klos63 Posted August 30, 2019 Posted August 30, 2019 Whatever happened to - "do this on your own time, not at work"... of course , unless you agree with it, then do it on 'our' time. 2
MarkAF43 Posted August 30, 2019 Posted August 30, 2019 20 minutes ago, Bills4Ever4Life said: Maybe special hatred is too strong. More like, a great dislike for the arrogance and ignorance of the masses. I was deployed. I have many friends who were deployed and some who never made it home. I wasn't even alive for some of the wars that took a HUGE amount of life in comparison so I can't imagine how those veterans feel. However, if you were in the military you know that standing and saluting or putting your hand over your heart during the anthem is a RESPECT thing. Do I feel they don't have the RIGHT to do what they are doing? Of course they do. However, in doing so they are disrespecting the anthem. In doing that they are disrespecting the very veterans who DIED to bring that right to them. So it all comes full circle. Sure, my friends and thousands over the years died for the right for them to do as they wish. However, they would all be rolling in their graves if they knew that how they decided to use that freedom was to disrespect the country they fought and died for. As a veteran and a current member of our military your statement is full of assumptions and opinions rather than truth. You assume all of them think and see it like you do, you assume and think it’s a disrespect to everyone who paid the ultimate price the flag has a universal meeting but it also has very individualistic meanings to many people. To assume or think all veterans living or not think the same way you do is very short sighted and truthfully just plain wrong.
Mango Posted August 30, 2019 Posted August 30, 2019 10 minutes ago, Bills4Ever4Life said: Look, I have literally said that I am a PROPONENT of the social injustice movement. I just didn't like how they went about using their freedoms to disrespect the very thing that gave them those freedoms to get their point across. I feel like their could be a good compromise that would get the message across without being so disrespectful. Kneeling during the anthem was never intended to be disrespectful. In fact it was a vet that suggested it to Kaep himself. Do you find Retired Army Green Beret Nate Boyer disrespectful as well? History treated Jesse Owens just fine, and it will do the same to Kaep. 1
Gugny Posted August 30, 2019 Posted August 30, 2019 1 minute ago, Bills4Ever4Life said: I disagree. It's kind of like saying that a person without kids can understand what it's like to have kids and be a parent. If you aren't a veteran. If you don't know people that DIED for the very rights that they are using. If you don't know how important that song and flag are to you when you are trying to find meaning in those deaths and all the many thousands of deaths before. Then you see people doing everything you were told was disrespectful to those symbols in your life. Yeah, its something you just don't understand as well unless you lived it. So yes, being a veteran is relevant. It really isn't. You really think you fought someone to protect our rights? Who, exactly, was threatening to take them away during this battle? I am so tired of veterans putting themselves above others. You're no different than anyone who didn't spend time in the military, as far as rights go. It's one constitution. 2 1 1
klos63 Posted August 30, 2019 Posted August 30, 2019 27 minutes ago, Bills4Ever4Life said: Maybe special hatred is too strong. More like, a great dislike for the arrogance and ignorance of the masses. I was deployed. I have many friends who were deployed and some who never made it home. I wasn't even alive for some of the wars that took a HUGE amount of life in comparison so I can't imagine how those veterans feel. However, if you were in the military you know that standing and saluting or putting your hand over your heart during the anthem is a RESPECT thing. Do I feel they don't have the RIGHT to do what they are doing? Of course they do. However, in doing so they are disrespecting the anthem. In doing that they are disrespecting the very veterans who DIED to bring that right to them. So it all comes full circle. Sure, my friends and thousands over the years died for the right for them to do as they wish. However, they would all be rolling in their graves if they knew that how they decided to use that freedom was to disrespect the country they fought and died for. Yes, this has nothing to do with the anthem and honestly I should have taken my opinions out of the first line of my OP. I was genuinely just trying to figure out what was going on because I hadn't seen it before. Yeah, I don't think you come across any less of an a$$ this way. 1
Not at the table Karlos Posted August 30, 2019 Posted August 30, 2019 8 minutes ago, Bills4Ever4Life said: I disagree. It's kind of like saying that a person without kids can understand what it's like to have kids and be a parent. If you aren't a veteran. If you don't know people that DIED for the very rights that they are using. If you don't know how important that song and flag are to you when you are trying to find meaning in those deaths and all the many thousands of deaths before. Then you see people doing everything you were told was disrespectful to those symbols in your life. Yeah, its something you just don't understand as well unless you lived it. So yes, being a veteran is relevant. Holy brainwash Batman
MarkAF43 Posted August 30, 2019 Posted August 30, 2019 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Bills4Ever4Life said: Wow, I can only imagine that you are either lying or that you think these statements will never get back to your peers / those in charge of you. I can, without a doubt, tell you that that is NOT how the military viewed the flag or the anthem while I was in. Do you talk to your commander with that mouth?! "The flag has a universal meaning and very individualistic meanings" .....wth??? In what branch? I DARE you to send this statement to your supervisor / commander. I beg it of you. Let me know how your article 5 feels. Wow. You’re something else. You know nothing of me and you’re going to accuse me of lying about my service? I’ve had these discussions with my Commander and supervisor. article 5? You are clearly confused. Edit. Show me where I said anything that would be considered negative. I’ll wait. Edited August 30, 2019 by MarkAF43
Not at the table Karlos Posted August 30, 2019 Posted August 30, 2019 3 minutes ago, Bills4Ever4Life said: Wow, I can only imagine that you are either lying or that you think these statements will never get back to your peers / those in charge of you. I can, without a doubt, tell you that that is NOT how the military viewed the flag or the anthem while I was in. Do you talk to your commander with that mouth?! "The flag has a universal meaning and very individualistic meanings" .....wth??? In what branch? I DARE you to send this statement to your supervisor / commander. I beg it of you. Let me know how your article 5 feels. Yeah they got you pretty good. It’s sad when people can’t think for themselves.
