Ruben Brown on Mitch Morse: “It Might Be It For Him” & Carwell Gardner is “Severely Suffering”

[Logic]

Is Brown basing this on ANYTHING at all, or is it just complete conjecture?

[Big C]

15 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said:

 

Dude, he hasn't retired yet.

 

 

 

It's over. Ruben Brown has spoken!

[MJS]

1 hour ago, Binghamton Beast said:

Ruben Brown likes to hear himself talk without knowing what the ***** he is saying.

Agreed. Great player, but why would he know anything about concussions, especially since he claimed to never have one? He's not a doctor.

[Matt_In_NH]

Carwell Gardner crushed a Washington defender on 4th and 1 at the goal line in SB26...demolished the due but yeah that was his style. Sorry to hear he is not well.  I also remember him tacking a guy with his legs on a special teams play.

[MJS]

19 minutes ago, Big C said:

First Wood gets extended and then forced to retire, now Morse? Some bad luck there. 

What are you talking about?

[JohnBonhamRocks]

Fun fact: Brown avoided concussions later on in his career by slowly turning into a turnstile.

[Nextmanup]

1 hour ago, That's No Moon said:

Wonder what helmet he's using these days.  I saw a presentation by Vicis. Those are pretty impressive in terms of energy dissipation.  If my kid played football he'd wear one of those. 

Yeah, but you can't do anything about inertia, and your brain is always going to smack your skull, regardless of what type of helmet you are wearing.  

 

There is also a lot of data suggesting it's not the big "bell ringer" of a concussion that does the long term damage, but rather, thousands of little impacts over time.

 

My kid wouldn't play football!  The odds of him doing it for a living are close to zero, at which point he's just out there to get some exercise, experience team building, maybe exhibit some leadership skills, etc.

 

You can do those things in many other ways without suffering brain damage.

 

 

[That's No Moon]

1 minute ago, Nextmanup said:

Yeah, but you can't do anything about inertia, and your brain is always going to smack your skull, regardless of what type of helmet you are wearing.  

That's true, but you can slow the accelerations.  Mine isn't allowed to play football either.  Hockey is bad enough.

[Nextmanup]

41 minutes ago, Phil The Thrill said:

 

Ruben actually talks about documented concussions.  Says that there really is no way to tell that a player has been concussed.  This is why he said Morse needs to be careful, because if he’s prone to concussions he could very well have more than the 3 documented cases

I always think about these comments from Troy Polamalu in 2012 when this topic comes up.

 

"I've had, I believe, eight or nine recorded concussions. We'll have another conversation after I'm done playing football," Polamalu told the show. "When you get your bell rung they consider that a concussion -- I wouldn't ... If that is considered a concussion, I'd say any football player at least records 50 to 100 concussions a year."

 

Full Article here:

 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/8177905/troy-polamalu-pittsburgh-steelers-admits-lied-concussions

Edited August 16, 2019 by Nextmanup

[mjt328]

1 hour ago, BillsVet said:

They had a major need at center, knew about Morse's concussion history, and still went forward with the contract.  (Cue someone to say Beane didn't know he'd get another concussion). 

 

People here talk about Beane's management of the cap and how he maneuvered the team into a solid position after Whaley.  Yet, he's the guy who signed players like Star to a bloated contract, gave a thrice concussed Morse a big contract, and traded for Benjamin who flamed out fast.  He may not be as bad as Dugout Doug 2013-2016, but he's showing signs his command of personnel and dollars isn't as great as advertised.

 

For McBeane's sake, they'd better be a 10 or more win team this year.  Because not doing so is going to shine a bigger spotlight onto the whiffs in free agency.

 

 

It's fair to criticize a GM's moves.  But you should take all factors into consideration.

In the case of Mitch Morse, what other option would you have preferred?

 

Matt Paradis was the only other Free Agent Center worth pursuing.  He was also coming off an injury, and has yet to participate in either training camp or preseason for the Panthers.  You can't criticize us for taking one guy with an injury history, while at the same time criticizing us for NOT taking another guy with an injury history.  

 

If we had gambled and waited until the draft, there were basically two good Center prospects.  One was Garrett Bradbury, who went #18 to the Vikings.  Drafting him would have either cost us (not getting) Ed Oliver, or a significant trade-up from the 2nd Round... very likely our 2nd rounder (Cody Ford) AND a 2020 first rounder. 

 

The second prospect was Erik McCoy, who went #48 to the Saints.  OK, that sounds more realistic.  But to draft him, we would have either passed on Cody Ford (who was a significantly higher rated player on most boards than McCoy) or swung some kind of trade, which likely would cost us Devin Singletary and Dawson Knox... in which case everyone freaks out because of Beane's failure to adequately address Running Back and Tight End.

 

In my opinion, Morse was a calculated gamble.  If the concussions end up becoming an issue, it will be due to bad luck, not mismanagement by our front office.

 

[DCofNC]

1 hour ago, Joe in Winslow said:

 

Absurd. Name one cap=crippling contract like Dareus. I'll wait.

 

What you forget was Dareus was an All Pro and the scrubs we are talking about from Beane aren't even top 100 players.  That said: 

 

Morse if he can't play again.  20.4 M dead cap right now. 

 McCarron, Davis ate 7.6M in cap space for nothing. 

Ivory took 3.2M last year

Murphy took 7.87M last year 

 

So go ahead and tell me 

4 sacks and 385 yards were worth 18.7M last season.. 

