THE ROCKPILE REVIEW - Let the Games Begin

[NoHuddleKelly12]

6 minutes ago, RoyBatty is alive said:

 

Oh they snuck him on IR did they.  As far as the Bills getting rid of Peterman, they had no choice, for the sake of both the team and himself he had to leave, the waters were polluted. I for one hope he succeeds, he is a "good guy" and I believe in redemption.

100% agreed. Would be an all-time comeback story that not even H-wood would dare take on in concept. I'll never forget NP standing up at the podium every week fielding questions from all types, while Bills stars like Shady ducked out with a self-imposed media blackout during the worst stretches of last season while NP was playing. I always appreciated that about NP. Glad the drama is elsewhere now however, like you said.   

[oldmanfan]

As always a nice Shaw column.  It should be an interesting season, with young guys developing on both sides of the ball, and some vets around to help led the way.  People are going to be focused on Allen as the QB, and I only hope folks realize young second year QBs are still going to make mistakes.  As many as last year?  One hopes not as development occurs.  Still, my one wish for the season and the board is that we do not fall into nitpicking every throw Allen makes, or every cutback Singletary makes of every missed tackle of Edmunds as if it means they're a bust, or every great play each makes meaning they are  HOFers.  They're young, the team although spiked with veterans in some areas is still somewhat young at key spots.  Let's look at the totality of things as we go forward. 

[eball]

3 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

As to your first point, I'll admit to being lazy and using a tired cliche to open my piece.   However, there is nothing wrong with using battle as a metaphor for football.  It's been done for decades.  Beyond that, it's a really good metaphor, because there is nothing in real life that more closely approximates war than football.   In fact, that's why a lot of people like watching it - it's a complex contest between two teams involving intense hand-to-hand combat, strategy and the acquisition of territory, which is exactly what war is.   It's a stylized war that my city can excited about when we play some other guy's city.  We can watch it but be spared the actual killing that goes on in war.   

 

The players prepare for games like they prepare for battle.  That's what "putting your game face" on is about.   It's about getting ready emotionally to defeat, within the rules, the guy across the line of scrimmage from you.  We have rules, like "no knives," so the battle happens but without the killing.  

 

George Carlin aptly pointed out that football uses the war jargon regularly.   The bomb, the blitz, contest in the trenches.  What's the highest compliment a player can give to a teammate?  Call him a "warrior."

 

Marv's quote was about what's important in life, and he was correct.  Football isn't important, and war is deadly serious.  But that doesn't mean that the metaphor doesn't work.  The metaphor captures the intensity of football very well.   

 

As for your second point, where is it written, in the Code of Conduct or elsewhere, that we can't discuss next year?  If you think Brandon Beane is not thinking about 2020 and 2021 EVERY DAY, you are sadly mistaken.   Building a football team is a multi-year process, and the process doesn't stop when this year's season begins.  And there ARE indications that next year's talent will be better than this year's talent.   One such indication is how young the team is today.   If there are no new players added to the roster, the team will be better next season simply because many of the current players will be better.   All the young guys have more to learn, and they will. Josh Allen, in particular, will be a better QB in 2020.  In addition, once again the Bills have more than their share of draft picks, and they are in very good salary cap situation, so they will be in position to acquire new players, some of whom will be more talented than the players on the current roster.   Is it possible that won't happen?   Sure, it's possible.  Is it likely?   Not very likely at all.  The Bills will have 53 players in 2020 who are, collectively, more talented than the 53 they have right now. 

 

The Bills don't "need" to win ten or more games.   They don't "need" to do anything, because this is football, not war.  If what you're suggesting is focusing on 2020 takes the focus away from 2019, well, sure, if I'm a coach or a player, my mind has to be 100% on today and this week, and any thought of 2020 is an unhelpful distraction.   But I'm a fan, and if my focus shifts from time to time to 2020, that has absolutely no impact on how the players and coaches perform this week.   

 

Ten wins or more may be some marker that you think is important, and maybe you think that some consequences should befall McDermott or Beane if the team fails to reach that threshold, but that's your marker, not theirs.   However, nothing McDermott, Beane or the Pegulas have said suggests in any way that the Pegulas have set the 2019 bar at 10 wins.   I fully expect that the Pegulas will view 8 or 9 wins as a positive season, assuming they're seeing the right kind of growth and improvement.   

