C.Biscuit97 Posted August 30, 2019 Posted August 30, 2019 5 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: The Chicago Bears did that experiment in 2016, when Barkley started the last 6 games of the season for them. The answer was "No". He was on pace to throw 28 ints. His arm is weaker than Fitz’s.
Kelly the Dog Posted August 30, 2019 Posted August 30, 2019 Just now, C.Biscuit97 said: He was on pace to throw 28 ints. His arm is weaker than Fitz’s. It's not even close. Barkley's is substantially weaker. He's way, way overrated by Bills fans. Although he will definitely help Josh. 1
ColoradoBills Posted August 30, 2019 Posted August 30, 2019 (edited) 7 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said: There’s a reason he has had 12 starts and was out of the league last year. Super nice guy and I’m fine with him as our backup. But he is the definition of replacement level. Honestly, I actually won be fine with Osweiler as our backup instead of Barkley, but it would be bad timing to make that move now. There is lot of posts about Barkley "sitting on the couch/our of the league" in 2018 but that's a bit of a stretch. Barkley signed a 2 year 3.1 million dollar contract with the Bengals in March of 2018. He got injured and IR'd. Bengals then released him and he recovered in the first part of last season. I only use your post to say this because it was the latest but it's not like nobody wanted him after his CHI stint. Edited August 30, 2019 by ColoradoBills added $ amount
Figster Posted August 30, 2019 Posted August 30, 2019 (edited) 58 minutes ago, Kelly the Dog said: It's not even close. Barkley's is substantially weaker. He's way, way overrated by Bills fans. Although he will definitely help Josh. Not much info on Barkleys actual velocity and it would not surprise me If he has gotten stronger over time. Eye test tells me Matt Barkley is making all the throws. ( In a Bills uni) Fitz doesn't have enough arm strength to throw with good zip without using his whole body on the throw.( IMO ) Myself personally, I think Barkley uses much better throwing mechanics resulting in better accuracy. Edited August 30, 2019 by Figster
Doc Posted August 30, 2019 Posted August 30, 2019 7 hours ago, Figster said: Not much info on Barkleys actual velocity and it would not surprise me If he has gotten stronger over time. Eye test tells me Matt Barkley is making all the throws. ( In a Bills uni) Fitz doesn't have enough arm strength to throw with good zip without using his whole body on the throw.( IMO ) Myself personally, I think Barkley uses much better throwing mechanics resulting in better accuracy. Fitz is a double-cheeker. But again with Barkley, I think he knows to play within his limits, something Fitz and Peterman struggle doing. 1
T master Posted August 30, 2019 Author Posted August 30, 2019 16 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: The Chicago Bears did that experiment in 2016, when Barkley started the last 6 games of the season for them. The answer was "No". Very true but remember what happened when Case Keenum went to the Vikings in the scheme they ran, it fit him apparently & he excelled in it & given what we have seen in Barkley to this point with his experience & he has said in recent interviews that he loves the scheme Dabol has put in . So that being said he could thrive like Keenum did with the Bills given the chance . Like i said in the post i don't think they should do a deal for Barkley the post was a hypothetical & it would have to be one heck of a trade if it was even a thought & knowing what Beane & company see in Barkley i don't think he will be going any where ! But as stated in some reply's with Beane anything could be possible ...
C.Biscuit97 Posted August 30, 2019 Posted August 30, 2019 10 hours ago, Figster said: Not much info on Barkleys actual velocity and it would not surprise me If he has gotten stronger over time. Eye test tells me Matt Barkley is making all the throws. ( In a Bills uni) Fitz doesn't have enough arm strength to throw with good zip without using his whole body on the throw.( IMO ) Myself personally, I think Barkley uses much better throwing mechanics resulting in better accuracy. You are basing this on one game against a crappy Jets team and preseason games. Fitz is Tom Brady compared to Barkley. 1
Kelly the Dog Posted August 30, 2019 Posted August 30, 2019 10 hours ago, Figster said: Not much info on Barkleys actual velocity and it would not surprise me If he has gotten stronger over time. Eye test tells me Matt Barkley is making all the throws. ( In a Bills uni) Fitz doesn't have enough arm strength to throw with good zip without using his whole body on the throw.( IMO ) Myself personally, I think Barkley uses much better throwing mechanics resulting in better accuracy. If you rewatch the Jets game he threw floaters all game, and got lucky with them several times. He could have had a few interceptions. He doesn't have the arm. He can get away with it sometimes, like did against the Jets, because he is smart. But he is the same guy he was on Philly and Chicago, and was chosen in the fourth round. He has everything you want except an arm, and they get killed in regular season games. The practice and preseason is Peterman 1.0 1
BillsMafia13 Posted August 30, 2019 Posted August 30, 2019 23 hours ago, nucci said: Great? Unless your threshold for great is aaron rodgers as a back up qb, yes barkley has been everything the bills could have asked for and then some
Hapless Bills Fan Posted August 30, 2019 Posted August 30, 2019 34 minutes ago, T master said: Very true but remember what happened when Case Keenum went to the Vikings in the scheme they ran, it fit him apparently & he excelled in it & given what we have seen in Barkley to this point with his experience & he has said in recent interviews that he loves the scheme Dabol has put in . So that being said he could thrive like Keenum did with the Bills given the chance . Like i said in the post i don't think they should do a deal for Barkley the post was a hypothetical & it would have to be one heck of a trade if it was even a thought & knowing what Beane & company see in Barkley i don't think he will be going any where ! But as stated in some reply's with Beane anything could be possible ... I personally think Pat Shurmur is a QB whisperer. He has gotten good play out of Foles and Keenum and made Sanchez and Bradford look competent. I'm not sure Daboll is a whisperer on the same level. I guess we'll see. The other thing to realize is the part played by the WR/TE they were throwing to. Thielen and Diggs have amazing vertical leap and can haul in those 'zip code accuracy' throws. Same was true of Desean Jackson in Philly.
