Is this best secondary the Bills have ever had?

[bbb]

5 hours ago, NewEra said:

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/1965_AFL/probowl.htm

 

got me interested in this team.  Is this link wrong?  Looks like it says the Bills has 36 players make the pro bowl in 1965.  Lol

 

Lot of depth on that team  

6 minutes ago, That's No Moon said:

Mario Clark, Charlie Romes, Jeff Nixon, Steve Freeman and Rod Kush were pretty good....

 

Bill Simpson should be in that group, too 

[That's No Moon]

3 minutes ago, bbb said:

 

Lot of depth on that team  

 

Bill Simpson should be in that group, too 

I didn't put him there because I'm pretty sure he wasn't signed until after both Nixon and Kush tore their knees up.

[Ethan in Cleveland]

32 minutes ago, BarkleyForGOATBackupPT5P said:

Probably. One more CB and I'd definitely crown them. Still wish we kept Gilmore or Darby around to make it the next Legion of Boom. You get 2 CB1s lined up every down with pro bowl safeties around them and you have a competitive advantage only teams like Seattle back in the day, Denver's No Fly Zone with Aqib Talib and Chris Harris Jr, Pats with Gilmore / Browner / Revis / Butler / Chung / Mcourtney / Logan.. I think it's a smart way to build a great team.

 

But yeah they're great. Poyer and Hyde have been my favorite signings from this regime. The Safety position went from hopeless to one of the NFL best overnight.

McD let Gilmore walk and then blew a 3rd round comp pick to keep a 6th WR and a terrible Guard.

But McD also signed Hype and Poyer. I really liked the Hyde signing at the time and I did not think much of the Poyer signing.

I wish we could find out the truth as to how much of these moves were Whaley and how much was McD.  They had the cap room to keep Gilmore at least on a franchise tag. Oh well

[bbb]

6 minutes ago, That's No Moon said:

I didn't put him there because I'm pretty sure he wasn't signed until after both Nixon and Kush tore their knees up.

 

Nixon, for sure, but my memory is that he came in and played great in his place - about 10 games in '80 and then didn't he make the INT vs. the Jets at the end in the playoffs in '81?  

[That's No Moon]

Just now, bbb said:

 

Nixon, for sure, but my memory is that he came in and played great in his place - about 10 games in '80 and then didn't he make the INT vs. the Jets at the end in the playoffs in '81?  

Yes

[bbb]

Just now, That's No Moon said:

Yes

 

Then put him on your list!  ?

[NewEra]

48 minutes ago, bbb said:

 

Lot of depth on that team  

 

Bill Simpson should be in that group, too 

Thirty-six Bills made the pro bowl in 1965!!  Can anyone tell me how this is possible?  Did 90 players per conference make it?

[mrags]

5 hours ago, NewEra said:

For sure.  That’s what the stat should be imo. Times voted in NOT as an alternate

 

and even than, it can be tricky.  Ruben Brown was named to the initially team more than a few times where he didn’t deserve it.  He was named based on his past play imo 

That... and a huge party that he used to throw every year when he was in Hawaii. 

[mrags]

2010: McKelvin, McGee, Whitner, Byrd

 

2013: Gilmore, McKelvin, Byrd, Leonard

 

not saying they are 100% better but those were some pretty good DBs at the time. 

[Dr.Sack]

Winfield & Clements were bomb

[BADOLBILZ]

 

Not the most talent but potentially the best combination of talent and secondary specific coaching/scheme.

 

McD is basically a secondary coach...........this situation is a lot like the special teams when Marv was HC.

[Chandler#81]

1 hour ago, That's No Moon said:

Mario Clark, Charlie Romes, Jeff Nixon, Steve Freeman and Rod Kush were pretty good....

Indeed! For my money, Saimes, Janik, Edgerson & Byrd

[bbb]

1 hour ago, That's No Moon said:

Yes

 

I just looked up their stats.  Kush never even started a game - until a few in 1983.  Simpson started 11 games in 1980.  (Coinciding with my memory of him stepping in for NIxon after Nixon tore his ACL in the Chargers game - game 5).  He also started all 16 in 1981 and 9 (I think that's all they played) in 1982. 

