Josh Criticized for same throw Mayfield Praised For

[dave mcbride]

1 minute ago, Element115 said:

 

Look at the position of receivers' feet in both catches.  

Allen put it exactly where it was supposed to be -- not leading him out in front of him because that's the throw that will get him killed (or possibly get picked off). Jones was already looking back, and didn't have to slow down at all. And he didn't even have to reach - the throw was at eye level (perfect) and right in his hands. Anyone who doesn't think that was basically a perfect throw needs to watch a lot more football. 

 

By the way, as anyone can tell you here, I've been critical of Allen's accuracy. I got roasted last season here for not blaming Charles Clay on that final throw vs. Miami. The point is that I'm hardly a homer with regard to Allen. But that was a damn good throw.

[Element115]

Just now, dave mcbride said:

Allen put it exactly where it was supposed to be -- not leading him out in front of him because that's the throw that will get him killed (or possibly get picked off). Jones was already looking back, and didn't have to slow down at all. And he didn't even have to reach - the throw was at eye level (perfect) and right in his hands. Anyone who doesn't think that was basically a perfect throw needs to watch a lot more football. 

 

By the way, as anyone can tell you here, I've been critical of Allen's accuracy. I got roasted last season here for not blaming Charles Clay on that final throw vs. Miami. The point is that I'm hardly a homer with regard to Allen. But that was a damn good throw.

 

Point your toes forward and look back to catch a football from a friend.  Do the same thing with your toes pointing 90 degrees, and 0 degrees to the QB.  Let me know if you feel a difference  

 

The Mayfield and Allen passes are not the same because the receivers' positions were not the same.  Ball placement, a component of accuracy. It's an issue with Allen, it was an issue pre-draft with Allen, hence the reason it is still a point of discussion.

[buffaloboyinATL]

2 hours ago, BisonMan said:

Watching highlights this weekend, I repeatedly say replays of a throw that Mayfield made for a TD on a long pass down the middle to a WR in the end zone, who subsequently got creamed by the safety behind him.

 

Josh makes a very similar throw through a tight window that Zay drops before getting creamed by the safety behind him. 

 

Mayfield was widely praised for this score while Allen was criticized by a variety of commentators (including Tasker) for risking his WR on such a tight window throw with a safety behind him. 

 

Go figure. 

I could be wrong, but I don’t remember Tasker criticizing the throw. I thought he praised the throw and said Zay would likely have avoided the hit by catching the ball.  

2 minutes ago, Element115 said:

 

Point your toes forward and look back to catch a football from a friend.  Do the same thing with your toes pointing 90 degrees, and 0 degrees to the QB.  Let me know if you feel a difference  

 

The Mayfield and Allen passes are not the same because the receivers' positions were not the same.  Ball placement, a component of accuracy. It's an issue with Allen, it was an issue pre-draft with Allen, hence the reason it is still a point of discussion.

If you are arguing that a QB is inaccurate if they don’t get the ball aligned to the receiver so that they are completely facing the QB, that is ridiculous. Hitting a receiver in stride on a crossing pattern or making an over the shoulder catch would preclude this. Perhaps I am misunderstanding your point?

[Element115]

11 minutes ago, buffaloboyinATL said:

I could be wrong, but I don’t remember Tasker criticizing the throw. I thought he praised the throw and said Zay would likely have avoided the hit by catching the ball.  

If you are arguing that a QB is inaccurate if they don’t get the ball aligned to the receiver so that they are completely facing the QB, that is ridiculous. Hitting a receiver in stride on a crossing pattern or making an over the shoulder catch would preclude this. Perhaps I am misunderstanding your point?

 

On the Allen throw, square in the numbers is NOT where you want ball placement, on the Mayfield throw, it IS where you want it.

[oldmanfan]

1 minute ago, Element115 said:

 

On the Allen throw, square in the numbers is NOT where you want ball placement, on the Mayfield throw, it IS where you want it.

Ball placement is a measure of precision and not accuracy

[DaBillsFanSince1973]

32 minutes ago, APoxOnYou said:

This board is pretty much insufferable.

not really, just a few try to make it that way. key word, try.