 

With all due respect, @Shaw66, this retort is even better than your original post. 

[Shaw66]

50 minutes ago, BillsVet said:

 

With all due respect, I'm guessing you've never seen a real two-way live fire.  That being the case, using military terminology is more like hyperbole to get clicks than anything else. 

 

In terms of expectations, I really don't know what to say to the results-optional crowd at this point.  I don't understand why people aren't willing to have big expectations for a team that's been in rebuild mode for 3 off-seasons.  If Buffalo is a 7 to 9 win team this season, how does anyone reconcile this when several NFL franchises have gone from starting a rebuild to going deep into the playoffs in 2-3 seasons?  The only answer is the strategy was too heavy a lift and removing talent to meet the HC's needs was a net loss. 

 

They should be expected to win 10 or more games this deep into the rebuild.  Only certain fans are demanding less results.  I'm sure ownership, GM, HC, players, assistants, and all the way down to the kid who gets the tee after the opening kickoff are expecting playoffs. 

 

As to the military, I get your point and it's completely fair.  I haven't been in combat, and I completely understand that I can't imagine it.   I remember seeing an interview with Spielberg when Saving Private Ryan came out.   He said he spent a long time interviewing DDay vets and studying, and then he created that incredible opening 20 minute scene, recreating the experience.  But then he said, he had to dial it back a bit, because he knew people literally would not be able to stomach sitting through a half hour of what it really was like.  So, yeah, I understand that I don't understand.   Still, understanding that you think it's hyperbole, other than being an inner city cop, I don't think there's much of anything in our society that people do that approaches the tension and desperation of battle as football does.  

 

And I say that without intending to cheapen or demean in any way what real soldiers do and experience.  I'm in awe of what those people do. 

 

As for tolerating an 8-8 or even a 7-9 season, I think you misperceive what's going on with the Bills.  Yes, there are teams that have had successful turn arounds in 2-3 years, but McBeane have been very clear that their objective is NOT to get to the top as fast as possible.   They aren't operating with a model designed to do that, because the race-to-the-top model is a sacrifice-the-future-for-the-present model.  It's a model that says let's go out spend whatever it takes to get the player we need for this season, the player to put us over the top.  

 

What McBeane are trying to do is build a team with sustained, long-term success.   That is, they're trying to succeed like the Patriots have succeeded, to have a team that continues to succeed with the next man up.   McDermott always talks about building it the right way, and by that he means getting players with the right attitude and having them grow.  And then you add players on top of those players and have them compete.   And you keep doing it, and your team keeps getting better.   This the first season where McDermott has a roster full of players chosen in accordance with that philosophy.    So to expect them to be a playoff team this season is to not recognize what they're doing.   They have a very young team, a team that's still learning the NFL ropes.  It's not a team of seasoned veterans.   They need to add another layer of talent, or two layers, to keep upgrading what they're doing.  

 

They aren't building a team that depends on having superior talent across the roster; they're building a team of really good football players who do their jobs all the time.   They're trying to build a team like the Patriots.   

 

They've said repeatedly that it takes longer to build that way, but it's better because it's sustainable.   They are so vocal and so clear about it, it's impossible to think that the Pegulas are not on board with it.   They've sold the Pegulas on the concept that it may be a long process, but it will lead to sustained excellence.   So I have trouble believing that if the team shows good progress but goes 8-8 the Pegulas will pull the plug.   Some fans, apparently like you, who espouse the quick build philosophy might be calling for a change at 8-8, but I doubt the Pegulas will agree with those fans.   

Just now, Shaw66 said:

As to the military, I get your point and it's completely fair.  I haven't been in combat, and I completely understand that I can't imagine it.   I remember seeing an interview with Spielberg when Saving Private Ryan came out.   He said he spent a long time interviewing DDay vets and studying, and then he created that incredible opening 20 minute scene, recreating the experience.  But then he said, he had to dial it back a bit, because he knew people literally would not be able to stomach sitting through a half hour of what it really was like.  So, yeah, I understand that I don't understand.   Still, understanding that you think it's hyperbole, other than being an inner city cop, I don't think there's much of anything in our society that people do that approaches the tension and desperation of battle as football does.  

