Josh and our HC

[Rocket94]

57 minutes ago, LSHMEAB said:

Arm strength will always be an issue as well. Be nice if he had a little more heat on his throws.

Yeah, that was the knock on him at Wyoming! ha!

[Patrick Duffy]

2 hours ago, HappyDays said:

Not only does he have a slow release, he is also a midget and looks terrible in shorts.

 

Yup, and his girl is ugly as dammit.   ?

[Meatloaf63]

6 hours ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

 

If you have to ask "could he have caught the ball?" It no longer qualifies as a drop.  If the WR has to make a miraculous play to get it, the ball doesn't fall under the heading of "catchable" 

Certainly, which was it?

[Ralonzo]

13 hours ago, eball said:

From Jim Kubiak -- who analyzes QB play for the Buffalo News -- in this article:

 

it was clear in Thursday night's preseason opener against the Indianapolis Colts that Allen is miles ahead of where he was this time last season.

That begs the question, how much can he grow, and what will his growth mean to the Bills?

 

Allen was very poised and in command in his limited action against the Colts in front of a home crowd, leading the Bills during the first two drives of the game. He completed 6 of 11 passes for 66 yards in 16 offensive plays, and rushed for 8 yards while scrambling for a first down.

He looked comfortable in the pocket, reading and deciphering coverage and making throws accurately and on time. Allen’s performance grade in his 16 plays was near perfect at 95%, accounting for just one missed throw that occurred while attempting a curl route to his right on third-and-6 of the first drive.

 

Rewatching Allen's series again.

1) (1-10) Long to Sweeney, off his fingertips because he's held and draws the flag. Otherwise, accurate. +

2) (1-10) Pump fake, dart to Beasley as he separates from a backer. Called back for hold. Dead-on accurate +

3) (1-19) Long to Jones, overthrown by 2 yards, not enough air. Not put up for grabs either, it's either Zay or nobody catching it -

4) (2-19) Ten yard dig to Beasley on a line, on the money, gain of 13. +

5) (3-6) Went through 2 reads at least, took off for first down scramble. +

6) (1-10) Looked like the 3rd read was a dump off to Gore. Accurate, gain of 4. +

7) (2-6) First read is shut down, scrambles right, looks at 2 other options, throws it away. Calling it a + since that's the way he's being coached.

8 ) (3-6) This is the throw Tasker and everyone else jumped on him for. To me this isn't that bad a throw, missed by maybe a foot or two, because he's trying to be too careful with putting it low and away from the defender and where only Zay can get it. It's not a WTF throw. It's a miss but no potential for disaster. It hurts because it's a 3rd down. We'll call it -

 

1) (1-10) Handoff Gore +

2) (2-5) Handoff Singletary +

3) (3-5) Zay on a dig for 8. Looked like first read. +

4) (1-10) Brown is isolated on left sideline and Allen offers a back-shoulder throw but Brown continued route. Not sure who's fault, but the ball is where you'd expect a back shoulder to be. Call it a minus if you want -

5) (2-10) Blown coverage on Jones goes for 23, Allen leads him OB, or might have gone further. But it's a completion. +

6) (1-10) Handoff Gore +

7) (2-8) Brown on a sideline dig is 5 yards open, ball is on the money. +

8 ) (1-10) The post to Jones that was dropped, but that ball is a dime. +

9) (2-10) Jailbreak sack on the naked bootleg. Allen gets to the ground, protects the possession. +

10) (3-21) Hard count draws NZ infraction. +

11) (3-16) Roberts on the same route just completed to Brown, for 8, to set up a 40 yard FG which Hauschka doinks. +

 

So I have him at 16/19 (84%) efficiency in execution counting the penalty snaps, even grading harshly. Of those misses:

1) Led receiver too far (no play on the ball by defense)

2) Led receiver too low and away from defender (no play on the ball by defense)

3) QB and receiver expecting something different (no play on the ball by defense)

 

This all results in 0 points, sure, but to the eye test this actually looked like an NFL offense for the first time in a while.

 

Observations:

- If Allen is as accurate on those digs and outs during the year, this offense will move. Defenders cannot react fast enough to that velocity even at the 10-15 yard depth. They have no chance to stop it without guessing and gambling. Hopefully Daboll dials up some double-move action later in games/season as a result.