[Doc]

Zay dropped a perfectly thrown pass.  Any NFL WR can and should make that catch.  I've heard the argument about the sun getting in his eyes, but he obviously saw it coming and got his hands on it so that doesn't excuse him. 

 

As for the criticism he got and Mayfield didn't, who cares?  I know what I saw.

[buffaloboyinATL]

5 minutes ago, Element115 said:

 

On the Allen throw, square in the numbers is NOT where you want ball placement, on the Mayfield throw, it IS where you want it.

I would argue that Allen put it on Zay specifically so he could catch it and protect himself. Had it been any further in front of him, the safety would have been able to separate him from the ball rather than hit him after the “catch”. I guess we saw it differently.

[DaBillsFanSince1973]

9 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

Ball placement is a measure of precision and not accuracy

he and 50% are the same troll. just ignore them, scroll right over their posts and carry on the discussion with someone who isn't trying so hard to spread their agenda thread after thread. it's actually quite easy to do, the less you interact, the less they/it becomes relevant to the discussion.

Edited August 13, 2019 by DaBillsFanSince1973

[Element115]

6 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

Ball placement is a measure of precision and not accuracy

 

Consistent precision is a measure of accuracy.  Accuracy is a major contributor to completion percentage.  The main reason Allen's completion percentage is so low is because he is so inconsistent. See Aaron Rodgers for the opposite of Allen when it comes to consistency.

[John from Riverside]

And the moral to this story is as it has been

 

If the WR catches the ball.....the QB is awesome

 

If the WR drops the ball......the QB is inaccurate, non clutch, indecisive (take your pick)

 

Pass catchers need to help out our QB......for sure on the passes that hit them right in the hands....but even on ones that are not perfect.

[Bevis]

3 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

And the moral to this story is as it has been

 

If the WR catches the ball.....the QB is awesome

 

If the WR drops the ball......the QB is inaccurate, non clutch, indecisive (take your pick)

 

Pass catchers need to help out our QB......for sure on the passes that hit them right in the hands....but even on ones that are not perfect.

 

Just ask Eli Manning how that works.

[K-9]

46 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

The pass was right on the money, so why are we even debating this, at least with regard to this pass??

Been wondering that myself. I can only conclude it’s because of a larger predetermined narrative about Allen. As we’ve seen with a certain poster who insists on digressing into discussion about Allen’s 52.8 completion percentage, which has NOTHING to do with Jones’s lack of playmaking ability on dropped pass.

[Bevis]

4 minutes ago, K-9 said:

Been wondering that myself. I can only conclude it’s because of a larger predetermined narrative about Allen. As we’ve seen with a certain poster who insists on digressing into discussion about Allen’s 52.8 completion percentage, which has NOTHING to do with Jones’s lack of playmaking ability on dropped pass.

 

I really hope Jones gets cut.

[K-9]

3 minutes ago, Bevis said:

 

I really hope Jones gets cut.

I’d be shocked if he did. 

 

But not surprised in the least.

[Bevis]

Just now, K-9 said:

I’d be shocked if he did. 

 

But not surprised in the least.

 

He's just not going to work out, I think it would be best to move on sooner rather than later.

[GoBills808]

2 hours ago, Element115 said:

 

It was late, which located it behind Jones. Still should have been caught.

Jones throw/drop was late? 

[John from Riverside]

1 hour ago, Element115 said:

 

Look at the position of receivers' feet in both catches.  

Are you the new board king of dip ***** posts?

[Dat]

If you actually watch the clip, Zay has his head turned and is tracking the ball as it leaves JA's hand, if it was behind him then it was on Zay (it wasn't unless his helmet was on backwards). If you watch frame by frame the ball hits his hands and his head is already turning towards endzone/safety before he secured it.Again on Zay. I have no doubt that Brown or Beasley catch that ball, score and are not badly hit. JA had some bad throws that night, but this one was money.

[Bevis]

I wish the Bills had Moulds as a rookie in 2018, he'd pair up well with Allen.