Pine Barrens Mafia Posted April 5, 2005 Share Posted April 5, 2005 You beat me to it Campy. I always have to explain that "catholic" word to my Baptist friends down here. I'm one of the "frozen chosen" as well. I think our services are more RC than the RCs are nowdays. And horror of horrors - I went to an Episc Cathedral in NYC that had "images" and a candle alter. 296078[/snapback] Let's be frank, here. Not a whole hell of a lot changed when the English church split from Rome. Henry VIII wanted a divorce. Much of the doctrine and ritual of Catholicism continue to this day in Anglican (and by extension, Episcopalian) churches. Same with Lutherans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beausox Posted April 5, 2005 Author Share Posted April 5, 2005 "Protestantism" is a word, and the religions that it generally encompasses have a myriad of belief systems, each of which is unique. Only a pre-Copernican thinker like you would think that those religions all define themselves as revolving around Catholicism. That may have been true in the time of Martin Luther, but has since ceased to be the case. Presbytarians, Baptists, Lutherans, Quakers, Methodists, etc. don't give a flying crap about the Catholic church. 295953[/snapback] copernicus was a monk/mathemetician whose findings were accepted by Catholicism- viz: the Gregorian calendar- long before Protestant England who rejected it until 1752 (see Calendar riots 1752). In fact neither Christian strain deals well with change. As far as Protastants not giving a crap about Catholicism; nothing could be further from the truth. They are consumed by the RCC. Presbyterians do not differ with Methodists or Lutherans with Baptists anymore except that they agree that they are not RC. That is precisely my point: Protestantism protests Catholicism rather than promoting itself. Furthermore the depressing fact facing Protestantism is that few are concerned or interested in matters religious except that which involveswhat the RCC believes or does not believe! Quick what is the Methodist view of abortion? Or is it that Methodists do not have a view on abortion and what is more telling would anyone care? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Campy Posted April 5, 2005 Share Posted April 5, 2005 Let's be frank, here. Not a whole hell of a lot changed when the English church split from Rome. Henry VIII wanted a divorce. Much of the doctrine and ritual of Catholicism continue to this day in Anglican (and by extension, Episcopalian) churches. Same with Lutherans. 296088[/snapback] True, but rarely - if ever - acknowledged by "good" RCs. At my (Episc.) wedding, one of the guests was a dyed-in-the-wool RC. She was blown away that the service was EXACTLY like an RC wedding. Unless one exposes himself to the other, he has no idea how similar they really are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beausox Posted April 5, 2005 Author Share Posted April 5, 2005 Let's be frank, here. Not a whole hell of a lot changed when the English church split from Rome. Henry VIII wanted a divorce. Much of the doctrine and ritual of Catholicism continue to this day in Anglican (and by extension, Episcopalian) churches. Same with Lutherans. 296088[/snapback] True. Anglicans enjoy all the pomp without having to endure inspection. How would an Anglican with an ounce of critical analysis criticize the RCC for monarchical structure? Lutherans and Anglicans considered themselves true successors of RCC. But being Cathlic light is insufficient Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Campy Posted April 5, 2005 Share Posted April 5, 2005 As far as Protastants not giving a crap about Catholicism; nothing could be further from the truth. They are consumed by the RCC. Not being a protestant, how can you say that? Being a protestant, I can say that we really don't care. Really.Presbyterians do not differ with Methodists or Lutherans with Baptists anymore except that they agree that they are not RC. 296099[/snapback] Again, you are basing this on what? Something you learned in a confirmation class? There are differences between the different denominations - hence the reason for their existence. Your religious-centric perspective just keeps you from seeing it - you only see that they aren't RC, therefore, to you that's the only thing are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Adams Posted April 5, 2005 Share Posted April 5, 2005 copernicus was a monk/mathemetician whose findings were accepted by Catholicism- viz: the Gregorian calendar- long before Protestant England who rejected it until 1752 (see Calendar riots 1752). In fact neither Christian strain deals well with change. As far as Protastants not giving a crap about Catholicism; nothing could be further from the truth. They are consumed by the RCC. Presbyterians do not differ with Methodists or Lutherans with Baptists anymore except that they agree that they are not RC. That is precisely my point: Protestantism protests Catholicism rather than promoting itself. Furthermore the depressing fact facing Protestantism is that few are concerned or interested in matters religious except that which involveswhat the RCC believes or does not believe! Quick what is the Methodist view of abortion? Or is it that Methodists do not have a view on abortion and what is more telling would anyone care? 296099[/snapback] I think you've pretty much wrapped this argument up, with one footnote. My Copernican reference was to you, who believe that Christainity revolves around Catholicism. I see now that you are either as ignorant as you seem, or are in the vein of Hogboy and others. Either way, you're wasting my time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Campy Posted April 5, 2005 Share Posted April 5, 2005 But being Cathlic light is insufficient 296107[/snapback] And whatever happened to being Christian? Is that no longer sufficient by some papal edict? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted April 5, 2005 Share Posted April 5, 2005 True. Anglicans enjoy all the pomp without having to endure inspection. How would an Anglican with an ounce of critical analysis criticize the RCC for monarchical structure? Lutherans and Anglicans considered themselves true successors of RCC. But being Cathlic light is insufficient 296107[/snapback] OK, well beyond those TWO denominations, there are MANY protestant groups that are very very different from RC beliefs. My parents belong to an evangelical congregation. They believe that you don't confess to anyone but God. To me, this seems to be a far more "logical" interpretation of Christianity, one that Jesus himself would have recognized. The whole problem with RC beliefs is not in the basic doctrine...it's in the political structure and the theory of "ongoing revelation". This is why there are Protestant churches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
