LOVEMESOMEBILLS Posted September 4, 2019 Posted September 4, 2019 5 minutes ago, MAJBobby said: Thanks you Cincy for Passing the ball to gt us in the playoffs. Never pay a RB, I repeat NEVER pay a RB You may have made the case for the other side with the Cincy vs Ravens reference. Now of course down with little time left, Cincy was passing at the end, but they ran 30 times in that game and passed 23 times. That's not even counting Andy's 2 rushes otherwise it was 32/23. In regards to never paying a RB ever....Team's overall rushing numbers have stay pretty consistent from 2004 till now, it's just the #2 RB are getting a little more of the overall carries(The ratio varies from team to team). I believe the decision should and appears to be is made on a case by case basis. Would I pay a RB like Gurley top end money, heck no? But I would for solidly put together RB like Zeke or Barkley. 1
QCity Posted September 4, 2019 Posted September 4, 2019 23 hours ago, Reed83HOF said: Brandt calling his shot: Yeah, about that Andrew.... Jerry has written the book on how NOT to run a team in the free-agency era.
MAJBobby Posted September 4, 2019 Posted September 4, 2019 (edited) 12 minutes ago, Sunshower said: Elite RBs have been part of a many of Super Bowl teams. Chicken or egg? I think more is more. If Singletary turns into a dominant back, sign him. The better the QB, the less dire the need of a superstar RB, but also the less dire the need of a superstar #1 WR or an all star OL or a Legion of Boom defense. You build a team with what ya got. A superstar QB mitigates just about every weak positional group on the entire team, but football is still a team sport, except each team may be structured differently depending on what resources are available in FA and how many hits ya get in the draft. Show me ONE RB making the type of Money that Zeke is now making in the Superbowl. This will not help Dallas get to or WIN a Superbowl. Draft a Back, use him up during rookie deal. He wants Double Digit Millions yearly let him walk. Rinse and Repeat Edited September 4, 2019 by MAJBobby
LOVEMESOMEBILLS Posted September 4, 2019 Posted September 4, 2019 11 minutes ago, MAJBobby said: Show me ONE RB making the type of Money that Zeke is now making in the Superbowl. This will not help Dallas get to or WIN a Superbowl. That's a bit of a slanted argument to make. The RB position is just starting to recover from the last decade or so in terms of salary. However the top 4 teams in terms of spending in 2019 on the RB/FB positions are 1.) The Pats***, 2.) the Rams, 3.) the 49ers & 4.) the Cowboys. In the top 4 were 3 out of the final 8 teams in the playoffs, including the two Super Bowl teams from last year. The current best of the best seem to value the RB position, including the one team everyone has been pointing to for years as the team that doesn't spend on RBs. https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/positional/breakdown/
ghostwriter Posted September 4, 2019 Posted September 4, 2019 41 minutes ago, MAJBobby said: Show me ONE RB making the type of Money that Zeke is now making in the Superbowl. This will not help Dallas get to or WIN a Superbowl. Draft a Back, use him up during rookie deal. He wants Double Digit Millions yearly let him walk. Rinse and Repeat What if you have no franchise QB or just a very solid game manager? Or what if your franchise QB is still on his rookie deal? Do you still not pay an elite RB then?
C.Biscuit97 Posted September 4, 2019 Posted September 4, 2019 48 minutes ago, MAJBobby said: Show me ONE RB making the type of Money that Zeke is now making in the Superbowl. This will not help Dallas get to or WIN a Superbowl. Draft a Back, use him up during rookie deal. He wants Double Digit Millions yearly let him walk. Rinse and Repeat You literally could do this most positions. And Gurley was just in the SB. 2
LOVEMESOMEBILLS Posted September 4, 2019 Posted September 4, 2019 7 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said: You literally could do this most positions. And Gurley was just in the SB. Exactly, I just saw a stat. In the last 8 years the top paid QB missed the playoffs 5 times, top RB - 5 times, top WR - 6 times.
Hsker4life Posted September 4, 2019 Posted September 4, 2019 3 hours ago, DCOrange said: Yeah, he can handle a lot of touches. That's cool and all, but I can get 3 RBs for far less money that can do that too. I'd take almost any other team's RB situation over the Cowboys, especially considering the OLine Dallas has. Correlation =/= Causation. These stats are purely correlation. Teams only get 100 yard rushers these days when they're running the clock out with a lead. On the flipside, you're more likely to accrue more passing yards when you're playing catch up. I think it’s also fair to note that 44 different players had at least one 100 yard rushing game in 2018.