Figster Posted August 30, 2019 Posted August 30, 2019 29 minutes ago, Kelly the Dog said: If you rewatch the Jets game he threw floaters all game, and got lucky with them several times. He could have had a few interceptions. He doesn't have the arm. He can get away with it sometimes, like did against the Jets, because he is smart. But he is the same guy he was on Philly and Chicago, and was chosen in the fourth round. He has everything you want except an arm, and they get killed in regular season games. The practice and preseason is Peterman 1.0 I respectfully disagree Myself personally, arm strength is a bit overrated and the fraction of a second difference between 50 and 60 mph throws can be made up with faster read and react time/decisiveness IMO. Also throwing trajectory with more of an arc in many instances proves more beneficial then a straight line trajectory especially for shorter QB's. In my humble opinion Kelly.
Kelly the Dog Posted August 30, 2019 Posted August 30, 2019 2 minutes ago, Figster said: I respectfully disagree Myself personally, arm strength is a bit overrated and the fraction of a second difference between 50 and 60 mph throws can be made up with faster read and react time/decisiveness IMO. Also throwing trajectory with more of an arc in many instances proves more beneficial then a straight line trajectory especially for shorter QB's. In my humble opinion Kelly. Arm strength is overrated IF you can make all the throws. A guy like Fitz doesn't have good arm strength but he can throw a deep out pass in the regular season. Barkley cannot. It's an enormous difference. 1
Figster Posted August 30, 2019 Posted August 30, 2019 (edited) 17 minutes ago, Kelly the Dog said: Arm strength is overrated IF you can make all the throws. A guy like Fitz doesn't have good arm strength but he can throw a deep out pass in the regular season. Barkley cannot. It's an enormous difference. My eye test with Barkley in a Bills uni says different. The Bills have a very good secondary to practice against. Where are the Barkley INT's? Where were they last season in regular season play? Or this preseason? I think its easy to look at a young QB with only 12 NFL games played and say he sucks. I've seen as many strong armed QB's fail in the NFL because they can't throw with anticipation or touch as QB's that fail from lack of sufficient arm strength. I think the answer might be somewhere in the middle, With all due respect thy Dog... Edited August 30, 2019 by Figster
Kelly the Dog Posted August 30, 2019 Posted August 30, 2019 20 minutes ago, Figster said: My eye test with Barkley in a Bills uni says different. The Bills have a very good secondary to practice against. Where are the Barkley INT's? Where were they last season in regular season play? Or this preseason? I think its easy to look at a young QB with only 12 NFL games played and say he sucks. I've seen as many strong armed QB's fail in the NFL because they can't throw with anticipation or touch as QB's that fail from lack of sufficient arm strength. I think the answer might be somewhere in the middle, With all due respect thy Dog... Fair enough but practice and preseason are never played at full speed, and the difference between those two speeds and real bullets are completions and interceptions. 1
Figster Posted August 30, 2019 Posted August 30, 2019 1 minute ago, Kelly the Dog said: Fair enough but practice and preseason are never played at full speed, and the difference between those two speeds and real bullets are completions and interceptions. This is true, I think the next move is up to Barkley, Does he Peterman out when called upon in real action? Is the Bills Bark worse then the oppositions D's bite? that becomes the question...
Kelly the Dog Posted August 30, 2019 Posted August 30, 2019 Just now, Figster said: This is true, I think the next move is up to Barkley, Does he Peterman out when called upon in real action? Is the Bills Bark worse then the oppositions D's bite? that becomes the question... On an out pass or deep out or deep in, Barkley is Peterman. He's just a little smarter, and he doesn't telegraph or panic as much. But he does have an 8 TD and 14 INT record, and it's because his arm is not NFL quality. If he even had Fitzy's arm he may be able to start in this league. 1
Figster Posted August 30, 2019 Posted August 30, 2019 3 minutes ago, Kelly the Dog said: On an out pass or deep out or deep in, Barkley is Peterman. He's just a little smarter, and he doesn't telegraph or panic as much. But he does have an 8 TD and 14 INT record, and it's because his arm is not NFL quality. If he even had Fitzy's arm he may be able to start in this league. I think Fitzy is a career turnover machine and body whips allot of throws to achieve higher velocity. I had a thread topic here on TBD years ago while Fitzfizzles was Buffalo's starting QB, "Fitz the turnover machine" (If I remember correctly) 1
Kelly the Dog Posted August 30, 2019 Posted August 30, 2019 19 minutes ago, Figster said: I think Fitzy is a career turnover machine and body whips allot of throws to achieve higher velocity. I had a thread topic here on TBD years ago while Fitzfizzles was Buffalo's starting QB, "Fitz the turnover machine" (If I remember correctly) Oh, he definitely is. That wind up costs him the same split second that kills weak armed QBs a lot of times. 1
T master Posted August 31, 2019 Author Posted August 31, 2019 12 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: I personally think Pat Shurmur is a QB whisperer. He has gotten good play out of Foles and Keenum and made Sanchez and Bradford look competent. I'm not sure Daboll is a whisperer on the same level. I guess we'll see. The other thing to realize is the part played by the WR/TE they were throwing to. Thielen and Diggs have amazing vertical leap and can haul in those 'zip code accuracy' throws. Same was true of Desean Jackson in Philly. Point taken ! ?
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