LOVEMESOMEBILLS Posted August 29, 2019 Posted August 29, 2019 6 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said: Hey it’d be cool if he end up being good, but I’m not sure he is athletic enough to be a nfl wr. Absolutely!! You hit the nail on the head. It's exactly what I've been saying since I first saw him in game action. He lacks speed, ability to separate & doesn't run crisp routes. If you don't have those abilities then you're not going to make it as a WR in the NFL. Making the switch to TE, I believe he will have a better chance of a long, impactful career in the league. He's 6'3" 225 pounds, blocks well and has good hands. Put on 25-30 pounds and switch to TE.
Patrick Duffy Posted August 29, 2019 Posted August 29, 2019 (edited) 59 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said: Hey it’d be cool if he end up being good, but I’m not sure he is athletic enough to be a nfl wr. Yes and I totally agree it would be cool if he could make it. My point was that another poster suggested he was not rising up the depth chart and wasn't doing nothing when he clearly was. I mean that chart that's listed (if I'm not mistaken) is the same list that was posted from around when TC started. So what I mean is you can't really go on a list that hasn't been updated or really any list because they will have him listed in the mix with McCloud, and those other guys anyway. You can only really go by what he has done to earn himself a handful of snaps with the 1s. And yes, that's not many, but the fact is he worked himself up to that point by impressing the coaches. hence why I suggested the other poster seemed clueless to the situation and only going by a "list" from July. Edited August 29, 2019 by Patrick_Duffy
Alphadawg7 Posted August 29, 2019 Posted August 29, 2019 1 hour ago, LOVEMESOMEBILLS said: Absolutely!! You hit the nail on the head. It's exactly what I've been saying since I first saw him in game action. He lacks speed, ability to separate & doesn't run crisp routes. If you don't have those abilities then you're not going to make it as a WR in the NFL. Making the switch to TE, I believe he will have a better chance of a long, impactful career in the league. He's 6'3" 225 pounds, blocks well and has good hands. Put on 25-30 pounds and switch to TE. What are you watching? He ran crisp routes and he made multiple slant catches where he separated and got the first down to go along with his 2 TD catches, one of which he beat his man to the corner and laid out for the TD catch. Its like some of you read he isn’t blazing fast and made your own narratives up despite what he’s done on the field here and before here. 1 1
LOVEMESOMEBILLS Posted August 29, 2019 Posted August 29, 2019 (edited) 23 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said: What are you watching? He ran crisp routes and he made multiple slant catches where he separated and got the first down to go along with his 2 TD catches, one of which he beat his man to the corner and laid out for the TD catch. Its like some of you read he isn’t blazing fast and made your own narratives up despite what he’s done on the field here and before here. Really, I didn't see it. Last game he got half of his catches in the preseason and ended the game with 3/15/1. Outside of the 16 Yard TD his other 2 catches netted minus 1 yard, yup great separation there. Also not sure how he's getting first downs, when outside of the 2 TD catches he has numbers like that. To the end part of the bolded, the only thing he's done in the NFL, outside of this year, is catch 2 balls for 10 yards the only 2 games he played in the 2016 preseason. So in 4 preseason games he's ever played in he's caught 8 balls for 63 yards & 2 TDs against garbage players who have no future in football.He's averaging less than 8 yards a catch in his 4 game preseason career. He doesn't get separation and it shows in his numbers, his 2 best plays were contested jump balls!! Please don't waste your time giving me CFL stats, I could care less what he did against players that couldn't make an NFL roster. To the first part of the bolded, this seems awfully close to you with Zay for the last several months, doesn't it? Sorry Alpha, I normally agree with your opinion quite a bit, but your views with Duke & Zay, I believe, are skewed. But then again that's just my opinion just like it's just your opinion on this matter. We'll have to wait and see what happens. Edited August 29, 2019 by LOVEMESOMEBILLS
