Should we Trade Zay Jones?

[The Jokeman]

50 minutes ago, SCBills said:

If they think Duke Williams play translates to Regular Season Football, yes - or just cut him. 

 

It just seems like Zay is never on the same page with JA and maybe he just needs a fresh start.   

 

If Roberts is a lock.. Foster backs up Brown as the speed guy.  McKenzie backs up Beasley as the shifty guy and then Duke is the big, physical WR.  

 

 

 Not sure Roberts a lock. As McKenzie can return punts and has shown to be a playmaker on offense.

 

[Alphadawg7]

1 minute ago, dollars 2 donuts said:

 

 

I begrudge you nothing.  It hasn’t happened yet, but your thoughts and comments from that time are spot on so far and do warrant a victory lap, to a degree.

 

 

 

Not so much a victory lap, more defending my honor haha.  I mean people were in the shout box during this very game still saying I will never live that thread down lmao.  I stand by that thread 100% regardless if Zay is on this team week 1 or not

[DJB]

Would people feel better about Zay if lets say hes our 6th or 7th WR? 

 

Brown

Beasley 

Foster 

Roberts

Duke

McKenzie 

Zay

 

I mean im even trying to convince myself that he belongs on this team. But to me hes veen given ample opportunity and hes basically squandered it.

 

Poor hands with a ton of drops.  Penalties. What's holding him here? Draft position?

 

Management have said that hey are keeping the best players on the team regardless of draft position. 

 

Lets see if it holds true

[dollars 2 donuts]

Just now, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Not so much a victory lap, more defending my honor haha.  I mean people were in the shout box during this very game still saying I will never live that thread down lmao.  I stand by that thread 100% regardless if Zay is on this team week 1 or not

 

 

I disagreed with you vehemently.  Unless things change I am one of those who was wrong and owes you a beer.

[Freddie's Dead]

Zay Jones is the epitome of the mediocre WR's we've had here in the past 3 years.  Time to cut bait.  We have young hungry guys who have way more upside and actually catch the football.  All McKittrick and Williams do is make plays, time after time.  Zay doesn't.  He doesn't make that cut on the jet sweep and dive into the end zone.  He doesn't make that catch over another defender and take it in for the TD.  Instead, he drops a ball on the 1 yd line against the Panthers that was room service from JA.  McKittrick and The Duke catch that and score.  

 

As far as a trade, it's going to be difficult this close to the season.  Somebody will have to want him badly enough to grab him before he hits the streets, where anyone can claim him.  If someone offers a 4th or 5th, git 'r' dun.  6th or 7th, I might have to think about it for 10 seconds. 

[Jpsredemption]

I would in a heartbeat 

[VW82]

9 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

I hear ya, but if you recall the post...I said I thought Zay would be traded in preseason, not then the offseason. I made that post before Free Agency and I predicted we would bring in 2 to 3 new WR's, and we brought in 3 with Duke, Brown, and Cole.  I said I thought he would get every shot at this team but would struggle to stand out against better competition.  And if he slipped down the depth chart he could be a guy Beane would try and get some value for before being in a reserve role for a season would kill all trade value.  

 

Everything I suggested in February has pretty much gone that way so far.  The only thing left, is will he be traded (or even cut, but I still doubt he would get outright cut).  Brown took the top spot, Cole took the slot spot, and Zay has failed to lock down a starting spot and has not risen to the occasion anywhere during preseason and even dropped a TD last week and a first down this week with the ones.  

 

He still clearly has a shot to be a part of this team, but I think its proven out that the concerns I voiced then are still the concerns now and that his roster spot is not a lock.  

 

I recall and yes you called it but I still think it wouldn't have been the correct move. We couldn't predict for sure that we'd be successful bringing in so many new receivers with his talent.

 

Also, having Zay through this off season and camp had the added benefit of one good culture guy in the receivers room that really knew the offense. I'd argue that on its own is worth the 6th round pick or whatever we might have got for him.  

