The Bills need to keep Duke Williams

[Bangarang]

7 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said:

It would be silly to say Duke will be a better receiver than Hines.

 

I didn't say that he would be.

 

If you and the other fanboys want to keep bickering, I'll be happy to do it one on one via PM. 

 

Oy vey...You said he was more of a receiving threat than Hines Ward. How do you not understand that’s what you are being criticized for? Instead of just admitting it was a foolish thing to say you are desperately trying to save face and argue something nobody said.

Edited September 6, 2019 by Bangarang

[Royale with Cheese]

21 minutes ago, Bangarang said:

 

Oy vey...You said he was more of a receiving threat than Hines Ward. How do you not understand that’s what you are being criticized for? Instead of just admitting it was a foolish thing to say you are desperately trying to save face and argue something nobody said.

 

[BigDingus]

6 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

You're saying it was ridiculous before even a regular season snap?

 

How very dingus like.

 

How does that logic make any sense?

Is it more likely that out of aaaaaaaaaaallllllllllllll players in the league, he is an MVP candidate (fyi - that prediction being made before a single regular season snap)

Or...and stay with me here, OR he's just not.

Considering only a handful of people out of 1600+ people are even up for consideration, and another 1600+ just ARE NOT up for consideration, which do the odds favor? Oh, "before even a regular season snap?" 

Gee, which is more "dingus-like" again?

The odds that show 99% of people in the league, even the great ones, are NOT MVP candidates, or the blind hope idea that our QB just magically will be? Tell me again, which is more nonsensical?

[billsfan_34]

If Andre Roberts is a no go Sunday, will the Dukester get elevated to the 53 and dress with the 46?

[transplantbillsfan]

48 minutes ago, Bangarang said:

 

Oy vey...You said he was more of a receiving threat than Hines Ward. How do you not understand that’s what you are being criticized for? Instead of just admitting it was a foolish thing to say you are desperately trying to save face and argue something nobody said.

 

I understand why you would interpret it that way, but that statement was lumped in context with the previous 3 lines.

 

And it was intended to be lumped with those lines in the context of my statement about style.

 

Didn't feel I needed to specify, but I apologize, next time I'll try to specify so there are no misunderstandings.

5 minutes ago, billsfan_34 said:

If Andre Roberts is a no go Sunday, will the Dukester get elevated to the 53 and dress with the 46?

 

No, because we'd have to cut or IR someone.

[billsfan_34]

7 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

I understand why you would interpret it that way, but that statement was lumped in context with the previous 3 lines.

 

And it was intended to be lumped with those lines in the context of my statement about style.

 

Didn't feel I needed to specify, but I apologize, next time I'll try to specify so there are no misunderstandings.

 

No, because we'd have to cut or IR someone.

Thats right! 

[BigDingus]

I mean, we kept 5 tight ends. didn't we? 

 

I really think we'd have been ok with only 4, and keeping Duke instead...but maybe I'm just not privy to the super sweet triple TE packages we're planning to run.

[Bangarang]

39 minutes ago, billsfan_34 said:

If Andre Roberts is a no go Sunday, will the Dukester get elevated to the 53 and dress with the 46?

 

Id be shocked if Roberts wasn’t playing

[Beane/Allen]

5 hours ago, BigDingus said:

I mean, we kept 5 tight ends. didn't we? 

 

I really think we'd have been ok with only 4, and keeping Duke instead...but maybe I'm just not privy to the super sweet triple TE packages we're planning to run.

I predict both Matt Barclay and Duke Williams will be NFL starters by years end, and won't relinquish their roles for years to come.

 

And I'm not knocking anyone by making this prediction. 

 

In fact, kudos to Beane for resigning Barclay and for getting Williams. 

[JoPar_v2]

5 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

I understand why you would interpret it that way, but that statement was lumped in context with the previous 3 lines.

 

And it was intended to be lumped with those lines in the context of my statement about style.

 

Didn't feel I needed to specify, but I apologize, next time I'll try to specify so there are no misunderstandings.

 

No, because we'd have to cut or IR someone.

 

You’re embarrassing yourself at this point. Can we just put Duke aside for a while? There’s a non-zero chance he’s going to get called up at some point this season anyways; he’ll get to likely play. 