Alphadawg7 Posted August 29, 2019 Posted August 29, 2019 3 minutes ago, LOVEMESOMEBILLS said: Really, I didn't see it. Last game he got half of his catches in the preseason and ended the game with 3/15/1. Outside of the 16 Yard TD his other 2 catches netted minus 1 yard, yup great separation there. Also not sure how he's getting first downs, when outside of the 2 TD catches he has numbers like that. To the end part of the bolded, the only thing he's done in the NFL, outside of this year, is catch 2 balls for 10 yards the only 2 games he played in the 2016 preseason. So in 4 preseason games he's ever played in he's caught 8 balls for 63 yards & 2 TDs against garbage players who have no future in football.He's averaging less than 8 yards a catch in his 4 game preseason career. He doesn't get separation and it shows in his numbers, his 2 best plays were contested jump balls!! Please don't waste your time giving me CFL stats, I could care less what he did against players that couldn't make an NFL roster. To the first part of the bolded, this seems awfully close to you with Zay for the last several months, doesn't it? Sorry Alpha, I normally agree with your opinion quite a bit, but your views with Duke & Zay, I believe, are skewed. But then again that's just my opinion just like it's just your opinion on this matter. We'll have to wait and see what happens. All good to have differing opinions, so no worries. But I’m confused, are you saying he can’t separate and can’t run crisp routes by checking a stat box? Only thing I can say is watch any number of the highlight reels from this preseason in this thread and I see a guy who separates enough and made some impressive catches on precise routes. But it’s not what I think of course, it’s what the coaches see. But given he seems to be recenly climbing up the depth chart, my inclination is to think the coaches see something they have been liking too. 2
Patrick Duffy Posted August 29, 2019 Posted August 29, 2019 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said: All good to have differing opinions, so no worries. But I’m confused, are you saying he can’t separate and can’t run crisp routes by checking a stat box? Only thing I can say is watch any number of the highlight reels from this preseason in this thread and I see a guy who separates enough and made some impressive catches on precise routes. But it’s not what I think of course, it’s what the coaches see. But given he seems to be recenly climbing up the depth chart, my inclination is to think the coaches see something they have been liking too. According to that poster he isn't, or hasn't and has not done nothing, careful he will take his ball and run home to the ignore button when you prove that he has Edited August 29, 2019 by Patrick_Duffy
Don Otreply Posted August 29, 2019 Posted August 29, 2019 (edited) Depth charts are always in flux during preseason, and were not always accurate compared to who actually played a given position, the teams are required to post them before preseason games, and little effort to being accurate is put forward at this time of year. Go Bills!!! Edited August 29, 2019 by Don Otreply 1
Dablitzkrieg Posted August 29, 2019 Posted August 29, 2019 Yes they should keep Duke and cut Zay Jones as well!
LOVEMESOMEBILLS Posted August 29, 2019 Posted August 29, 2019 27 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said: All good to have differing opinions, so no worries. But I’m confused, are you saying he can’t separate and can’t run crisp routes by checking a stat box? Only thing I can say is watch any number of the highlight reels from this preseason in this thread and I see a guy who separates enough and made some impressive catches on precise routes. But it’s not what I think of course, it’s what the coaches see. But given he seems to be recenly climbing up the depth chart, my inclination is to think the coaches see something they have been liking too. No, the plays that are stuck in my mind are plays where the defender was right with him, including both TD receptions and his other 2 catches last week that got the team nothing. The stats just reaffirm what I'm seeing. In each game he had a 16 yards catch(One of those was a tightly covered jump ball), his other 4 catches were for 21 yards or slightly above 5 yards a catch. But the problem is you can't see the obvious separation Zay gets, that's what makes your opinion skewed. He was open on a lot of plays playing against either #1 or #2 CBs of the opposing teams last year(I get this was due to our weak WR group). He also got a lot better with the drops as the season rolled on last year. I'll take the proven NFL tested guy vs the guy who hasn't faced any 1st string NFL CBs aside from a few plays last week, in which he had zero targets until the 1st team's defense was on the sidelines after halftime. Obviously Zay isn't a #1 WR for the team, but easily could keep improving into a really good #2 WR. As the #3 WR, which I believe he will be this year, he will be an excellent choice. Duke would do himself good to put on weight and make the move to TE. There I think he could excel in routes vs a LB or Safety. Once again JMO. 1
Philo Posted August 29, 2019 Posted August 29, 2019 I like Zay more than most around here, but the whole separation argument is kind of the point with Duke and his skill set. He catches those contested balls that Zay just does not. Separation does not mean as much when he out mans the defender for the ball. My two cents.