/dev/null Posted April 5, 2005 Share Posted April 5, 2005 Let's be frank, here. Not a whole hell of a lot changed when the English church split from Rome. Henry VIII wanted a divorce. Much of the doctrine and ritual of Catholicism continue to this day in Anglican (and by extension, Episcopalian) churches.296088[/snapback] My mother and her side of the family are Catholic. My father and his side of the family are Episcopal. My brother and I were raised Episcopal (I'm nonpracticing and he attends church regularly). So thru weddings, funerals, baptismals, and other family events I've seen alot of both faiths. The only real difference I've seen is that Episcopalians don't do Confession, however I've heard that in some places they do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aussiew Posted April 5, 2005 Share Posted April 5, 2005 The only real difference I've seen is that Episcopalians don't do Confession, They say a public, confessional prayer before they go to the alter to receive the sacraments. I too have heard of one-on-one confessions with the Episcopal priest, but it may be reserved for the really "bad" stuff? My priest (Episcopal) in Grand Island, NY would hear confessions on Saturdays if it was requested in advance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aussiew Posted April 5, 2005 Share Posted April 5, 2005 And whatever happened to being Christian? Is that no longer sufficient by some papal edict? Kind reminds me of my Baptist and Church of Christ friends down here who always harp on the fact that my infant Baptism doesn't "count". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Adams Posted April 5, 2005 Share Posted April 5, 2005 OK, well beyond those TWO denominations, there are MANY protestant groups that are very very different from RC beliefs. My parents belong to an evangelical congregation. They believe that you don't confess to anyone but God. To me, this seems to be a far more "logical" interpretation of Christianity, one that Jesus himself would have recognized. The whole problem with RC beliefs is not in the basic doctrine...it's in the political structure and the theory of "ongoing revelation". This is why there are Protestant churches. 296129[/snapback] Maybe another way to look at it is that the Catholic doctrines (of which there are too many to count) veered SO FAR away from the teachings of Jesus that the non-Catholic Christians needed to get back to things that matter, i.e., the teachings of Jesus. In so doing, they defined themselves more as followers of Jesus, rather than followers of Rome. Thus, maybe these people, who rejected the beuracracy of man-made Catholic Church doctrine, lay better claim to being the one true Church than the Catholic Church. Just a thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UConn James Posted April 5, 2005 Share Posted April 5, 2005 As far as Protastants not giving a crap about Catholicism; nothing could be further from the truth. They are consumed by the RCC. Presbyterians do not differ with Methodists or Lutherans with Baptists anymore except that they agree that they are not RC. That is precisely my point: Protestantism protests Catholicism rather than promoting itself. Furthermore the depressing fact facing Protestantism is that few are concerned or interested in matters religious except that which involveswhat the RCC believes or does not believe! Quick what is the Methodist view of abortion? Or is it that Methodists do not have a view on abortion and what is more telling would anyone care? 296099[/snapback] I actually agree with you on this point. I went to a congregational (I'm not sure what kind of protestantism it was, even, no one ever said) church until I was 18 that was filled w/ stiff upper lip New Englanders. The main line of beleief and teaching was "We are not Catholics. We are simple people who don't need marble and gold and prayer candles. Prayer and hymn singing are quite enough." Frequent quoting of the passage about it being easier for a rich man walking through the eye of a needle.... This even played out when the 18th c. church building burned down (boiler explosion). All of the walls were flat white, cheap red carpet, run-of-the-mill pews, etc. And it was never about This is what we believe, it was This is what we are not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted April 5, 2005 Share Posted April 5, 2005 Maybe another way to look at it is that the Catholic doctrines (of which there are too many to count) veered SO FAR away from the teachings of Jesus that the non-Catholic Christians needed to get back to things that matter, i.e., the teachings of Jesus. In so doing, they defined themselves more as followers of Jesus, rather than followers of Rome. Thus, maybe these people, who rejected the beuracracy of man-made Catholic Church doctrine, lay better claim to being the one true Church than the Catholic Church. Just a thought. 296229[/snapback] Those doctrines are linked to the central doctrine of "ongoing revelation". I once went to a Catholic wedding and had as hard a time following the service as did a Jewish friend who was also in attendance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nobody Posted April 5, 2005 Share Posted April 5, 2005 He doesn't wear pants. 295934[/snapback] Sure looks like he has pants on under the robes as they carry his body into St. Peters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nobody Posted April 5, 2005 Share Posted April 5, 2005 Kind reminds me of my Baptist and Church of Christ friends down here who always harp on the fact that my infant Baptism doesn't "count". 296203[/snapback] That's right - if you're not born again you are still going to hell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UConn James Posted April 5, 2005 Share Posted April 5, 2005 Those doctrines are linked to the central doctrine of "ongoing revelation". I once went to a Catholic wedding and had as hard a time following the service as did a Jewish friend who was also in attendance. 296240[/snapback] They like to link it back to the past tho. At my brother's wedding in a small Catholic church on the hottest day of the year, the priest ambled on and on about "the ancients." Meanwhile, it was well over 100 degrees inside with all of the body heat and we were all wearing black suits. To anyone who was overweight, it was nice b/c they must have lost 10 pounds in those three hours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockpile Posted April 5, 2005 Share Posted April 5, 2005 Unless one exposes himself to the other, he has no idea how similar they really are. 296100[/snapback] must...control...reflex ...response...to... this...statement..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VABills Posted April 5, 2005 Share Posted April 5, 2005 Sure looks like he has pants on under the robes as they carry his body into St. Peters. 296243[/snapback] Pervert. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beausox Posted April 5, 2005 Author Share Posted April 5, 2005 Truly. I guess he's never been to an Episcopal church. 296022[/snapback] I have but Catholic light is not my cup..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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