Edited August 24, 2019 by VW82

[keepthefaith]

The Bills are facing some tough decisions for the final 2-3 WR spots on this team.  Whatever they do though that position should be much upgraded from a year ago. 

[Alphadawg7]

Just now, dollars 2 donuts said:

 

 

I disagreed with you vehemently.  Unless things change I am one of those who was wrong and owes you a beer.

 

All good brother, you own me nothing.  All the disagreement was fair and warranted...it was always going to be a split subject.  But at least now, no one can say it was crazy or meritless as just about everything I wrote proved accurate.  Now whether or not that all equates to Zay being traded (or cut as some others suggested), is still up in the air.  But at least my thoughts have been validated.

[SCBills]

The credence I’ll give to the “Keep Zay” argument is that we haven’t seen him out there in the real, regular season offense, with John Brown and Cole Beasley.  

 

He’d be the 3rd WR out there and he does get open.  

 

Now, would Foster, McKenzie and Duke all look better in that role?  

 

Foster, I’m keeping because he’s shown big play, deep threat ability and we need that in our offense.  Even if he’s just John Brown depth.  

[Drunken Pygmy Goat]

 

6 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Zay had 4 against MIAMI.  Pump the brakes.  

 

Ok cool. You brought up Foster and 100 yard games; how many multiple TD games does he have under his belt?

 

I get that you took a ton of heat in your old thread, and maybe got backed into a corner and need to ride your prediction to the end, but the fact of the matter is that there are probably as many logical reasons for keeping Zay as there are logical reasons for moving on. We'll know soon enough how the staff feels about Zay. 

[McBean]

For what?

 

A bag of balls?

 

Give me Isiah McKenzie and Duke Williams over Zay Jones. All day.

[Dr.Mantis_Toboggan]

People seem so shocked that Zay could be the man out (he may not be, but hardly a lock to make it), as if 2nd round picks don’t bust all the time.  

Look back to the 2008 draft. Everybody was projecting Devin Thomas to Buffalo in the 1st, Buffalo took McKelvin. The 2nd round was littered with busts- Devin Thomas, James Hardy (RIP), Limas Sweed, Malcom Kelly all busts who were all highly touted. Two great WRs were selected in that round as well in the form of Jordy Nelson and Desean Jackson, but the bust % is very high on early round WRs.

Edited August 24, 2019 by Dr.Mantis_Toboggan

[Alphadawg7]

5 minutes ago, Drunken Pygmy Goat said:

 

 

Ok cool. You brought up Foster and 100 yard games; how many multiple TD games does he have under his belt?

 

I get that you took a ton of heat in your old thread, and maybe got backed into a corner and need to ride your prediction to the end, but the fact of the matter is that there are probably as many logical reasons for keeping Zay as there are logical reasons for moving on. We'll know soon enough how the staff feels about Zay. 

 

Im not saying they should not keep Zay...you said no other WR could outplay him and cited Foster...yet Foster did out play him in the final 7 games.  Zay not only had 2 TD's against Miami, but he also dropped a critical pass just before the Clay drop to end the game that basically cost us a win.  

 

So yes, he had multiple TDs, but you seem to forget he also helped us lose that same game.  Then the other 2 TD game was in week 17 against a Miami team who mailed it in.  If thats the best evidence to make his case in 31 career games as a starter, then thats not a strong foundation IMO.  

 

In 31 career games:

No 100 games

22 games under 40 yards recieving

Dropped the most passes on the team both years

Has a horrible catch rate for his career

Edited August 24, 2019 by Alphadawg7

[HappyDays]

He doesn't fit into this offense at all. Maybe he could be a mediocre starting receiver elsewhere but he and Allen don't have any kind of consistent connection going. If we could get a 5th for him I'd take it but I'm not sure if we could get that much.

[Alphadawg7]

1 minute ago, HappyDays said:

He doesn't fit into this offense at all. Maybe he could be a mediocre starting receiver elsewhere but he and Allen don't have any kind of consistent connection going. If we could get a 5th for him I'd take it but I'm not sure if we could get that much.