Alphadawg7 Posted August 29, 2019 Posted August 29, 2019 27 minutes ago, LOVEMESOMEBILLS said: No, the plays that are stuck in my mind are plays where the defender was right with him, including both TD receptions and his other 2 catches last week that got the team nothing. The stats just reaffirm what I'm seeing. In each game he had a 16 yards catch(One of those was a tightly covered jump ball), his other 4 catches were for 21 yards or slightly above 5 yards a catch. But the problem is you can't see the obvious separation Zay gets, that's what makes your opinion skewed. He was open on a lot of plays playing against either #1 or #2 CBs of the opposing teams last year(I get this was due to our weak WR group). He also got a lot better with the drops as the season rolled on last year. I'll take the proven NFL tested guy vs the guy who hasn't faced any 1st string NFL CBs aside from a few plays last week, in which he had zero targets until the 1st team's defense was on the sidelines after halftime. Obviously Zay isn't a #1 WR for the team, but easily could keep improving into a really good #2 WR. As the #3 WR, which I believe he will be this year, he will be an excellent choice. Duke would do himself good to put on weight and make the move to TE. There I think he could excel in routes vs a LB or Safety. Once again JMO. So you are saying Zay gets open and drops perfect TD pass. Duke you say doesn’t gets open and still finds a way to go get the TD...twice. Give me the guy who may not be as fast but goes up and makes the play and scores. Take that guy every time in my book. 1 1
Patrick Duffy Posted August 29, 2019 Posted August 29, 2019 13 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said: So you are saying Zay gets open and drops perfect TD pass. Duke you say doesn’t gets open and still finds a way to go get the TD...twice. Give me the guy who may not be as fast but goes up and makes the play and scores. Take that guy every time in my book. Agree 100%. 1
LOVEMESOMEBILLS Posted August 29, 2019 Posted August 29, 2019 9 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said: So you are saying Zay gets open and drops perfect TD pass. Duke you say doesn’t gets open and still finds a way to go get the TD...twice. Give me the guy who may not be as fast but goes up and makes the play and scores. Take that guy every time in my book. Like I said we'll see. Duke hasn't been able to make an NFL roster since he first tried in 2016. Like I said I'll take the guy who caught 7 TDs last year, in real NFL action os opposed to a guy who caught 2 TDs in his 4 preseason game career against subpar competition. One is real the other.....not so much. 1
Alphadawg7 Posted August 29, 2019 Posted August 29, 2019 (edited) 24 minutes ago, LOVEMESOMEBILLS said: Like I said we'll see. Duke hasn't been able to make an NFL roster since he first tried in 2016. Like I said I'll take the guy who caught 7 TDs last year, in real NFL action os opposed to a guy who caught 2 TDs in his 4 preseason game career against subpar competition. One is real the other.....not so much. No disrespect, but you’re skewing that to sound worse. He played last two years in CFL because he had to redeem his reputation, but you're phrasing it like he keeps getting tryouts and cut last 2 years. Bills are only his second chance at an NFL roster, and after dominating in CFL he’s done more with his chances than Zay did this preseason. Zay dropped a TD and blew another third down pass that should have been a first down. Duke has caught all the catchable balls thrown his way, caught two TDS and made key blocks on other first down and TD scores. Im not saying he is a lock, that’s up to the coaches. But he’s done more than Zay this preseason and more than the other WRs he’s also competing with. Now it’s up to the coaches who they feel helps this team the most once the real games start. Edited August 29, 2019 by Alphadawg7 2
