybe see it if they have phased him in once Star is cutable). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted September 5, 2019 Share Posted September 5, 2019 8 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: They can't extend any of Dawkins, White or Milano until after this year - not sure if that is what the OP was suggesting. Can't extend Wallace or Foster either Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted September 5, 2019 Share Posted September 5, 2019 4 hours ago, Virgil said: The Bills have 24.8 million dollars in cap space right now and no major contracts coming up, including next year. I'm not sure how much we are able to roll over next year, but does it make sense to extend guys before their contract year? I think you already know this, Virgil, but for those who don't, when you have money left over on the cap at the end of the year, you can roll all of it over to the next year. And they will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted September 5, 2019 Share Posted September 5, 2019 29 minutes ago, thebandit27 said: Can't extend Wallace or Foster either Can they not? I thought because they had cut them both (to then re-sign on the PS) that allowed them to. Is that wrong? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Virgil Posted September 5, 2019 Author Share Posted September 5, 2019 1 hour ago, Thurman#1 said: I think you already know this, Virgil, but for those who don't, when you have money left over on the cap at the end of the year, you can roll all of it over to the next year. And they will. But there’s a limit isn’t there? Because you also have to spend a certain percentage of the cap. You can’t just roll it all over every year. It has to be spent at some point. Even teams with the most cap space only rolled over about 10 mil plus. Not sure what that rule is honeslty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artmalibu Posted September 5, 2019 Share Posted September 5, 2019 53 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: Can they not? I thought because they had cut them both (to then re-sign on the PS) that allowed them to. Is that wrong? They are both Exclusive Rights Free Agent s Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reed83HOF Posted September 5, 2019 Share Posted September 5, 2019 on AB? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarleyNY Posted September 5, 2019 Share Posted September 5, 2019 (edited) 37 minutes ago, Virgil said: But there’s a limit isn’t there? Because you also have to spend a certain percentage of the cap. You can’t just roll it all over every year. It has to be spent at some point. Even teams with the most cap space only rolled over about 10 mil plus. Not sure what that rule is honeslty Required spend is a four year rolling average of CASH outlays that are equal to at least 89% of the annual cap limit. It’s pretty easy to stay over that limit due to the large signing bonuses some players get. edit: I said that it’s a rolling average because I’m assuming it will be rolling when the new CBA is in place. Right now it’s just the four year block up to 2020. (Thanks Colorado) Edited September 5, 2019 by BarleyNY 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColoradoBills Posted September 5, 2019 Share Posted September 5, 2019 (edited) 35 minutes ago, Virgil said: But there’s a limit isn’t there? Because you also have to spend a certain percentage of the cap. You can’t just roll it all over every year. It has to be spent at some point. Even teams with the most cap space only rolled over about 10 mil plus. Not sure what that rule is honeslty That "calculation" does not have to be met until the end of the 2020 season and as Barley said below it's cash not cap. 23 minutes ago, BarleyNY said: Required spend is a four year rolling average of CASH outlays that are equal to at least 89% of the annual cap limit. It’s pretty easy to stay over that limit due to the large signing bonuses some players get. Exactly. I also was curious about this and went on Spotrac to see where the Bills stand. Suffice it to say they will be well over the 89%. The rule states that the league overall must be at 95% and it looks like the Bills will meet that too. Edited September 5, 2019 by ColoradoBills 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reader Posted September 5, 2019 Share Posted September 5, 2019 I imagine Beane will continue his signing solid to good players and maybe 1 or 2 top tier free agents. Despite looking at AB I think Beane was being honest when expressed the idea of having a lot of different WR's with different skill sets, like Philly, instead of a marquee WR stud. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted September 5, 2019 Share Posted September 5, 2019 (edited) 3 hours ago, Virgil said: But there’s a limit isn’t there? Because you also have to spend a certain percentage of the cap. You can’t just roll it all over every year. It has to be spent at some point. Even teams with the most cap space only rolled over about 10 mil plus. Not sure what that rule is honeslty Nope, no limit. Yeah, you have to spend a certain percentage of the cap - not each year but over the course of four years. And it's how much you spend in cash, not how much of the cap itself is used. It's complicated, but the bottom line is that it will be absolutely no problem for them, or anybody else with the slightest bit of smarts. And I don't even mean accountant smarts. I mean manage a checking account smarts. For instance, you have to spend 89% of the cap. Say you are way way behind on spending (and we're not, but pretend) and need to spend $80 million more but only have $40 million left on the cap, and it's the last of the four years. You have to spend $80 mill. You're screwed, right? Nope. You just give a couple of guys a re-negotiated contracts with major bonuses. Against the cap, those bonuses will be pro-rated over the next four years. But the minimum spend counts all the bonuses as part of your spend this year. So you can easily spend in one year far more than what the cap is that year. Happens all the time. Last year the cap was $177.2 mill. Know how much the Bengals spent in cash? $240 mill. 22 of the 32 teams spent more than the cap, including us ($180 mill). https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/cash/ It ain't a problem. They absolutely will be able to roll over all of their surplus this year and every year. The minimum cap rule is basically completely irrelevant. Another quick example of how little this rule constricts teams. The whole league has to spend 95%, right? Know how much the whole league spent last year? 101%. It just isn't a problem. All unspent cap space will be rolled over. Edited September 5, 2019 by Thurman#1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Turk Posted September 5, 2019 Share Posted September 5, 2019 8 hours ago, Virgil said: The Bills have 24.8 million dollars in cap space right