Pine Barrens Mafia Posted August 9, 2019 Posted August 9, 2019 14 minutes ago, MDH said: People are going way overboard on the Zay hate. So the guy dropped a pass because he heard footsteps. It happens. It’s funny how people will excuse Allen’s bad throws as “it happens” but expect the WRs to be perfect. All that hate comes from wanting Allen to look better stat wise. Who gives a crap about pre season stats? Also, theres a reason that Allen keeps looking Zay’s way - he gets open, a lot. If Allen was more accurate and Zay had better hands he’d put up big numbers. But neither of those things seem to be on the immediate horizon. Zay runs solid routes, has good body control and has a knack for finding an open spot in the D. Just accept that he’s a flawed receiver otherwise but still has value. The good news is that this year Zay is #3 instead of #1. If you're a professional wide receiver and the ball hits you in the hands, you have to catch it. Otherwise, what's the point?
Stank_Nasty Posted August 9, 2019 Posted August 9, 2019 13 minutes ago, Gugny said: I really think the criticism that Zay Jones is facing today is more due to his history of inconsistency and bad hands, more than it has to do with Allen's stats. I like Zay Jones. I think he's better than what he's shown since he's been here. But the fact remains that he has dropped a lot of passes and, unfortunately, seems to have picked up where he left off. I think he'll be fine; but I don't think anyone can ever count on any semblance of consistency from the kid. I have no clue how you can put those 2 statements together. lol.... and i'm not trying to be a jerk but how may easy passes does he have to drop before he's not better than what he's shown...… coming into year 3 now.
Lurker Posted August 9, 2019 Posted August 9, 2019 17 minutes ago, MDH said: The good news is that this year Zay is #3 instead of #1. Good perspective to take.
Gugny Posted August 9, 2019 Posted August 9, 2019 5 minutes ago, Stank_Nasty said: I have no clue how you can put those 2 statements together. lol.... and i'm not trying to be a jerk but how may easy passes does he have to drop before he's not better than what he's shown...… coming into year 3 now. I just think the expectations need to be realistic. He's never going to catch 100% of his targets; but he'll get big gains on some of the ones he does catch. The good thing is that he's clearly not a #1 in anyone's eyes. If he can be a good #3, I'm okay with that, just as long as his mistakes/drops don't outweigh his positive contributions. I know it's year three, but it's year one of having a full season with a decent QB throwing him passes.
MDH Posted August 9, 2019 Posted August 9, 2019 12 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said: If you're a professional wide receiver and the ball hits you in the hands, you have to catch it. Otherwise, what's the point? I hear you but he doesn’t drop many where it’s that cut and dry. He drops contested balls or when it’s a “bang bang” play or a Safety is about to lay the wood on him. I also think some of the drops last season (by the team, not just Zay) is because they’re just not used to how quickly the ball gets on them when Allen throws it. They’re likely not used to how hard it hits their hands either. I’d expect a lower drop rate from the WRs who were on the team last year, and perhaps a higher drop rate than normal from Brown and Beasley as they’re not used to it yet.
Stank_Nasty Posted August 9, 2019 Posted August 9, 2019 4 minutes ago, Gugny said: I just think the expectations need to be realistic. He's never going to catch 100% of his targets; but he'll get big gains on some of the ones he does catch. The good thing is that he's clearly not a #1 in anyone's eyes. If he can be a good #3, I'm okay with that, just as long as his mistakes/drops don't outweigh his positive contributions. I know it's year three, but it's year one of having a full season with a decent QB throwing him passes. all fair... here's my thing though. its the types of passes he drops. just inexcusable. there are plenty of 3's not screwing the pooch like that.
Kelly the Dog Posted August 9, 2019 Posted August 9, 2019 2 minutes ago, MDH said: I hear you but he doesn’t drop many where it’s that cut and dry. He drops contested balls or when it’s a “bang bang” play or a Safety is about to lay the wood on him. I also think some of the drops last season (by the team, not just Zay) is because they’re just not used to how quickly the ball gets on them when Allen throws it. They’re likely not used to how hard it hits their hands either. I’d expect a lower drop rate from the WRs who were on the team last year, and perhaps a higher drop rate than normal from Brown and Beasley as they’re not used to it yet. He often bobbles easy ones he does catch. He often goes to the ground before he has to to make sure he catches it, therefore eliminating any chance for YAC and does this just short of first down marker.
WideNine Posted August 9, 2019 Posted August 9, 2019 17 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said: If you're a professional wide receiver and the ball hits you in the hands, you have to catch it. Otherwise, what's the point? This was my contention last year when everyone was yapping about Allen's ball placement and KB drops. OBD finally jettisoned KB and he was picked up by KC where he picked up where he left off - dropping catchable passes from miracle Mahomes. Good receivers make good quarterbacks look even better, bad receivers drop catchable balls. OBD has to get better about cutting ties with their own hand-picked players instead of working so hard to turn a miss into something else. Especially if it becomes clear that there may be better options fighting for a roster spot. Zay does a good job in practice, but is inconsistent with drive-killing drops in live games.... we are going on year 3 and it seems like a theme. He is streaky, when we are looking for reliable. 1
MDH Posted August 9, 2019 Posted August 9, 2019 9 minutes ago, Kelly the Dog said: He often bobbles easy ones he does catch. He often goes to the ground before he has to to make sure he catches it, therefore eliminating any chance for YAC and does this just short of first down marker. Yep, he absolutely does those things. Im not absolving Jones, he’s a flawed product. Personally, I’d rather have a guy who gets open consistently and drops a couple than a guy who struggles to get open with great hands. I’m guessing that’s where the coaching staff is at this point too. Once the Bills have better options in the WR room Zay will be gone if he hasn’t improved. 1
Gugny Posted August 9, 2019 Posted August 9, 2019 15 minutes ago, Stank_Nasty said: all fair... here's my thing though. its the types of passes he drops. just inexcusable. there are plenty of 3's not screwing the pooch like that. Okay, now you're just being a jerk. Just kidding. There is no doubt that you're right. In the hands. Between the numbers. Inexcusable and inexplicable drops. I don't know what it is about the guy ... I just think he can be better. I don't know if I feel like he's an underdog and that's why I'm pulling for him. I just like him and hope he stops dropping ***** passes. 1 1
VW82 Posted August 9, 2019 Posted August 9, 2019 52 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said: If you're a professional wide receiver and the ball hits you in the hands, you have to catch it. Otherwise, what's the point? If you're a professional quarterback and your receiver gets open you have to be accurate with the football. Otherwise, what's the point? I think Allen and Jones are young players with a lot of promise who have some glaring weaknesses. Hopefully they can overcome their shortcomings and become good players.