 

And I say that without intending to cheapen or demean in any way what real soldiers do and experience.  I'm in awe of what those people do. 

 

As for tolerating an 8-8 or even a 7-9 season, I think you misperceive what's going on with the Bills.  Yes, there are teams that have had successful turn arounds in 2-3 years, but McBeane have been very clear that their objective is NOT to get to the top as fast as possible.   They aren't operating with a model designed to do that, because the race-to-the-top model is a sacrifice-the-future-for-the-present model.  It's a model that says let's go out spend whatever it takes to get the player we need for this season, the player to put us over the top.  

 

What McBeane are trying to do is build a team with sustained, long-term success.   That is, they're trying to succeed like the Patriots have succeeded, to have a team that continues to succeed with the next man up.   McDermott always talks about building it the right way, and by that he means getting players with the right attitude and having them grow.  And then you add players on top of those players and have them compete.   And you keep doing it, and your team keeps getting better.   This the first season where McDermott has a roster full of players chosen in accordance with that philosophy.    So to expect them to be a playoff team this season is to not recognize what they're doing.   They have a very young team, a team that's still learning the NFL ropes.  It's not a team of seasoned veterans.   They need to add another layer of talent, or two layers, to keep upgrading what they're doing.  

 

They aren't building a team that depends on having superior talent across the roster; they're building a team of really good football players who do their jobs all the time.   They're trying to build a team like the Patriots.   

 

They've said repeatedly that it takes longer to build that way, but it's better because it's sustainable.   They are so vocal and so clear about it, it's impossible to think that the Pegulas are not on board with it.   They've sold the Pegulas on the concept that it may be a long process, but it will lead to sustained excellence.   So I have trouble believing that if the team shows good progress but goes 8-8 the Pegulas will pull the plug.   Some fans, apparently like you, who espouse the quick build philosophy might be calling for a change at 8-8, but I doubt the Pegulas will agree with those fans.   

Thanks.  BIllsVet is saying some interesting things here.   Obviously, I don't agree, but I enjoy his thoughts.  

[Shaw66]

And, Vet, one more thing.  You say they should be "expected" to win 10 games.   That too misunderstands how McDermott is running the team

 

Players are "expected" to do their jobs, nothing more, nothing less.  They are evaluated on their individual performance, play by play, and they are coached to improve continuously.  They are told that the wins will come when everyone's doing his job, from the coaches on down.  

 

The head coach and GM are evaluated in the same way.   Their performance objectives are not measured in wins and losses (although it's true that at some point they will lose their jobs without wins).   Their performance is measured by the quality of the talent they've acquired and the extent to which those players are doing their jobs.  Those objectives are established each year, and McBeane are measured against them.   Those objectives are established by them in meetings with the Pegulas, and as I said, I'm sure the Pegulas are on board with this system.  At some point, the Pegulas are going to say to McBeane "we need more wins." and McBeane will make their case about why the process is still on track and they should be patient.  McBeane will either win that argument and continue or lose it and have one more year to achieve a designated win total in the way you suggest.   I am certain this is NOT the year McBeane have a win-or-else ultimatum.  

[BillsVet]

28 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

And, Vet, one more thing.  You say they should be "expected" to win 10 games.   That too misunderstands how McDermott is running the team

 

Players are "expected" to do their jobs, nothing more, nothing less.  They are evaluated on their individual performance, play by play, and they are coached to improve continuously.  They are told that the wins will come when everyone's doing his job, from the coaches on down.  

 

The head coach and GM are evaluated in the same way.   Their performance objectives are not measured in wins and losses (although it's true that at some point they will lose their jobs without wins).   Their performance is measured by the quality of the talent they've acquired and the extent to which those players are doing their jobs.  Those objectives are established each year, and McBeane are measured against them.   Those objectives are established by them in meetings with the Pegulas, and as I said, I'm sure the Pegulas are on board with this system.  At some point, the Pegulas are going to say to McBeane "we need more wins." and McBeane will make their case about why the process is still on track and they should be patient.  McBeane will either win that argument and continue or lose it and have one more year to achieve a designated win total in the way you suggest.   I am certain this is NOT the year McBeane have a win-or-else ultimatum.  