LOVEMESOMEBILLS Posted September 4, 2019 Posted September 4, 2019 (edited) 11 minutes ago, DCOrange said: Think this sums up my thoughts well: When talking of the difference between Zeke & an average RB Bill Barnwell fails to take other factors into account. If Zeke is in the backfield who is the defense is going to key on? How many 7 & 8 in the box looks are you going to see? He opens everything else up for the offense and makes everyone better. With an average RB the defense is going to key on the passing game making the "average" RB beat them. At that point Dak folds like a deck of cards. Edited September 4, 2019 by LOVEMESOMEBILLS
thebandit27 Posted September 4, 2019 Posted September 4, 2019 1 hour ago, MAJBobby said: Show me ONE RB making the type of Money that Zeke is now making in the Superbowl. This will not help Dallas get to or WIN a Superbowl. Draft a Back, use him up during rookie deal. He wants Double Digit Millions yearly let him walk. Rinse and Repeat Did you already forget 2018? https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/los-angeles-rams/todd-gurley-16734/
nucci Posted September 4, 2019 Posted September 4, 2019 So if Singletary becomes a superstar in 3 years we let him leave?
BADOLBILZ Posted September 4, 2019 Posted September 4, 2019 3 minutes ago, thebandit27 said: Did you already forget 2018? https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/los-angeles-rams/todd-gurley-16734/ He's gone before they pay that $7M+ roster bonus next winter though, right? Drafting RB's early and paying RB's a big second deal continues to be bad business..............the problem is that everyone knows it and subsequently the supply is starting to dry up. The NFL almost needs to create a base pay scale for carrying the football...........you tote it 200 times you get paid like a bell cow back even if you are a rookie on a one year deal. Otherwise dudes like Devin Singletary are going to continue to be the best RB's in certain drafts.
thebandit27 Posted September 4, 2019 Posted September 4, 2019 1 minute ago, BADOLBILZ said: He's gone before they pay that $7M+ roster bonus next winter though, right? Drafting RB's early and paying RB's a big second deal continues to be bad business..............the problem is that everyone knows it and subsequently the supply is starting to dry up. The NFL almost needs to create a base pay scale for carrying the football...........you tote it 200 times you get paid like a bell cow back even if you are a rookie on a one year deal. Otherwise dudes like Devin Singletary are going to continue to be the best RB's in certain drafts. Unless he shows a miraculous turnaround from his injury, yeah, you have to think he's a goner.
NoSaint Posted September 4, 2019 Posted September 4, 2019 5 hours ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said: That is fair. The only context I would add is that he was our WHOLE offense. In isolation, he looked average. That is fair. But, it is not like their was any offense around him. His production accounted for a greater percentage of our overall yards compared to other running backs in their respective offenses. I would guess even that assertion is probably a little overstated He really was middle to late in the pack for production and so was our offense. I’d guess if you did the math he was rarely at the very top of the charts. Maybe in his best year but 2 of 4 weren’t particularly good at all.
JoshAllenHasBigHands Posted September 4, 2019 Posted September 4, 2019 (edited) 14 minutes ago, NoSaint said: I would guess even that assertion is probably a little overstated He really was middle to late in the pack for production and so was our offense. I’d guess if you did the math he was rarely at the very top of the charts. Maybe in his best year but 2 of 4 weren’t particularly good at all. Ok. This is getting to be a bit much. His first year here he rushed for almost 900 yards (4.4 y/a) and caught 300 yards in only 12 games. His second he rushed for 1250 (5.4 y/a) (13 TDs) and caught 350. His third he rushed for 1138 (4.0 y/a) and caught 450. He did this on terrrrrrible offensive teams. McCoy was awesome for us, and there is no way around that. Edited September 4, 2019 by JoshAllenHasBigHands
NoSaint Posted September 4, 2019 Posted September 4, 2019 3 minutes ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said: Ok. This is getting to be a bit much. His first year here he rushed for almost 900 yards (4.4 y/a) and caught 300 yards in only 12 games. His second her rushed for 1250 (5.4 y/a) (13 TDs) and caught 350. His third he rushed for 1138 (4.0 y/a) and caught 450. He did this on terrrrrrible offensive teams. McCoy was awesome for us, and there is no way around that. Ive said he was good but am discussing related to top 5 pay. 4.0 ypc isn’t awesome, especially at that pay scale. His 4th year you left off for obvious reasons. Youve decided on a narrative and keep changing the supporting arguments as I bring up the data. His rushing yards don’t tell it cause he was a great receiving back. His receiving stats don’t tell it, it’s percentage of offense. His percentage of offense doesn’t show it, he’s just awesome. 900-300 certainly wouldn’t be at the top of the list for percentage of his teams offense produced. Neither would last year. His best year here would count as excellent. he was a good back for us. He was not a zeke or other elite producer for us.
