MILFHUNTER#518 Posted August 29, 2019 Posted August 29, 2019 4 hours ago, elroy16 said: Paid site, so I'll only post parts. The Athletic is well worth the price, tons of great articles. https://theathletic.com/1167351/2019/08/29/is-your-guy-ready-for-the-league-inside-the-bills-decisions-meetings-and-scouting-trips-that-led-to-josh-allen/ The video of inside the plane while they're hitting strong turbulence would be very interesting to see. Nothing crazy new or anything, but a good article going through their process. Good, solid read. Stuff like this is why I subscribe to The Athletic. Thanks for posting! 2
elroy16 Posted August 29, 2019 Author Posted August 29, 2019 27 minutes ago, jletha said: I disagree with you. While they were busy figuring out whether they were worth trading up for the Jets actually moved up and made their situation much more difficult. You can move up to 3 in the mean time and figure it out from there. If you determine you need to get to 2 then its a lot easier to get there from 3 than it is from 12. By delaying any decision at all until a full evaluation was done the Jets got up there and it made it almost impossible to get ahead of them. If Beane ultimately wanted Darnold after their evaluation, they screwed themselves. Of course we will never know and I dont want to imply that Beane did want Darnold, but the concept still applies. "so that they wouldn't be stuck with a high pick they paid a premium for and then not have a QB they loved when it was their time to pick." They were taking a QB 100% so they should be putting themselves in position to draft the guy of their choosing at all times, if you like the guy it doesnt matter that you had to trade up for him. For any other position you want to protect assets but for QBs, you go up and get them. By letting the Jets get ahead of them they were letting the Jets dictate part of their decision. The bolded makes sense and it would be very interesting to see their QB rankings/ratings. It's impossible to know if their strategy worked out well or if they were stuck with their second favorite. You make a fair point. I'm glad they did their due diligence before making the most significant jump up to the top 10, but I see your point. 1
Chandler#81 Posted August 29, 2019 Posted August 29, 2019 59 minutes ago, Augie said: I’m afraid it might have been very threatening to my seat cushion! That’s disgusting.? but funny? 1
Augie Posted August 29, 2019 Posted August 29, 2019 Just now, Chandler#81 said: That’s disgusting.? but funny? And TRUE!
Hapless Bills Fan Posted August 29, 2019 Posted August 29, 2019 4 hours ago, sherpa said: Mountain wave is an interesting phenomena, and very troubling when it occurs, but like most turbulence, it isn't threatening. It was probably the worst they'd experienced, and really unpredictable, but it's more a pain in the rear than anything threatening the airplane. Don't want to sidetrack, but true mountain wave can cause problems for commercial airliners. Not sure what the Pegulas fly, but depending upon what phase of flight they were in and what the flight conditions were, mountain wave can and has caused loss-of-control accidents. More likely upon approach, landing, or takeoff than at a flight phase where folks are still wandering about the aircraft which would be more enroute or initial descent. 51 minutes ago, Chandler#81 said: That’s disgusting.? but funny? "Ensign, bring me my BROWN pants!" 1
Tierlifer Posted August 29, 2019 Posted August 29, 2019 6 hours ago, Logic said: This article alone is a good reason to get a trial subscription to the Athletic, if you don't have one already. It's articles like this that make me feel that my money is well spent. Best money I’ve spent in years 1
TroutDog Posted August 29, 2019 Posted August 29, 2019 2 hours ago, jletha said: I disagree with you. While they were busy figuring out whether they were worth trading up for the Jets actually moved up and made their situation much more difficult. You can move up to 3 in the mean time and figure it out from there. If you determine you need to get to 2 then its a lot easier to get there from 3 than it is from 12. By delaying any decision at all until a full evaluation was done the Jets got up there and it made it almost impossible to get ahead of them. If Beane ultimately wanted Darnold after their evaluation, they screwed themselves. Of course we will never know and I dont want to imply that Beane did want Darnold, but the concept still applies. "so that they wouldn't be stuck with a high pick they paid a premium for and then not have a QB they loved when it was their time to pick." They were taking a QB 100% so they should be putting themselves in position to draft the guy of their choosing at all times, if you like the guy it doesnt matter that you had to trade up for him. For any other position you want to protect assets but for QBs, you go up and get them. By letting the Jets get ahead of them they were letting the Jets dictate part of their decision. In my opinion, their hesitation allowed them to also get Edmunds in the first as well. Their reasons for holding are well stated in the article. They played their cards right and it looks like they got an OQB and DQB all in one draft. Beane has proven, over two drafts now, that he is willing to deal when appropriate. At that time, knowing what he knew, it wasn’t the correct time. Obviously, he was correct: the Jets were already at 3 and he worked it after that. 1
sherpa Posted August 29, 2019 Posted August 29, 2019 1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Don't want to sidetrack, but true mountain wave can cause problems for commercial airliners. Not sure what the Pegulas fly, but depending upon what phase of flight they were in and what the flight conditions were, mountain wave can and has caused loss-of-control accidents. More likely upon approach, landing, or takeoff than at a flight phase where folks are still wandering about the aircraft which would be more enroute or initial descent. Per your claim, I'd like to know when mountain wave, which is a cruise altitude phenomena, which it was in this case, has caused "loss of control accidents." The Pegulas fly small private jets, but that isn't important regarding this incident.