 

I know you’re still losing your ***** because Zay made the roster and CFL man didn’t, but pulling out Hines Ward comparisons and whatnot is beyond silly.

[LSHMEAB]

On 9/4/2019 at 9:57 PM, Shaw66 said:

Frankly, I think Duke was the victim of some NFL bias.  When you bust in college like Duke did, then bust in the NFL like Duke did, the NFL isn't interested in your little comeback story.

We're talking about 32 GM's deciding the guy wasn't roster worthy. It's not a league decision. Duke isn't blacklisted or anything outlandish like that. He's just not that good. Big, plodding receiver unable to create separation. There just aren't enough situations that warrant this type of player. You could use a TE for anything you'd get from Duke. 

 

GM's would overlook his college incident in 1 SECOND if they thought he was the player many here seem to believe him to be. Nice story. Below average player. 

[JoPar_v2]

Just now, LSHMEAB said:

We're talking about 32 GM's deciding the guy wasn't roster worthy. It's not a league decision. Duke isn't blacklisted or anything outlandish like that. He's just not that good. Big, plodding receiver unable to create separation. There just aren't enough situations that warrant this type of player. You could use a TE for anything you'd get from Duke. 

 

GM's would overlook his college incident in 1 SECOND if they thought he was the player many here seem to believe him to be. Nice story. Below average player. 

THANK YOU

[Beane/Allen]

Or maybe he's just not quite ready yet? 

 

Or maybe the roster has guys that fit Allen's strengths?  If Barclay gets a chance this year, we may actually see Williams too. 

[Rocky Landing]

5 hours ago, LSHMEAB said:

We're talking about 32 GM's deciding the guy wasn't roster worthy. It's not a league decision. Duke isn't blacklisted or anything outlandish like that. He's just not that good. Big, plodding receiver unable to create separation. There just aren't enough situations that warrant this type of player. You could use a TE for anything you'd get from Duke. 

 

GM's would overlook his college incident in 1 SECOND if they thought he was the player many here seem to believe him to be. Nice story. Below average player. 

Both sides of this discussion have gone off the rails a bit, and are creating bogus narratives. He's not a burner like Brown, or Foster. He's not a quick-cut guy like Beasley, or McKensie. He's a strong, tall redzone threat, with reliable hands. He's an exceptional blocking WR, he has average speed, and an enormous catch radius. This narrative that he's a "big, plodding receiver unable to create separation" is not supported by anything we have seen of him in a Bills uniform. And to say that there "aren't enough situations that warrant this type of player" willfully ignores this guy's obvious talent. IMHO, having someone who could pull down a contested ball in tight coverage in stride seems pretty valuable.

[Alphadawg7]

6 hours ago, LSHMEAB said:

We're talking about 32 GM's deciding the guy wasn't roster worthy. It's not a league decision. Duke isn't blacklisted or anything outlandish like that. He's just not that good. Big, plodding receiver unable to create separation. There just aren't enough situations that warrant this type of player. You could use a TE for anything you'd get from Duke. 

 

GM's would overlook his college incident in 1 SECOND if they thought he was the player many here seem to believe him to be. Nice story. Below average player. 

 

This isn’t really fair though.  32 NFL GMs didn’t give Foster a chance either.  People over exaggerate this part because the reality is that all teams already have their own “Duke” projects.  It’s rare a PS squad guy is in high demand.  I mean Bills led NFL with most guys claimed during cut downs, and that was 3 guys out of 37 cut players.  

 

The truth is, there are very very few roster spots available after cut downs.  Teams already made their own tough cuts with guys who already know the system and playbook.  Very few get claimed and put on the active 53.

 

Then it’s players choice if multiple teams want him for PS.  For all we know, lots of teams could have invited him to their PS and he chose to stay with the Bills.

 

And the number 1 reason he didn’t make the Bills 53 is special teams needs.  McKenzie had a strong preseason too, but he also is a good ST player.  None of our other WRs outside of Roberts whose only a returner has much to offer on ST.  Cole and Brown will never play ST, and Zay and Foster have no real experience there either.  

 

I would bet that Duke will be in a 53 sometime during this season if he keeps fighting the way he is.  