 

No, the only performance metric is the win column.  That's it.  Not even profitability and culture supersede how the team does on the field and while McBeane aren't on the hot-seat in 2019, not making the playoffs puts them squarely on it for 2020.     

 

McBeane set the bar pretty high after they did a complete tear-down of the roster in 2017 and 2018. You simply don't go through what the fan base went through in years 1 and 2 for a 7-9 win season in year 3.   The main issue is that for whatever reason, some are a lot more accepting of mediocre to average football.  It's like a fan stockholm syndrome. 

 

54 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

What McBeane are trying to do is build a team with sustained, long-term success.   That is, they're trying to succeed like the Patriots have succeeded, to have a team that continues to succeed with the next man up.   McDermott always talks about building it the right way, and by that he means getting players with the right attitude and having them grow.  And then you add players on top of those players and have them compete.   And you keep doing it, and your team keeps getting better.   This the first season where McDermott has a roster full of players chosen in accordance with that philosophy.    So to expect them to be a playoff team this season is to not recognize what they're doing.   They have a very young team, a team that's still learning the NFL ropes.  It's not a team of seasoned veterans.   They need to add another layer of talent, or two layers, to keep upgrading what they're doing.  

 

They aren't building a team that depends on having superior talent across the roster; they're building a team of really good football players who do their jobs all the time.   They're trying to build a team like the Patriots.   

 

They've said repeatedly that it takes longer to build that way, but it's better because it's sustainable.   They are so vocal and so clear about it, it's impossible to think that the Pegulas are not on board with it.   They've sold the Pegulas on the concept that it may be a long process, but it will lead to sustained excellence.   So I have trouble believing that if the team shows good progress but goes 8-8 the Pegulas will pull the plug.   Some fans, apparently like you, who espouse the quick build philosophy might be calling for a change at 8-8, but I doubt the Pegulas will agree with those fans.  

 

You win in the NFL by having elite talent at the major positions and winning those match-up battles.  Average talent does not win enough in the regular season, even those who fit the HC's culture.   

 

As for the sustainability of rebuilding, would you say the 2-3 years it took the Rams, Chiefs, Eagles, and Seattle to rebuild his past decade were not for the long haul as well?  A longer rebuild may portend one that was poorly conceived and eventually ineffective.  After all, some teams have gone about rebuilding and topped out at average. 

[Say When...]

41 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

And, Vet, one more thing.  You say they should be "expected" to win 10 games.   That too misunderstands how McDermott is running the team

 

Players are "expected" to do their jobs, nothing more, nothing less.  They are evaluated on their individual performance, play by play, and they are coached to improve continuously.  They are told that the wins will come when everyone's doing his job, from the coaches on down.  

 

The head coach and GM are evaluated in the same way.   Their performance objectives are not measured in wins and losses (although it's true that at some point they will lose their jobs without wins).   Their performance is measured by the quality of the talent they've acquired and the extent to which those players are doing their jobs.  Those objectives are established each year, and McBeane are measured against them.   Those objectives are established by them in meetings with the Pegulas, and as I said, I'm sure the Pegulas are on board with this system.  At some point, the Pegulas are going to say to McBeane "we need more wins." and McBeane will make their case about why the process is still on track and they should be patient.  McBeane will either win that argument and continue or lose it and have one more year to achieve a designated win total in the way you suggest.   I am certain this is NOT the year McBeane have a win-or-else ultimatum.  

 

totally in agreement with this, very well said.

 

IMO this is our 'cusp' year; next year the win expectations are realized and i think Beane is strategically moving down that path as well. Look at the "90mm next year what do we do with it?" thread, with the exceptions of a couple, we're pretty set for those "last couple of pieces" that we hopefully learn from this year.

 

if we somehow bring it together this year than that's the icing...

[Figster]

14 hours ago, BillsVet said:

There's no need to employ phrases like when the "shooting starts" to describe a team's season.  I laugh when fans start talking about football as a battle because real shooting isn't anything like football.  This reminds me of a Marv Levy quote when someone asked him (and I'm paraphrasing) if a certain game was must-win.  Marv responded by saying no, World War II was a must-win.  

 

 

Second, anyone who mentions 2020 at this point is hedging their bets and not fully confident the off-season was productive enough.  All commentary will stop short of having a defined expectation as a result.  