 

Zay is good enough to play in the NFL, but the question is if he is good enough to be a big part of an offense or is he better suited as a depth player.  Evidence so far to me suggests he's more likely to be a JAG WR (Just Another Guy), which is fine and could still have a long career.  

As a Bills fan though, I would rather take a chance on a guy like Duke who seems to do something specific exceptionally well (High point balls, contested catches, red zone threat) versus a guy who is just average or below average at everything.  At least then, you have a dedicated role for Duke where he could excel as a possession guy versus a guy thats unreliable with his hands and doesn't have a part of his game that he excels at...at least not yet.  I mean he can still get better of course.

[EasternOHBillsFan]

44 minutes ago, LOVEMESOMEBILLS said:

He was tied for 16th in the league with 7 Tds, even with our pathetic line, running game, QBing and nothing even close to a #1 WR to draw coverage away from him.

 

Sorry, but I don't want another Stevie Johnson here... we have Brown and Beasley, so keeping Zay around makes absolutely no sense. Whatever... don't understand this defense of a guy who was supposed to be very reliable but is anything but.

[Drunken Pygmy Goat]

2 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Im not saying they should not keep Zay...you said no other WR could outplay him and cited Foster...yet Foster did out play him in the final 7 games.  Zay not only had 2 TD's against Miami, but he also DROPPED a critical pass just before the Clay drop to end the game that basically cost us a win.  

 

So for all the 2 TD talk, you seem to forget he also helped us lose that same game.  Then the other 2 TD game was in week 17 against a Miami team who mailed it in.  IF thats the ONLY evidence to hold on to in 31 career games, then thats not a strong foundation to stand on.  

 

In 31 career games:

No 100 games

22 games under 40 yards recieving

Dropped the most passes on the team both years

Has a horrible catch rate for his career

 

But hey, he got those 4 TDs against Miami, which is also HALF his career TD production practically.  

 

That's not what I said.

 

To be honest, you make great points as to why he won't or shouldn't be here much longer. I guess I was just playing devil's advocate a bit. I want this team to be better, and if that means moving in from Zay, so be it. I have no personal affiliation to him, although I think we all would like for him to improve and be a part of the team being better.

 

Maybe he makes the final 53, but is traded before the week 8 deadline. If so, your prediction thread should be considered a "win" for you in my book.

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

50 minutes ago, LOVEMESOMEBILLS said:

What do you need to see out of Zay? Obviously he's not a #1 WR in the NFL, but I could see him being a good #2 WR in the league. With no #1 WR on the team last year, a bunch of bad QB play from 4 different starters and no running game he had 56 Rec, 652 Yds & 7 TDs with a 1.5 million dollar cap hit. The 7 TDs was tied for 16th in the league last year. That's really, really good value for 1.5 million. He has 2 years left on his contract with cap hits of 1.8 & 2.15 respectfully, there's no good reason to get rid of him when he makes that little.

 

 

I would not want to straight up cut Zay. He has value for our team. That said, I think Duke Williams should at least have the opportunity to play snaps ahead of or at least equal to Zay to see what Duke can bring to the offense. That will mean cutting Foster which may or may not happen. Or Roberts which could be a surprise move.

 

While his numbers overall look all right for a number two WR, Zay last year was targeted more like a high level two or low level #1. For all receivers with 100 or more targets last year Zay wad near dead last in catch rate, YPC and YPT.

[Alphadawg7]

1 minute ago, Drunken Pygmy Goat said:

 

That's not what I said.

 

To be honest, you make great points as to why he won't or shouldn't be here much longer. I guess I was just playing devil's advocate a bit. I want this team to be better, and if that means moving in from Zay, so be it. I have no personal affiliation to him, although I think we all would like for him to improve and be a part of the team being better.

 

Maybe he makes the final 53, but is traded before the week 8 deadline. If so, your prediction thread should be considered a "win" for you in my book.

 

Its all good...I edited but you replied before you got the edit.  Didnt mean my first pass to sound snarky...was just trying to emphasize some points.  

 

But like I said, its all good.