now and no major contracts coming up, including next year. I'm not sure how much we are able to roll over next year, but does it make sense to extend guys before their contract year? For example, Tre White would be super early, but will command a massive contract. Does it make sense to extend a few years early and eat the deal while we have the surplus? Expiring Contracts in 2020 - Normal Extension time Jordan Phillips - depending on his performance this year, and as much as McD rotates lineman, sure if affordable (8 mil?) Kevin Johnson - if cheap, sure. If Levi holds his own this year, he can walk Quinton Spain - if starts all year and performs, lock him up - We would have competition (7-8 mil?) Isaiah McKenzie - should be cheap Robert Foster - If he shows any of last years form and outshines Jay, lock it up - We would have competition (5-7 mil? Way more if he beats out Zay and paces over 1k again) Levi Wallace - If he has the season projected, sign him. He could see genuine external interest though (8 mil?) Contracts Expiring in 2021 - Would be a year early Trent Murphy - He'd have to really perform this year, 8+ sacks this year to justify paying him again Jordan Poyer - Pay this man his money Ty Nsekhe - See how the year goes, but will probably be looking for long term. If he's just depth again, let him walk unless taking another low level deal Patrick DiMarco - Team loves him, if fair deal, sure Jon Feliciano - If starts all year and has solid performance, lock him up while he should be cheap Zay Jones - either trade or extend, but needs to have a solid year Dion Dawkins - Pay this man his money Matt Milano - Pay this man his money Just bored waiting for the season to start. Also, if this team does what some project, we need to lock some guys up and spend our money the right way before Allen and Edmunds get super paid in two more years You roll all available cap space over to next year 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted September 5, 2019 Share Posted September 5, 2019 3 hours ago, GunnerBill said: Can they not? I thought because they had cut them both (to then re-sign on the PS) that allowed them to. Is that wrong? I believe you are correct but don’t know that factually. Technically it would just be rare that a young UDFA or cut player gets a massive deal quickly - but once out of that original rookie contract for drafted guys I think you can pay them whatever for however long. Anyone good just wouldn’t clear waivers so you can’t game the system with it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted September 6, 2019 Share Posted September 6, 2019 3 hours ago, artmalibu said: They are both Exclusive Rights Free Agent s Yea I know that. Does that preclude you from doing the longer term deal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artmalibu Posted September 6, 2019 Share Posted September 6, 2019 2 hours ago, GunnerBill said: Yea I know that. Does that preclude you from doing the longer term deal? No it does not... Not pressing and gives the team the leverage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted September 6, 2019 Share Posted September 6, 2019 6 hours ago, Virgil said: But there’s a limit isn’t there? Because you also have to spend a certain percentage of the cap. You can’t just roll it all over every year. It has to be spent at some point. Even teams with the most cap space only rolled over about 10 mil plus. Missed that the first time around. If you can find one team that rolled over less than they had, it'll be the first I've ever seen. https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/2019/01/31/browns-have-nfl-leading-565-million-in-carryover-cap-space/38986415/ Not sure how the Browns rolling over $56.5 mill fits in with your idea here, or Indy at $49.1 mill or SF at $35.1 mill .... Compare it to Spotrac's or OvertheCap's tabulations of leftover cap space from 2018. Everybody's rolling over what they had left over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Virgil Posted September 6, 2019 Author Share Posted September 6, 2019 15 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said: Missed that the first time around. If you can find one team that rolled over less than they had, it'll be the first I've ever seen. https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/2019/01/31/browns-have-nfl-leading-565-million-in-carryover-cap-space/38986415/ Not sure how the Browns rolling over $56.5 mill fits in with your idea here, or Indy at $49.1 mill or SF at $35.1 mill .... Compare it to Spotrac's or OvertheCap's tabulations of leftover cap space from 2018. Everybody's rolling over what they had left over. When I was looking at another article, it said only 4 teams rolled over above 10 million, but implied it wasn't much more than that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColoradoBills Posted September 6, 2019 Share Posted September 6, 2019 6 minutes ago, Virgil said: When I was looking at another article, it said only 4 teams rolled over above 10 million, but implied it wasn't much more than that Indy rolled 49 million like Thurm said. https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/indianapolis-colts/cap/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted September 6, 2019 Share Posted September 6, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, Virgil said: When I was looking at another article, it said only 4 teams rolled over above 10 million, but implied it wasn't much more than that You can easily find each team's rolled over amount. Check Spotrac 2019 salary cap rankings. https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/cap/ Then tap on any team and scroll all the way down to "2019 cap totals" at the bottom. Colts rolled $49.1 mill Browns $56.5 mill Texans $18.8 mill Titans $25.6 mill Cowboys $11.7 mill Niners $35. mill That's six over $10 mill and five well above $10 mill. And I've checked each in order, meaning I've only looked at the top nine teams on the list. Don't know what to tell you, man. That article was wrong and 15 minutes of work on your part will absolutely confirm that for you. Edited September 6, 2019 by Thurman#1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSHMEAB Posted September 6, 2019 Share Posted September 6, 2019 Not really about paying Poyer at this point in time. He gets lumped in with Hyde, but he's got some flaws in his game. I like him. I'd like to keep him. But I don't see any reason to bump his salary at the moment. It doesn't really matter in the grand scheme of things because he's not gonna get a huge deal and cap space is of no concern for the Bills. Just don't see a need there. Agree with the rest. I would love to see them add an impact player via trade midseason if things go well. Never know who MAY become available. The roster is solid but missing proven difference makers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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