 

Additionally, there is no indication at this early point what the talent level will be next year...in large part because players are constantly leaving, injured, and/or aging.  

 

Bottom line, the Bills need to be in the discussion to win the division this year, and short of that, win 10 or more games.     

 

Jim "Machine gun" Kelly and Thurmal Warfare beg to differ,

 

Are we going to remove the description gunslinger while we're at it?

 

 

[Don Otreply]

4 hours ago, SoCal Deek said:

Well done Shaw. I absolutely love the line: Get Better or Get Beat. That pretty much sums it up!

Go Bills

Like a Clint Eastwood western, where you get rich or get killed.  Shaw you write a good line, always look forward to your posts.

 

Go Bills!!!

[Logic]

Thanks for the post.

Me? I'm out of poetic verbiage. I can no longer pontificate.

I'm just excited. I'm optimistic. I'm nervous. 

Five more days.

 

[BillsVet]

7 minutes ago, Figster said:

Jim "Machine gun" Kelly and Thurmal Warfare beg to differ,

 

Are we going to remove the description gunslinger while we're at it?

 

Now tell me you have some friends who participated in Wild West shoot-outs back in the day.

[Shaw66]

32 minutes ago, BillsVet said:

 

You win in the NFL by having elite talent at the major positions and winning those match-up battles.  Average talent does not win enough in the regular season, even those who fit the HC's culture.   

 

As for the sustainability of rebuilding, would you say the 2-3 years it took the Rams, Chiefs, Eagles, and Seattle to rebuild his past decade were not for the long haul as well?  A longer rebuild may portend one that was poorly conceived and eventually ineffective.  After all, some teams have gone about rebuilding and topped out at average. 

Say hello to Bill Belichick.   He wins with an elite quarterback and a shutdown corner, period.  The rest is window dressing.  It's average talent, because he never is drafting in a position to bet elite talent.  

 

I'm not telling you what McBeane are doing is the right way or the only way.   I'm telling what it is that they're doing and I expect will happen.   You may think there's a different way or a better way, and that's fine, but your way is not what is happening at One Bills Drive.   It's foolish to apply your expectations based on how you would rebuild to a system that is rebuilding in a different way.  

8 minutes ago, Logic said:

Thanks for the post.

Me? I'm out of poetic verbiage. I can no longer pontificate.

I'm just excited. I'm optimistic. I'm nervous. 

Five more days.

 

Nervous is the word.

 

I was optimistic a month ago.   Not now.   I can see too many things that can go wrong.    I can see how it could be beautiful, how it SHOULD be.   But I'm nervous.  

[Figster]

4 minutes ago, BillsVet said:

 

Now tell me you have some friends who participated in Wild West shoot-outs back in the day.

I'm telling you when Mahomes plays Brady we're in for a shootout.

 

Back in the day it was Kelly and Marino...

[BillsVet]

2 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

Say hello to Bill Belichick.   He wins with an elite quarterback and a shutdown corner, period.  The rest is window dressing.  It's average talent, because he never is drafting in a position to bet elite talent.  

 

I'm not telling you what McBeane are doing is the right way or the only way.   I'm telling what it is that they're doing and I expect will happen.   You may think there's a different way or a better way, and that's fine, but your way is not what is happening at One Bills Drive.   It's foolish to apply your expectations based on how you would rebuild to a system that is rebuilding in a different way. 

 

Yes, every coach with a stud QB is on the Bill Belichick level.  The conflations on here get more wild every year.

 

From 2000-present, New England has had 31 players (excluding special teams and Brady) earn 60 Pro Bowl selections.  15 players were 1st team All-Pros a combined 20 times. 

 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/nwe/all-pros.htm

 

And for the record, how would you define "average talent?"

[Logic]

15 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

 

Nervous is the word.

 

I was optimistic a month ago.   Not now.   I can see too many things that can go wrong.    I can see how it could be beautiful, how it SHOULD be.   But I'm nervous.  

I'm terribly curious to know your feelings on the release of LeSean McCoy. Specifically, do you think the 2019 Buffalo Bills are better, worse, or not materially much different without McCoy in the fold than with him?