Bills4Ever4Life Posted August 30, 2019 Author Posted August 30, 2019 Allright I give up. My true intentions with this post were to find out what was going on with the kneeling over there. Thought it was cool and it's turned into a heated debate (fueled by myself)....so I am taking away the fuel. Sorry for stirring the pot. I won't respond to anything anymore unless it has to do with my original intent.
MarkAF43 Posted August 30, 2019 Posted August 30, 2019 9 minutes ago, Gugny said: It really isn't. You really think you fought someone to protect our rights? Who, exactly, was threatening to take them away during this battle? I am so tired of veterans putting themselves above others. You're no different than anyone who didn't spend time in the military, as far as rights go. It's one constitution. Gugny, these are are the types of veterans that worry me. As someone with 15 years of service and counting, this is what I hope I don’t become as I get older. 3
Gugny Posted August 30, 2019 Posted August 30, 2019 1 minute ago, Bills4Ever4Life said: Oh absolutely. Totally agree with you. Thank GOD that I didn't actually kill anyone while I was out there. Although I had plenty of friends I made while over there that did. I was in operation shock and awe and I am telling you that good people DID die for you. You don't think good people died for your rights in WW1? WW2? You think that you would still have any rights had all of them up and decided to not fight for you? WTF? Unless you were in one of the World Wars, then stop pretending you defended anyone's freedom/rights. You didn't There was NO THREAT! Your service is absolutely appreciated. But no one owes you a damn thing. You're an American just like all other Americans. Stop pretending you're above others just because you served in the military. 3 1
row_33 Posted August 30, 2019 Posted August 30, 2019 1 hour ago, Bills4Ever4Life said: I've just been to a ton of games and somehow missed it before. I think its actually very cool. the effect of a dance routine in the EZ is captured by at most 5% of the stadium but TV makes it look like a big deal
BillsFanNC Posted August 30, 2019 Posted August 30, 2019 1 hour ago, PromoTheRobot said: I wasn't calling you out. I was just pointing out that some people do that, mostly on Facebook. Yep, and people of all political persuasions do it. Social media is a cesspool of fake news and endless outrage one-upmanship.
Bills4Ever4Life Posted August 30, 2019 Author Posted August 30, 2019 14 minutes ago, klos63 said: Yeah, I don't think you come across any less of an a$$ this way. That is why I have literally deleted half my messages and edited the other half. I never wanted this and I get too heated when it comes to all of this. It's sad really because I support the cause that they are speaking about. I've been to rallies and truly do believe in it. I hate how I let my own personal feelings from my life cloud that and how I let them seep through to derail what could have been a quaint but fun topic. 1
DrDawkinstein Posted August 30, 2019 Posted August 30, 2019 33 minutes ago, BringBackFergy said: Hall of Famer Members 1,750 19,580 posts Report post Posted just now 3 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said: However, in doing so they are disrespecting the anthem. In doing that they are disrespecting the very veterans who DIED to bring that right to them. No they arent. Youre just too lazy to bother to understand why they are doing it. If you really cared about your service, and the foundation of our country, you would actually support them. Are you arguing with yourself?? Hahaha, weird! That is a quote from OP, not sure how the board injected my username in there. I defintely didnt say that. 1
BringBackFergy Posted August 30, 2019 Posted August 30, 2019 1 minute ago, DrDawkinstein said: Hahaha, weird! That is a quote from OP, not sure how the board injected my username in there. I defintely didnt say that. I always thought it would be funny to have a poster argue with himself in a thread. No worries. 1
MarkAF43 Posted August 30, 2019 Posted August 30, 2019 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Bills4Ever4Life said: That is why I have literally deleted half my messages and edited the other half. I never wanted this and I get too heated when it comes to all of this. It's sad really because I support the cause that they are speaking about. I've been to rallies and truly do believe in it. I hate how I let my own personal feelings from my life cloud that and how I let them seep through to derail what could have been a quaint but fun topic. So accusing someone of lying about service is who you are? That’s quite an interesting approach. I’m not sure about how long ago you served, how long, tank, with who, but if you’re that person who attacks when confronted with difficult conversations, you’re someone I’d absolutely distance myself from while serving. Way too much negativity and hostility. Edited August 30, 2019 by MarkAF43
row_33 Posted August 30, 2019 Posted August 30, 2019 15 minutes ago, BringBackFergy said: I always thought it would be funny to have a poster argue with himself in a thread. No worries. what's wrong with me and my 500 mults doing this?
Bills4Ever4Life Posted August 30, 2019 Author Posted August 30, 2019 16 minutes ago, Gugny said: Unless you were in one of the World Wars, then stop pretending you defended anyone's freedom/rights. You didn't There was NO THREAT! Your service is absolutely appreciated. But no one owes you a damn thing. You're an American just like all other Americans. Stop pretending you're above others just because you served in the military. 3 minutes ago, MarkAF43 said: So accusing someone of lying about service is who you are? That’s quite an interesting approach. You know what. That was uncalled for. Like I said I get heated. I know that myself and all my friends I have that are veterans are all annoyed by this. However, obviously not all current military forces are. I apologize for the assumption and hopefully we can move on.
Gugny Posted August 30, 2019 Posted August 30, 2019 15 minutes ago, MarkAF43 said: Gugny, these are are the types of veterans that worry me. As someone with 15 years of service and counting, this is what I hope I don’t become as I get older. Mark, I'm very proud of my four years in the Navy. But it's not like I stormed the beaches of Normandy. People need to put stuff into perspective. 1
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