 

I'll wait.

[MAJBobby]

Contract isn’t bad. If he ends his career early really Bills have an out after next year. Not a huge issue. 

[Augie]

1 hour ago, Binghamton Beast said:

Ruben Brown likes to hear himself talk without knowing what the ***** he is saying.

 

I wish he knew the snap count more often, but that seemed to escape him.  

[3rdand12]

57 minutes ago, wppete said:

Really hope that is not the case and Mitch Morse comes back fully healthy. 

 

I do feel a lot of people are sleeping on John Feliciano. If Morse has to miss time I think Feliciano could be a good replacement. This guys is Huge, smart, athletic, mean, and a mauler. Think he is a great signing for us. 

 

one thing that might be under rated, Bills really covered the bases this offseason with O line. 

 Just impressive in mho.

working Felciano and Long at Center shows they knew the risks with Morse and...

 likely knew Bodine was  "iffy" . lol

[billsbackto81]

57 minutes ago, wppete said:

Really hope that is not the case and Mitch Morse comes back fully healthy. 

 

I do feel a lot of people are sleeping on John Feliciano. If Morse has to miss time I think Feliciano could be a good replacement. This guys is Huge, smart, athletic, mean, and a mauler. Think he is a great signing for us. 

 

It's starting to look like he may be the most important FA signing next to Cole Beasley and John Brown. Hope Morse is ok to play cause Feliciano is a monster at Guard.

[Augie]

14 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

Contract isn’t bad. If he ends his career early really Bills have an out after next year. Not a huge issue. 

 

I would certainly expect it to be created that way. This was a known risk. They gambled, and may just have lost on this one. You take your shots and hope you win more than you lose. 

[K-9]

19 minutes ago, DCofNC said:

What you forget was Dareus was an All Pro and the scrubs we are talking about from Beane aren't even top 100 players.  That said: 

 

Morse if he can't play again.  20.4 M dead cap right now. 

 McCarron, Davis ate 7.6M in cap space for nothing. 

Ivory took 3.2M last year

Murphy took 7.87M last year 

 

So go ahead and tell me 

4 sacks and 385 yards were worth 18.7M last season.. 

 

I'll wait.

20/20 foresight is so much more impressive than 20/20 hindsight. Can you please link us to all your posts objecting to the above signings WHEN THEY OCCURRED? 

 

We’ll wait. 

 

 

[Phil The Thrill]

1 hour ago, unbillievable said:

 

That was NOT an average team.  Seriously, look at the roster. Find a glaring hole outside of Quarterback.

Whaley's team was loaded with talent. They under-performed, mostly because of Rex.

 

I remember some articles stating the Bills had built the most complete roster in the NFL... talent everywhere... if only they had found a QB (poor EJ).

I would compare Whaley's team to pre-Cousins Vikings, or the current Jaguars...

 

The team can sue to get the signing bonus back, as well as the guaranteed money.

That's the reason why many players choose to NOT file retirement paperwork, and wait for the team to cut them, instead.

 

It's something they should put into contracts, but no player would agree to it, especially the medical guarantee.

 

You are heavily biased toward Whaley, that is for sure.  There were weaknesses at several positions.  Didn’t the Bills trot Corbin Bryant on the field to start at DT?  Below Average.  John Miller at guard?  Below average.  Bacarri Rambo as starting safety.  Below average.   But I guess the team was “loaded.”  Yeah.

 

You never addressed my main point - Whaley has no vision or any idea how to build long term success.  He had no plan.

 

If anything Whaley was a poor man’s Daniel Synder.  He tried stacking talent, managed the cap poorly, and had no idea how to build a winner.

 

He has been exiled to the XFL for very good reason.  Whaley is not a GM

Edited August 16, 2019 by Phil The Thrill

[unbillievable]

15 minutes ago, Phil The Thrill said:

 

You are heavily biased toward Whaley, that is for sure.  There were weaknesses at several positions.  Didn’t the Bills trot Corbin Bryant on the field to start at DT?  Below Average.  John Miller at guard?  Below average.  Bacarri Rambo as starting safety.  Below average.   But I guess the team was “loaded.”  Yeah.

 

You never addressed my main point - Whaley has no vision or any idea how to build long term success.  He had no plan.

 

If anything Whaley was a poor man’s Daniel Synder.  He tried stacking talent, managed the cap poorly, and had no idea how to build a winner.

 

He has been exiled to the XFL for very good reason.  Whaley is not a GM

You are heavily biased against him

 

The starters at DT were Dareus and Williams. Rambo and Bryant were backups... can't really predict suspensions and injuries; although they played well in spot duty. Miller was average, but reliable; anytime you can get a 3rd round pick to start as a rookie, is a win. 

 

Waley's roster was his vision... and he plugged every hole; even Quarterback was somewhat addressed with Tyrod.  What was lacking was the culture, the process, also known as the Head Coach.

 

...And the fact that he butted heads with Marone proved he had a vision of how he wanted HIS players used.  Unfortunately, because of the hole at quarterback, his "vision" morphed into building a run heavy team, enter Tyrod and Rex... it might have worked too... but, while his offense managed to be respectable, Rex ruined a great defense, which got both of them fired.

 

 

 

 

Edited August 16, 2019 by unbillievable

[BuffAlone]

If its it for Morse, that sucks. If Gardner suffers, without help, or a giant contract, that sucks even more! Hoping they are covered with insurance