[HappyDays]

1 hour ago, BillsVet said:

As for the sustainability of rebuilding, would you say the 2-3 years it took the Rams, Chiefs, Eagles, and Seattle to rebuild his past decade were not for the long haul as well?

 

The Rams have had the same GM since 2012. Last year was year 6 of his rebuild. Since his splurge in free agency they now have a 1-2 year window before the seams fall apart. Not sure how effective that strategy will be.

 

Andy Reid has been with the Chiefs since 2013. Last year was year 6 of his rebuild. If Mahomes keeps it up they'll be set for the long haul no matter what happens outside of him. Only took 6 years to get there.

 

Eagles have had the same GM since 2010. Took him 8 years to win the Super Bowl. That's quite a long rebuild and there were plenty of missteps along the way.

 

Pete Carroll was hired in 2010. He went 7-9 his first 2 years before Russell Wilson exploded onto the scene. Made it to the playoffs in year 3 and won the Super Bowl year 4.

 

So not really sure where you got the idea that good rebuilds take 2-3 years. They normally take longer than that to find real success. Personally I will be disappointed if the Bills end up less than 9-7 but if you're expecting them to complete for a Super Bowl this year they're a year or two off from that stage of the rebuild.

[Mat68]

1 hour ago, BillsVet said:

 

No, the only performance metric is the win column.  That's it.  Not even profitability and culture supersede how the team does on the field and while McBeane aren't on the hot-seat in 2019, not making the playoffs puts them squarely on it for 2020.     

 

McBeane set the bar pretty high after they did a complete tear-down of the roster in 2017 and 2018. You simply don't go through what the fan base went through in years 1 and 2 for a 7-9 win season in year 3.   The main issue is that for whatever reason, some are a lot more accepting of mediocre to average football.  It's like a fan stockholm syndrome. 

 

 

You win in the NFL by having elite talent at the major positions and winning those match-up battles.  Average talent does not win enough in the regular season, even those who fit the HC's culture.   

 

As for the sustainability of rebuilding, would you say the 2-3 years it took the Rams, Chiefs, Eagles, and Seattle to rebuild his past decade were not for the long haul as well?  A longer rebuild may portend one that was poorly conceived and eventually ineffective.  After all, some teams have gone about rebuilding and topped out at average. 

They put the fan base through 1 poor season, while breaking in a rookie Qb.  Year 1 he made the playoffs.  He's shown tha ability to create a team, and on defense get the absolute best out of his personal. 

 

Going into year 2 the team lacked franchise players.  They went super talented and young.  Allen and Edmunds are set up to be the cornerstones of the franchise. Last year was a step backwards with the hope of taking 2 steps forward.  

 

This year you can see the offense being shaped around Allen.  The Defense looks poised to go from under the radar to tops of the league.  Hope's are high.  I like what Allen's shown in December.  He expands on that Buffalo is a contender.  

[BillsVet]

19 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

The Rams have had the same GM since 2012. Last year was year 6 of his rebuild. Since his splurge in free agency they now have a 1-2 year window before the seams fall apart. Not sure how effective that strategy will be.

 

Andy Reid has been with the Chiefs since 2013. Last year was year 6 of his rebuild. If Mahomes keeps it up they'll be set for the long haul no matter what happens outside of him. Only took 6 years to get there.

 

Eagles have had the same GM since 2010. Took him 8 years to win the Super Bowl. That's quite a long rebuild and there were plenty of missteps along the way.

 

Pete Carroll was hired in 2010. He went 7-9 his first 2 years before Russell Wilson exploded onto the scene. Made it to the playoffs in year 3 and won the Super Bowl year 4.

 

So not really sure where you got the idea that good rebuilds take 2-3 years. They normally take longer than that to find real success. Personally I will be disappointed if the Bills end up less than 9-7 but if you're expecting them to complete for a Super Bowl this year they're a year or two off from that stage of the rebuild.

 

This is some major league quibbling. 

 

4 teams each hired a new HC.  Each HC acquired a new QB within those first three seasons on the job.  Each had multiple playoff appearances AND won a post-season game in those first 3 seasons.  Each have sustained their winning and/or show no signs of a steep decline.    

 

Yet, Buffalo should not be expected to live up to this level after year 3. 