Hapless Bills Fan Posted August 29, 2019 Posted August 29, 2019 31 minutes ago, sherpa said: Per your claim, I'd like to know when mountain wave, which is a cruise altitude phenomena, which it was in this case, has caused "loss of control accidents." The Pegulas fly small private jets, but that isn't important regarding this incident. Incorrect- mountain wave is NOT a cruise altitude phenomenon. It can extend from ground level to 35,000 ft, with the most destructive turbulence found 2000-3000 ft above mountain height (which is NOT cruise altitude for a jet). Wavelength is typically 2-25 nm (trough to peak) but satellite photos have shown wave effects extending literally hundreds of miles downwind from the range when conditions are right. Mountain wave has been shown to contribute to loss of control accidents at ground level and at what, for a jet, is approach altitude (for a small GA plane, it would be cruise altitude). "Small private jet" is a category of aircraft, not a descriptive of the type of aircraft the Pegulas fly. Could be anything from a Cessna Citation or a Lear, to a Dassault Falcon or bigger. Obviously the former will be more susceptible than the latter. As I said, don't want to sidetrack, so won't continue on this tack - read up on it or don't.
DrDawkinstein Posted August 30, 2019 Posted August 30, 2019 6 hours ago, sherpa said: Mountain wave is an interesting phenomena, and very troubling when it occurs, but like most turbulence, it isn't threatening. It was probably the worst they'd experienced, and really unpredictable, but it's more a pain in the rear than anything threatening the airplane. Right on. Turbulence sucks, but it takes a tremendous amount of wind to knock a jet with that much thrust out of the sky.
sherpa Posted August 30, 2019 Posted August 30, 2019 45 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: "Small private jet" is a category of aircraft, not a descriptive of the type of aircraft the Pegulas fly. Could be anything from a Cessna Citation or a Lear, to a Dassault Falcon or bigger. Obviously the former will be more susceptible than the latter. As I said, don't want to sidetrack, so won't continue on this tack - read up on it or don't. Not interested in sidetracking either. Small private jet is not a category. Airplane/helicopter/balloon/ are categories. What you are describing is windshear. It can be caused by the same thing, ie airflow perpendicular to surface obstructions that causes significant turbulence, but close to the surface it it termed windshear, and it doesn't matter if its a Citation, Falcon or any other aircraft. Windshear is windshear. They were at altitude, and it is called mountain wave at altitude.
Thurman#1 Posted August 31, 2019 Posted August 31, 2019 On 8/30/2019 at 2:17 AM, sherpa said: Mountain wave is an interesting phenomena, and very troubling when it occurs, but like most turbulence, it isn't threatening. It was probably the worst they'd experienced, and really unpredictable, but it's more a pain in the rear than anything threatening the airplane. On the contrary, there are crashes that are associated. Here's a case of a DC-8 that lost an engine and 19 feet of a wing, though it was able to land. https://airfactsjournal.com/2017/01/mountain-wave-invisible-threat/ Most mountain wave events aren't more than scary, but at it's worst it can be very dangerous and even deadly.