Rocket94 Posted August 9, 2019 Posted August 9, 2019 (edited) 29 minutes ago, WideNine said: This was my contention last year when everyone was yapping about Allen's ball placement and KB drops. OBD finally jettisoned KB and he was picked up by KC where he picked up where he left off - dropping catchable passes from miracle Mahomes. Good receivers make good quarterbacks look even better, bad receivers drop catchable balls. OBD has to get better about cutting ties with their own hand-picked players instead of working so hard to turn a miss into something else. Especially if it becomes clear that there may be better options fighting for a roster spot. Zay does a good job in practice, but is inconsistent with drive-killing drops in live games.... we are going on year 3 and it seems like a theme. He is streaky, when we are looking for reliable. The Bills are surely going to address the problem in the 2020 draft...if not sooner. You can only hide for so long. Edited August 9, 2019 by Rocket94
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted August 9, 2019 Posted August 9, 2019 4 minutes ago, VW82 said: If you're a professional quarterback and your receiver gets open you have to be accurate with the football. Otherwise, what's the point? I think Allen and Jones are young players with a lot of promise who have some glaring weaknesses. Hopefully they can overcome their shortcomings and become good players. That pass was perfect. You'll see when you actually, you know, WATCH THE GAME. 1
VW82 Posted August 9, 2019 Posted August 9, 2019 (edited) 32 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said: That pass was perfect. You'll see when you actually, you know, WATCH THE GAME. I wasn't referring to the pass or the drop, but rather their careers to date. It sounds like I'm going to see a game where Zay dropped a ball and Allen missed a couple of receivers who were open (just going by what others have written). These are exactly the two areas of weakness most discussed. I think it's fair to lump them in the same boat at this stage as promising young players with some areas that need to be cleaned up. It's less fair to single one out in order to praise the other. They both have issues. Edited August 9, 2019 by VW82
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted August 9, 2019 Posted August 9, 2019 1 hour ago, buffaloboyinATL said: And when a pass rusher got in completely untouched, he quickly protected himself and the ball rather than try and do too much and risk injury or turn over. ...good call bud....despite it being pre-season, it's a step in the right direction versus last year IMO........ 1
Beast Posted August 9, 2019 Posted August 9, 2019 The message was sent to Yeldon. Honestly, that was a great strip by the defender. The psychology of sitting Yeldon wasn’t just a message to him, it was a message to all on the team. I’m glad McDermott did that. 1
transplantbillsfan Posted August 9, 2019 Posted August 9, 2019 Good stuff. I disagree on your Singletary assessment, though. His numbers weren't great, but I thought it was pretty clear the kid has fantastic vision (I think Tasker mentioned Beane, in scouting him in college, said he had "elite vision") that resulted in extra yards where none should have come. Yeah, when you look at our RBs, it's Wade's numbers that pop out after game 1, but Singletary was the RB who impressed me most. Side note about Wade. There was nothing great in his TD run, though he showed he has speed, but I want to watch Wade get more carries in the upcoming preseason games to see how he runs in traffic. Agree about McKenzie. I think Ray Ray is the odd man out.
Doc Posted August 9, 2019 Posted August 9, 2019 Just now, transplantbillsfan said: Good stuff. I disagree on your Singletary assessment, though. His numbers weren't great, but I thought it was pretty clear the kid has fantastic vision (I think Tasker mentioned Beane, in scouting him in college, said he had "elite vision") that resulted in extra yards where none should have come. Yeah, when you look at our RBs, it's Wade's numbers that pop out after game 1, but Singletary was the RB who impressed me most. Side note about Wade. There was nothing great in his TD run, though he showed he has speed, but I want to watch Wade get more carries in the upcoming preseason games to see how he runs in traffic. Agree about McKenzie. I think Ray Ray is the odd man out. If he ran it the way it was called, it was a great show of speed. If it wasn't called that way, it possibly showed great vision. He'll need to get more touches to confirm. 1
Kelly the Dog Posted August 9, 2019 Posted August 9, 2019 5 minutes ago, Doc said: If he ran it the way it was called, it was a great show of speed. If it wasn't called that way, it possibly showed great vision. He'll need to get more touches to confirm. It was actually better than that. He is just learning the game, but at some point the coaches told him to read the defense pre-snap and if a play is called to one side and they seem to be overplaying it you may want to cut it back to the opposite side of the call. He read it that way and said after the game that he knew he was going to take it right before the snap. He did, made a guy miss and then showed the speed. Pretty good for your first carry. 2
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