Bill from NYC Posted September 4, 2019 Posted September 4, 2019 31 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said: The NFL almost needs to create a base pay scale for carrying the football...........you tote it 200 times you get paid like a bell cow back even if you are a rookie on a one year deal. Interesting idea. I wonder if this would even change the way some coaches approach the games. If Ralph was the owner, I really don't think he would risk paying out the extra money. 2
JoshAllenHasBigHands Posted September 4, 2019 Posted September 4, 2019 9 minutes ago, NoSaint said: Ive said he was good but am discussing related to top 5 pay. 4.0 ypc isn’t awesome, especially at that pay scale. His 4th year you left off for obvious reasons. Youve decided on a narrative and keep changing the supporting arguments as I bring up the data. His rushing yards don’t tell it cause he was a great receiving back. His receiving stats don’t tell it, it’s percentage of offense. His percentage of offense doesn’t show it, he’s just awesome. 900-300 certainly wouldn’t be at the top of the list for percentage of his teams offense produced. Neither would last year. His best year here would count as excellent. he was a good back for us. He was not a zeke or other elite producer for us. Honestly, I thought it was such a dumb argument I didn't think I needed to look up stats to establish how important McCoy was to this team. He did more for this team between 2015 and 2017 than any other back during that same period outside of Zeke. 13 minutes ago, NoSaint said: Ive said he was good but am discussing related to top 5 pay. 4.0 ypc isn’t awesome, especially at that pay scale. His 4th year you left off for obvious reasons. Youve decided on a narrative and keep changing the supporting arguments as I bring up the data. His rushing yards don’t tell it cause he was a great receiving back. His receiving stats don’t tell it, it’s percentage of offense. His percentage of offense doesn’t show it, he’s just awesome. 900-300 certainly wouldn’t be at the top of the list for percentage of his teams offense produced. Neither would last year. His best year here would count as excellent. he was a good back for us. He was not a zeke or other elite producer for us. Here are more stats. In the two seasons he was healthy for the full year, 2016 and 2017, he provided 28 and 33% of this teams offense. For zeke, his healthy seasons in 2016 and 2018, he provided 33 and 36% of his teams offense. Zeke was better for sure, but outside of Zeke, no other back is doing that.
DCOrange Posted September 4, 2019 Posted September 4, 2019 2 hours ago, LOVEMESOMEBILLS said: When talking of the difference between Zeke & an average RB Bill Barnwell fails to take other factors into account. If Zeke is in the backfield who is the defense is going to key on? How many 7 & 8 in the box looks are you going to see? He opens everything else up for the offense and makes everyone better. With an average RB the defense is going to key on the passing game making the "average" RB beat them. At that point Dak folds like a deck of cards. Zeke was 20th out of 55 qualifying runners in the league in terms of how often he faced 8+ in the box last year, meaning he was basically average in that regard. He was behind guys like Royce Freeman, Alfred Morris, Austin Ekeler, Sony Michel, Dion Lewis, and Elijah McGuire. There isn't really much evidence that teams key on him any more than they do anyone else, and there also isn't really much evidence to suggest that teams stack the box against the best RBs in general, as the following RBs faced 8+ in the box less than the average RB: Alvin Kamara Christian McCaffrey Dalvin Cook Adrian Peterson (which is just really odd considering how bad the rest of the team was last year) LeSean McCoy Joe Mixon Kareem Hunt and 3rd least in the league: Todd Gurley 1
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