Thurman#1 Posted August 31, 2019 Posted August 31, 2019 On 8/30/2019 at 4:25 AM, elroy16 said: Beane talks about that. The last part is the most important. If they had traded up to say 3, then met with all of the QB's, and then realized they really only were in love with Mayfield and Darnold, they could have been screwed. In that case, maybe the Jets jump to 2 and then Mayfield and Darnold are gone and the Bills are sitting there with their thumb up their ass with no plan. I see what you're saying, but I don't think you should be disappointed by their timeline / plan. They wanted to do their due diligence so that they wouldn't be stuck with a high pick they paid a premium for and then not have a QB they loved when it was their time to pick. I disagree. The Jets aren't a great organization and so far I love Beane and McDermott, but they got out-planned and outmaneuvered by the Jets here. This is where they were at in January: "And thus, the Jets accomplish a goal. Based on the year-long focus on the position—Maccagnan had a scout live at just about every USC, UCLA, Oklahoma and Wyoming game—the feeling is they’re ahead of others in assessing the class. The hope is that readiness to pull the trigger before the market is fully developed could lead to a reasonable deal." https://www.si.com/nfl/2018/05/16/new-york-jets-sam-darnold-2018-draft The Jets consciously set out to be ahead of the other teams focused on getting a QB out of that class so that they could make an early trade. Smart, and it worked out just as they wanted. They put other teams, including us, in a terrible squeeze, knowing there were three QBs they would be happy with (Darnold, Mayfield and Rosen), so that if they got to 3rd, they'd be guaranteed one. But Darnold was their #1. Worked out OK for the Bills, and I'm sure the FO learned from it, but the Jets handled that just perfectly. 3
Thurman#1 Posted August 31, 2019 Posted August 31, 2019 On 8/30/2019 at 9:20 AM, sherpa said: Not interested in sidetracking either. Small private jet is not a category. Airplane/helicopter/balloon/ are categories. What you are describing is windshear. It can be caused by the same thing, ie airflow perpendicular to surface obstructions that causes significant turbulence, but close to the surface it it termed windshear, and it doesn't matter if its a Citation, Falcon or any other aircraft. Windshear is windshear. They were at altitude, and it is called mountain wave at altitude. Mountain wave is a subcategory of lee waves. Lee waves absolutely can happen at ground level. https://journals.ametsoc.org/doi/full/10.1175/JAMC-D-14-0270.1 And while wind shear is spoken of much more often at ground level, it's a phenomenon that happens at all altitudes, as are lee waves.
Buffalo Barbarian Posted August 31, 2019 Posted August 31, 2019 On 8/29/2019 at 11:13 AM, elroy16 said: Paid site, so I'll only post parts. The Athletic is well worth the price, tons of great articles. https://theathletic.com/1167351/2019/08/29/is-your-guy-ready-for-the-league-inside-the-bills-decisions-meetings-and-scouting-trips-that-led-to-josh-allen/ The video of inside the plane while they're hitting strong turbulence would be very interesting to see. Nothing crazy new or anything, but a good article going through their process. If that plane had crashed we were truly cursed, but it didn't so #Blessed ???
LeGOATski Posted August 31, 2019 Posted August 31, 2019 I loved that this thread half-way dissolved into an argument about turbulence.... Turn off your LAMPs I think we can all agree that mountain wave turbulence creates some of the prettiest clouds. On 8/29/2019 at 9:59 AM, Seasons1992 said: Things happen, and DON'T happen, for a reason. Our reason is coming soon. This is God's team 3
Beast Posted August 31, 2019 Posted August 31, 2019 On 8/29/2019 at 11:13 AM, elroy16 said: Paid site, so I'll only post parts. The Athletic is well worth the price, tons of great articles. https://theathletic.com/1167351/2019/08/29/is-your-guy-ready-for-the-league-inside-the-bills-decisions-meetings-and-scouting-trips-that-led-to-josh-allen/ The video of inside the plane while they're hitting strong turbulence would be very interesting to see. Nothing crazy new or anything, but a good article going through their process. Yes, seeing Kim Pegula bouncing up and down would be very interesting.
rayray808 Posted August 31, 2019 Posted August 31, 2019 for some reason my app is bugging out... if someone could PM me the article that would be appreciated... yes, I plan on eventually joining the Athletic because I hear great things but I just really want to read more about the story right now while I am enjoying this morning coffee ?
The Virginian Posted August 31, 2019 Posted August 31, 2019 The Frontier flight from Denver to Cheyenne, WY was nicknamed "The Vomit Comet". You could tell who the rookies were if they took a drink or coffee. Usually, they ended up wearing it.
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