 

Get Kush out of there.  Bill Simpson was the man!  

[from_dunkirk]

7 hours ago, freddyjj said:

Lol.  Every guy in Bills secondary made it that year.  Never happened with any other nfl team in same year since.   So that 65 team was unreal.  

 

In 1984 the entire San Francisco 49'ers secondary made the Pro Bowl:

 

Ronnie Lot

Eric Wright

Carlton Williamson

Dwight Hicks

 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/sfo/1984_roster.htm

[bbb]

I was just going to nominate the '74 Bills.  Tony Greene had 9 INTS.  I could have swore he at least made the Pro Bowl, but I don't see it.............Robert James was 1st Team All Pro................Dwight Harrison I remember as being good.  But, I can't figure out who even played strong safety.  

[formerlyofCtown]

I'll let you know in Nov or Dec.

12 hours ago, Ethan in Portland said:

White is a legit top 5 CB. Hyde and Poyer are both top 20 safeties, not elite but fringe ProBowl players. And the depth for legit CBs is 4 or 5 deep.  Gaines coming off IR late in the season is like getting a Christmas present that was forgotten in the closet.

Winfield/Clements was a great CB duo but the safeties were terrible - Milloy in decline and Coy Wire was awful.

Odomes was very good but the rest of the secondary was average or below. 

Butch Byrd is greatest DB in Bills history. But I really don't know much else about the rest of the guys he played with. I thought the Bills AFL defense's were built around DL and LBs, but I may be wrong.

Didnt Gaines get released.

[formerlyofCtown]

11 hours ago, SoTier said:

In 1992, the Bills had Kirby Jackson, Nate Odomes who made the Pro Bowl in 1992, Henry Jones, an All Pro SS in 1992, and Mark Kelso.  That was probably the best secondary the Bills had since the merger.   Jackson's suffered a career ending injury after leaving Buffalo for Seattle, so he only played 5 years.

 

I don't care who the Bills other safety was in 2003 but Winfield, Clements, and Milloy were all Pro Bowlers either for the Bills or for other teams, so I'd rate them second best. 

• Winfield's last season with the Bills was 2003.  He went on to start for 9 more seasons with Minnesota and was a three time Pro Bowler.
• Clements last season with the Bills was 2006.  He went on to start 4 more seasons for San Francisco and 1 more for Cincinatti.
• Milloy played for the Bills for 3 seasons, 2003-2005.  He then went on to start for 3 seasons in Atlanta and played 2 more seasons in Seattle, starting 15 games in 2010, so he was hardly "washed up" in 2003.

Since none of the current Bills DBs has been a Pro Bowler or been named a top 100 player, it's hard to make the case that they are "the best secondary ever".  They play well in McDermott's scheme but except for White, they don't seem to be outstanding individuals.  Other Bills squads have had 1 outstanding individual among pretty average players that played well as a unit.

 

Y'know for a team that supposedly has this "elite level" secondary and an "elite" defense, the Bills sure couldn't stop teams from scoring on them in the Red Zone in 2018.  Maybe that's why the rest of the NFL and media ignore them when it comes to handing out honors.

You do realize that now the PB is voted on by fans. Even the top 100 isnt completely legit as players vote on it and many players that belong are overlooked.

[The Bills Blog]

12 hours ago, The Jokeman said:

As a group yes, I'm not 100% sold on Levi as a starter but like our nickel and dime CBs yet I think scheme and coaching also plays a part as McDermott McDermott/Frasier know zone coverage.

Would you feel differently if he weren't undrafted?

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

So in inferring the conclusion is no... not the best ever 

[CLTbills]

I haven’t been around as long as some on this board, but I think I can safely say this is the best defensive backfield I’ve ever seen for the Bills. Watching them in person was even more impressive. On TV, you only see that second that the ball gets there. But watching the progression of plays live on Friday night was eye-opening as far as how good they are. That was my biggest takeaway leaving BofA Stadium Friday night - how good our DBs are.