- Zay before the drop looked pretty decent. I was down on him after the game but on the rewatch, the body of work was pretty good.

- With Allen and the hard-count, I want to see OL coached NOT to move or touch the opponent, or the center should snap it as soon as they're in the NZ. We know Allen has shown he is situationally aware of the free play and can make his hero throws down the field in that circumstance.

 

Edited August 11, 2019 by Ralonzo

[Stallions]

18 hours ago, BigDingus said:

I'm a fan of Josh, I just don't think he's going to be the guy.

With that being said, I don't think we can take away much from a preseason game, even if he looked amazing.

We saw Peterman look pretty damn good with the offense last preseason, didn't mean a thing.

My main issue with Allen as a player is that his success depends on him becoming a player he's never been before at any level... Unlike a lot of QB's that needed time to develop into great players in the NFL, Allen wasn't exactly lighting it up during his college career either.

Example: you may see some QB's just put up insane numbers and play out of their minds in college, then hope that one day they can perform that way in the pros. You want to get them to that same level, only against higher competition. Mahomes for instance put up ridiculous numbers & carried Texas Tech as best he could, and seeing that made you think "man, if he could do that in the pros he'd be great!"

But even if you got Allen's absolute best in college, only now in the NFL, that wouldn't be anything great. If you're drafting a QB hoping they can play as great as they did in the past, Allen wouldn't be the guy you'd draft. In other words, the coaching staff was under the impression that they had the tools to make him into an elite QB themselves, something other coaches haven't been able to do yet.

 

And therein lies the issue. McDermott is a great Defensive minded HC, but he doesn't appear to be the best QB evaluator out there. This is the same guy who thought we were so perfectly ok at the QB position that we didn't need a veteran at the position to help groom Allen, and that we also were perfectly fine trading away McCarron, and perfectly fine starting Nathan Peterman.... Then he proceeds to yank the guy he was so confident in by halftime, and forces the rookie 1st round pick, who was known to be the most raw QB of the big 4 drafted, into game action already....

Took him a while to realize how dumb that was, then snagged Anderson as quickly as he could, that backfired, then had to grab Barkley out of a park to just have ANYONE to trot out there. Luckily Barkley ended up playing great, but the entire situation was botched from the start.

TL;DR - McDermott hasn't shown that he even knows how to evaluate the QB position, Allen hasn't ever played like a great QB at any level, so hoping McDermott & Co. can coach him into a player he's never shown he can be, only now in the NFL, seems really, REALLY unlikely. 

 

THANK YOU for an honest reply!  It's refreshing on this board!

[John from Riverside]

18 hours ago, BigDingus said:

I'm a fan of Josh, I just don't think he's going to be the guy.

With that being said, I don't think we can take away much from a preseason game, even if he looked amazing.

We saw Peterman look pretty damn good with the offense last preseason, didn't mean a thing.

My main issue with Allen as a player is that his success depends on him becoming a player he's never been before at any level... Unlike a lot of QB's that needed time to develop into great players in the NFL, Allen wasn't exactly lighting it up during his college career either.

Example: you may see some QB's just put up insane numbers and play out of their minds in college, then hope that one day they can perform that way in the pros. You want to get them to that same level, only against higher competition. Mahomes for instance put up ridiculous numbers & carried Texas Tech as best he could, and seeing that made you think "man, if he could do that in the pros he'd be great!"

But even if you got Allen's absolute best in college, only now in the NFL, that wouldn't be anything great. If you're drafting a QB hoping they can play as great as they did in the past, Allen wouldn't be the guy you'd draft. In other words, the coaching staff was under the impression that they had the tools to make him into an elite QB themselves, something other coaches haven't been able to do yet.

 

And therein lies the issue. McDermott is a great Defensive minded HC, but he doesn't appear to be the best QB evaluator out there. This is the same guy who thought we were so perfectly ok at the QB position that we didn't need a veteran at the position to help groom Allen, and that we also were perfectly fine trading away McCarron, and perfectly fine starting Nathan Peterman.... Then he proceeds to yank the guy he was so confident in by halftime, and forces the rookie 1st round pick, who was known to be the most raw QB of the big 4 drafted, into game action already....