[Shaw66]

2 hours ago, Logic said:

I'm terribly curious to know your feelings on the release of LeSean McCoy. Specifically, do you think the 2019 Buffalo Bills are better, worse, or not materially much different without McCoy in the fold than with him?

Not much different.  Worse without him, to be sure, but not much different and not so much that it will matter, unless, of course, there's an injury or two.  

 

As soon as I saw Singletary's college highlights, I thought his running style was very much like Shady's - quick burst into the hole, great change of direction, lacking in top-end speed.  I think he could easily be a 1000-yard back in a good rushing offense.   

 

Shady was a leader, but the coaches quickly figured out that Gore could fill that role.  And Gore gives them a better 1-2 combination than Singletary and Shady.   

 

There was at least a question about how Shady would handle, personally, a running back by committee approach.   As the preseason wore on it became clear that Yeldon could contribute, so I think the coaches realized they could spread the ball carrying load among three backs and make it work.   Shady's always been the workhouse back, and he might not have fit in so well. 

 

Plus, they make these decisions with an eye toward the future, and they clearly seem to have decided that there's a future for Singletary.   

 

Saving the $6 million was a factor, but I doubt it was the driving consideration.

 

More generally, I'll say what I always say about this stuff.  Except for QB, no individual position player is all that important.   There are maybe a half-dozen non-quarterbacks, maybe a dozen, in the league whose presence on the field changes the outcome of games, and those guys are mostly on defense.  Actually, I can see Edmunds becoming one of those.  It truly is a team game, which is the message that McDermott preaches.   I heard Colin Cowherd say one day that he asked a Las Vegas odds maker how much difference it would make in a Houston Texans point spread if JJ Watt wasn't going to play.   The odds maker said half a point.   This is a one or two time NFL defensive player of the year, and he makes half a point difference in the spread.   Now, I loved LeSean, but he couldn't impact a game like JJ Watt can.  

 

I have a pretty simple view of the game.   It's all about the coach first, and the QB second.  Everything else a good coach can work around.   Shady was just another player.  Special, fun to watch, tough on third down and could make big plays, maybe better than Singletary, but absent injuries, I doubt that the Bills will lose a game this season that they would have won with Shady in the lineup.  

[mead107]

9 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

Not much different.  Worse without him, to be sure, but not much different and not so much that it will matter, unless, of course, there's an injury or two.  

 

As soon as I saw Singletary's college highlights, I thought his running style was very much like Shady's - quick burst into the hole, great change of direction, lacking in top-end speed.  I think he could easily be a 1000-yard back in a good rushing offense.   

 

Shady was a leader, but the coaches quickly figured out that Gore could fill that role.  And Gore gives them a better 1-2 combination than Singletary and Shady.   

 

There was at least a question about how Shady would handle, personally, a running back by committee approach.   As the preseason wore on it became clear that Yeldon could contribute, so I think the coaches realized they could spread the ball carrying load among three backs and make it work.   Shady's always been the workhouse back, and he might not have fit in so well. 

 

Plus, they make these decisions with an eye toward the future, and they clearly seem to have decided that there's a future for Singletary.   

 

Saving the $6 million was a factor, but I doubt it was the driving consideration.

 

More generally, I'll say what I always say about this stuff.  Except for QB, no individual position player is all that important.   There are maybe a half-dozen non-quarterbacks, maybe a dozen, in the league whose presence on the field changes the outcome of games, and those guys are mostly on defense.  Actually, I can see Edmunds becoming one of those.  It truly is a team game, which is the message that McDermott preaches.   I heard Colin Cowherd say one day that he asked a Las Vegas odds maker how much difference it would make in a Houston Texans point spread if JJ Watt wasn't going to play.   The odds maker said half a point.   This is a one or two time NFL defensive player of the year, and he makes half a point difference in the spread.   Now, I loved LeSean, but he couldn't impact a game like JJ Watt can.  

 

I have a pretty simple view of the game.   It's all about the coach first, and the QB second.  Everything else a good coach can work around.   Shady was just another player.  Special, fun to watch, tough on third down and could make big plays, maybe better than Singletary, but absent injuries, I doubt that the Bills will lose a game this season that they would have won with Shady in the lineup.  

Really do like all your post.  ??????

keep up the great work. 

 

Thank you