Rocky Landing Posted August 29, 2019 Posted August 29, 2019 17 minutes ago, LOVEMESOMEBILLS said: Like I said we'll see. Duke hasn't been able to make an NFL roster since he first tried in 2016. Like I said I'll take the guy who caught 7 TDs last year, in real NFL action os opposed to a guy who caught 2 TDs in his 4 preseason game career against subpar competition. One is real the other.....not so much. I think you may have missed some of Duke's backstory, which is one of the things that makes him such an intriguing player for fans. He was a star out of HS, and at Auburn, but was kicked out of Auburn for a drunken bar brawl he was involved in. He wasn't able to play a snap of football for months leading up to the combine. He spiraled down from there, and got his life together in the CFL. I don't know how much of his story (outside of raw stats) you're aware of, but a lot of your knocks on him seem to miss, or ignore his history. What we're seeing in these last couple preseason games is the potential that many saw in him start to play out. I'm proud to say that I predicted this, myself-- that once the pads came on, and the real hitting started, was when we would see Duke excel. I posted back in the Spring that if Duke made the 53, he could be the best blocking WR we've ever had. He's been showing that aptitude in the last two games, as well. You shouldn't ignore, or downplay that potential. 2 1
ddaryl Posted August 29, 2019 Posted August 29, 2019 (edited) I don't see how you do not keep Duke on this roster. he brings a different aspect to our WR group that is desperately missing. He showed he can ace the high point grab, he showed he is a willing blocker.. Gonna be hard to not keep him IMO Edited August 29, 2019 by ddaryl 1 1
Rocky Landing Posted August 29, 2019 Posted August 29, 2019 It'll be interesting to see how much playing time they give him tonight. The fewer snaps he gets, the more likely they're putting him on the roster. We'll know soon enough, I guess.
ddaryl Posted August 29, 2019 Posted August 29, 2019 (edited) 22 hours ago, LOVEMESOMEBILLS said: Every depth chart I look at, they have Zay on the first team and Duke on the fourth team. Your only argument is how he's impressing the coaches so much lol!!! The coaches are so impressed he's 4th string? Come on, get out of here with your nonsense.???? https://www.buffalobills.com/team/depth-chart https://www.espn.com/nfl/team/depth/_/name/buf https://www.ourlads.com/nfldepthcharts/depthchart/BUF https://www.lineups.com/nfl/depth-charts/buffalo-bills He played with the 1s in the 3rd preseason game which is the final tune up for the 1s and he looked good. I have to believe Duke is getting serious consideration for his red zone / blocking capabilities. He was key block on a long run by Gore Edited August 29, 2019 by ddaryl
Bray Wyatt Posted August 29, 2019 Posted August 29, 2019 8 minutes ago, Rocky Landing said: I think you may have missed some of Duke's backstory, which is one of the things that makes him such an intriguing player for fans. He was a star out of HS, and at Auburn, but was kicked out of Auburn for a drunken bar brawl he was involved in. He wasn't able to play a snap of football for months leading up to the combine. He spiraled down from there, and got his life together in the CFL. I don't know how much of his story (outside of raw stats) you're aware of, but a lot of your knocks on him seem to miss, or ignore his history. What we're seeing in these last couple preseason games is the potential that many saw in him start to play out. I'm proud to say that I predicted this, myself-- that once the pads came on, and the real hitting started, was when we would see Duke excel. I posted back in the Spring that if Duke made the 53, he could be the best blocking WR we've ever had. He's been showing that aptitude in the last two games, as well. You shouldn't ignore, or downplay that potential. Ok and what about Zay? He was a star in college, was a high draft pick, made the team, and has improved from year to year, does he not get a chance to see if he can reach his potential? I get that people like Duke and the underdog story he seems to have, and I do think he needs to be on this team just bc of the attitude he has (Zay I think would benefit from this attitude). This isnt a one or the other option, but it seems as if people seem to acknowledge that Duke can grow, but ignore that Zay can as well
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