Took him a while to realize how dumb that was, then snagged Anderson as quickly as he could, that backfired, then had to grab Barkley out of a park to just have ANYONE to trot out there. Luckily Barkley ended up playing great, but the entire situation was botched from the start.

TL;DR - McDermott hasn't shown that he even knows how to evaluate the QB position, Allen hasn't ever played like a great QB at any level, so hoping McDermott & Co. can coach him into a player he's never shown he can be, only now in the NFL, seems really, REALLY unlikely. 

I disagree with you

and that’s fine

13 hours ago, Niagara Dude said:

Our QB will be fine,  i think Sean will be fired after this season. 

Oh I smell a bet coming

[Meatloaf63]

17 minutes ago, Stallions said:

 

THANK YOU for an honest reply!  It's refreshing on this board!

Not honesty, just an unsupported personal opinion, it’s refreshing to you because of the thousands here, one person supports your warped view. 

[JoshAllenHasBigHands]

48 minutes ago, Meatloaf63 said:

Certainly, which was it?

It was not a drop 

[VW82]

6 hours ago, Chandler#81 said:

Is it your trolling intent to post this take on every thread? You’ve made yourself abundantly and nauseatingly clear. Now give it a rest. 

 

For the record, and because you asked, no it is not. The comment you replied to addressed OP's question about whether McD might bench Josh to save his job. I haven't shared that take anywhere recently. If what you're really suggesting is to take a break from discussing Allen, then OK. You're right, I've made my point. It's not my intention to spam those discussions. 

[Warcodered]

36 minutes ago, Ralonzo said:

 

Rewatching Allen's series again.

1) (1-10) Long to Sweeney, off his fingertips because he's held and draws the flag. Otherwise, accurate. +

2) (1-10) Pump fake, dart to Beasley as he separates from a backer. Called back for hold. Dead-on accurate +

3) (1-19) Long to Jones, overthrown by 2 yards, not enough air. Not put up for grabs either, it's either Zay or nobody catching it -

4) (2-19) Ten yard dig to Beasley on a line, on the money, gain of 13. +

5) (3-6) Went through 2 reads at least, took off for first down scramble. +

6) (1-10) Looked like the 3rd read was a dump off to Gore. Accurate, gain of 4. +

7) (2-6) First read is shut down, scrambles right, looks at 2 other options, throws it away. Calling it a + since that's the way he's being coached.

8 ) (3-6) This is the throw Tasker and everyone else jumped on him for. To me this isn't that bad a throw, missed by maybe a foot or two, because he's trying to be too careful with putting it low and away from the defender and where only Zay can get it. It's not a WTF throw. It's a miss but no potential for disaster. It hurts because it's a 3rd down. We'll call it -

 

1) (1-10) Handoff Gore +

2) (2-5) Handoff Singletary +

3) (3-5) Zay on a dig for 8. Looked like first read. +

4) (1-10) Brown is isolated on left sideline and Allen offers a back-shoulder throw but Brown continued route. Not sure who's fault, but the ball is where you'd expect a back shoulder to be. Call it a minus if you want -

5) (2-10) Blown coverage on Jones goes for 23, Allen leads him OB, or might have gone further. But it's a completion. +

6) (1-10) Handoff Gore +

7) (2-8) Brown on a sideline dig is 5 yards open, ball is on the money. +

8 ) (1-10) The post to Jones that was dropped, but that ball is a dime. +

9) (2-10) Jailbreak sack on the naked bootleg. Allen gets to the ground, protects the possession. +

10) (3-21) Hard count draws NZ infraction. +

11) (3-16) Roberts on the same route just completed to Brown, for 8, to set up a 40 yard FG which Hauschka doinks. +

 

So I have him at 16/19 (84%) efficiency in execution counting the penalty snaps, even grading harshly. Of those misses:

1) Led receiver too far (no play on the ball by defense)

2) Led receiver too low and away from defender (no play on the ball by defense)

3) QB and receiver expecting something different (no play on the ball by defense)

 

This all results in 0 points, sure, but to the eye test this actually looked like an NFL offense for the first time in a while.