Edited September 6, 2019 by Alphadawg7

[LOVEMESOMEBILLS]

1 hour ago, Rocky Landing said:

Both sides of this discussion have gone off the rails a bit, and are creating bogus narratives. He's not a burner like Brown, or Foster. He's not a quick-cut guy like Beasley, or McKensie. He's a strong, tall redzone threat, with reliable hands. He's an exceptional blocking WR, he has average speed, and an enormous catch radius. This narrative that he's a "big, plodding receiver unable to create separation" is not supported by anything we have seen of him in a Bills uniform. And to say that there "aren't enough situations that warrant this type of player" willfully ignores this guy's obvious talent. IMHO, having someone who could pull down a contested ball in tight coverage in stride seems pretty valuable.

If he had that kind of obvious talent, he'd be on the 53. Also he has below average speed for a WR, if you compare his time vs what WRs ran this year only 1 WR ran a slower time. Between 2005-2012 the average WR 40 yard time was 4.48. I couldn't find anything more up to date than that, but that was 7-14 years ago and the NFL only gets faster every year.

[Rocky Landing]

19 minutes ago, LOVEMESOMEBILLS said:

If he had that kind of obvious talent, he'd be on the 53. Also he has below average speed for a WR, if you compare his time vs what WRs ran this year only 1 WR ran a slower time. Between 2005-2012 the average WR 40 yard time was 4.48. I couldn't find anything more up to date than that, but that was 7-14 years ago and the NFL only gets faster every year.

If you're referring to his combine numbers, then you are unaware, or ignoring what happened to him leading up to the combine. Honestly, though, the bias you have shown in this thread is probably the most egregious, and I've found myself ignoring your posts for that reason. 

[Patrick Duffy]

5 minutes ago, Rocky Landing said:

If you're referring to his combine numbers, then you are unaware, or ignoring what happened to him leading up to the combine. Honestly, though, the bias you have shown in this thread is probably the most egregious, and I've found myself ignoring your posts for that reason. 

Exactly and I agree. And when I said something along those line and told the poster he seemed clueless to the situation he cried and ran to the ignore button lol

[Alphadawg7]

1 hour ago, LOVEMESOMEBILLS said:

If he had that kind of obvious talent, he'd be on the 53. Also he has below average speed for a WR, if you compare his time vs what WRs ran this year only 1 WR ran a slower time. Between 2005-2012 the average WR 40 yard time was 4.48. I couldn't find anything more up to date than that, but that was 7-14 years ago and the NFL only gets faster every year.

 

You are wrong again.  He’s not on the 53 because McKenzie is a good ST player and NONE of our other WRs will contribute much to ST outside of Roberts who only returns kicks.  

 

Its not because he can’t play WR, otherwise they wouldn’t have kept him on the PS.

[LOVEMESOMEBILLS]

23 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

You are wrong again.  He’s not on the 53 because McKenzie is a good ST player and NONE of our other WRs will contribute much to ST outside of Roberts who only returns kicks.  

 

Its not because he can’t play WR, otherwise they wouldn’t have kept him on the PS.

Please don't put words in my mouth or try to spin what I said, I haven't done it to you. I didn't say he couldn't play WR, I don't know where you're getting that from, what I said and have said is he can't play WR good enough. His skill set at WR, on it's own, was not and has not been good enough to merit a spot on any team's 53, which is a fact no one can argue with. My argument all along is he's a one dimensional player, who's too slow to play WR in the NFL outside of the redzone. Duke not playing special teams is just part of him being one dimensional.

 

If Beane & coach feel they have a spot open to bring him up to be a redzone threat, do I think they should do it....Hell yeah, that's the area on the field I firmly believe he's really good. Outside of the redzone, I'd rather throw to a guy who can create separation than a guy who can catch contested balls. That's my preference, it doesn't have to be yours. I have nothing against Duke and didn't know much of him early on this year, but he's been talked up on this board since February including a thread title stating he was "better than any of the WR draft prospects" or he'll be fighting for the #1WR spot. To be honest I was expecting more once he hit the field. 

 

The people who like him, like to make excuses whether it's about: they're not playing in pads yet or he's 4 years removed from college, 26 years old and still failed to crack the 53 or he wasn't claimed off waivers when Ray Ray was or the fact he's slow and his 40 time vs other WRs shows it. As I said before, I believe the comeback story has been better than the comeback player. But make no mistake, if Duke cracks the 53 and starts getting on the field, I will be rooting for him just as hard as anyone on this board. Just my opinion.