 

Observations:

- If Allen is as accurate on those digs and outs during the year, this offense will move. Defenders cannot react fast enough to that velocity even at the 10-15 yard depth. They have no chance to stop it without guessing and gambling. Hopefully Daboll dials up some double-move action later in games/season as a result.

- Zay before the drop looked pretty decent. I was down on him after the game but on the rewatch, the body of work was pretty good.

- With Allen and the hard-count, I want to see OL coached NOT to move or touch the opponent, or the center should snap it as soon as they're in the NZ. We know Allen has shown he is situationally aware of the free play and can make his hero throws down the field in that circumstance.

 

Taking out the handoffs and the sack and it's still up at 75%.

11 minutes ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

It was not a drop 

Right it was a bad pass sure it wasn't one of those WTH was he doing passes and it was close enough that maybe a foot closer could of been an okay-good pass but it still was a bad one he owns it and it's pretty clear.

[Nextmanup]

22 hours ago, Stallions said:

I thought Josh looked very poor in the 1st pre-season game.  The same accuracy issues as last year and the lack of game instincts.  His release is slow and if he keeps running the ball when he feels no receiver is open he'll get hurt. 

 

As a LEADER for the offense he seems very immature.  A lot of nice talk to the media and in his Buffalo area commercials but he just doesn't come-off as THE GUY!!

 

With the HC in his 3rd season he needs WINS!  Will he allow Josh to decide his fate???

 

Yes, McBeane are absolutely tied at the hip with Allen.  They will all sink or swim together.

 

I do not think it's too early to go in a different direction with the lot of them at the end of this season, if it doesn't all start to come together.  It depends entirely on how things play out. Should be interesting in that regard.  

 

 

[Gugny]

7 hours ago, VW82 said:

McBeane know their fate is likely tied to Allen's success so they'll do whatever they can ensure he does well.

 

And this is different than any other GM/HC in the NFL, how?

[njbuff]

What a nonsensical thread this is.

[Don Otreply]

The mud elephant 

wading through the sea

leaves no tracks

 

Go Bills!!!

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

On 8/10/2019 at 1:03 AM, Element115 said:

Finally a post that makes sense, I didn't understand all the other spam posts.

 

I agree about McDermott and his lack of talent evaluation skills. Passing on Mahomes and drafting a "tools" QB could prove to be yet another huge Bills blunder. This is why I think Mahomes and Allen will always be linked to many Bills fans in terms of their career paths.

 

 

It's far more likely he is forever compared to QB's taken in his 2018 draft class.

 

At any rate I think Allen is going to be a franchise QB for us so it's a moot point.

 

[Rocket94]

12 hours ago, Gugny said:

 

And this is different than any other GM/HC in the NFL, how?

Well...there may be exceptions like Gruden!

[VW82]

12 hours ago, Gugny said:

 

And this is different than any other GM/HC in the NFL, how?

 

Because they drafted Josh and so are more likely to give him a longer leash. That fact seemed to have been lost on OP who wondered if McD might bench Josh to save his job. 

[Fan in San Diego]

I thought Josh's second series looked better than the first. Would have loved to see him in one more series before Barkley came in.

[Gugny]

16 minutes ago, VW82 said:

 

Because they drafted Josh and so are more likely to give him a longer leash. That fact seemed to have been lost on OP who wondered if McD might bench Josh to save his job. 

 

And I ask again .... how is this different than any other GM/HC in the league after choosing "their guy," at QB?

 

And there's a hell of a lot more lost on the OP than this.

[DaBillsFanSince1973]

JA being benched to save McD's job?

 

 

no, I couldn't of read that right? oh I know, some here might feel this is McD's last season of opportunity and that he and Beane have not done much of anything yet to show they deserve more then 3 years.

 

I believe that there is a better chance they succeed, then fail? that's just me though, a former heavily pessimistic fan that could of never been convinced the team had any chance to succeed and rightfully so through those 20 years of mediocrity. this regime has turned my outlook around and I don't believe other then back in the late '80's have I felt more optimistic about the team going forward.

 

I hope those on the other side of the fence wont be too upset and fall off the edge when the buffalo bills are contenders again.

 

 

Edited August 11, 2019 by DaBillsFanSince1973