AFC or NFC QBs?

[Gugny]

2 hours ago, BobChalmers said:

 

OMG - seriously.  Eli is hot garbage - among the worst in the league right now.  Even when he was winning his two SB's he was hardly "great".

 

Cam may be poised for a good year, but yeah, he's only average lately.

 

But Eli had 66% completion percentage last year.  I read right here on TBD that a completion percentage above 60% makes any QB great.

[Kirby Jackson]

25 minutes ago, EmotionallyUnstable said:

 

Trying to iron it down into many specific categories gets even trickier. Are you going off of the QBs current abilities? Wentz is equal in skill to Dak? Mahomes had one, albeit FANTASTIC year, but is elite? 

 

I still think Goff, trubisky, Mahomes, etc are still as unknown as, say, Allen. You can project their career path based on a small sample size but the Law of Large Numners tells us it's not a great prOjextion. 

 

 

Regardless of your classifications, I'll still take the unproven AFC QBs than NFC

Mahomes had arguably the best year a QB has ever had. He’s elite. Wentz is more skilled than Dak but has health issue. Dak is a good game manager and wins. He’s the modern Alex Smith IMO.

 

Trubisky may still be considered an unknown but Goff and Mahomes have pretty defined resumes (regardless of how long they’ve played). Mahomes was deemed the MVP of the league. I don’t think that you can consider that unknown.

[Iron Maiden]

2 minutes ago, CommonCents said:

I think we would view him differently if he beat the Pats. He was part of that choke job and I will never see him the same way. 

That probably does enter people's mind when trying to label Ryan....however, despite that ( I put the blame mainly on their coaching staff ), I still think he's up there...that year, he won MVP and dominated the league....

[Kirby Jackson]

24 minutes ago, MJS said:

Back to the drawing board.

Luck isn't elite. Rivers is. Jimmy G is still unproven. Mayfield is still unproven (no winning seasons, no playoff appearances, not even a full season of starts under his belt).

I’m not a Luck guy but he’s been elite when he’s out there. Rivers is a guy that I’ve always liked a lot but at this point he’s just very good. He’s a HOFer though.

 

Jimmy G and Baker could easily fall into unproven. For me Baker looked so comfortable and is like 25 so I don’t see a lot of growth or regression. He was the same player in college. Jimmy G is more of a ? to me. He may be the guy on this list (besides maybe Josh) that could end up in the most different tiers. I could see Jimmy G as anywhere from elite to bad.

[CommonCents]

Just now, Iron Maiden said:

That probably does enter people's mind when trying to label Ryan....however, despite that ( I put the blame mainly on their coaching staff ), I still think he's up there...that year, he won MVP and dominated the league....

It was a great year and the choke wasn’t his fault. It’s just how I associate things when it comes to NE. Same thing with Pete Carroll, he was that quirky funny guy until he didn’t run the ball now he is a donkey. 

[3rdnlng]

1 hour ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

...ho disrespect, but never thought of him as a great QB....sure he has two rings....solid?...yes....great?...no......and now in the twilight....Peyton led the way and Eli was better than Archie IMO.....

We don't discriminate around here like that. Walk around the block a few times in their "F" me shoes and you'll gain a new respect for them.

[Alphadawg7]

It’s without question the AFC.  Look at the trophy cases for one, second they have the GOAT, third they have the reigning MVP who just put up a top 3 season of all time, and finally they have the best young QBs in the game.  

 

Bonus, they have a healthy Andrew Luck now with a real OL and actual weapons around him.  

 

I think the gap is not very close either.  

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

2 minutes ago, 3rdnlng said:

We don't discriminate around here like that. Walk around the block a few times in their "F" me shoes and you'll gain a new respect for them.

 

...as I have said, I do 15 laps around the gym daily and promise that I will actually park and go inside on September 1.....it is solemn.....

[3rdnlng]

3 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

...as I have said, I do 15 laps around the gym daily and promise that I will actually park and go inside on September 1.....it is solemn.....

Regardless that doesn't give you the right to invoke "ho disrespect".

Edited August 4, 2019 by 3rdnlng

[Alphadawg7]

20 minutes ago, Iron Maiden said:

Maybe a bit off topic....but why does Matt Ryan gets pooped upon consistently...I think the guy is close to elite....

 

 

He and the Falcons have too many times under achieved and come up short in big moments.  They have struggled to even consistently make the playoffs most of his career despite a potent offense and never getting hurt.  

 

Other top tier QBs have carried their team more than he has.  Rodgers, Peyton, etc have been saddled with bad defenses a lot and seem to accomplish more.  

 

To be Elite, I think you need to be a guy who can carry your team, he just hasn’t been that guy.  He’s a very good QB, but he’s a tier 2 guy at best for sure IMO

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

7 minutes ago, 3rdnlng said:

Regardless that doesn't give you the right to invoke "ho disrespect".

WTF?...I don't even respect MYSELF....Now what??

[3rdnlng]

Just now, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

WTF?...I don't even respect MYSELF....Now what??

You wrote ...ho disrespect...……………….

 

I know you meant to write ...no disrespect but I was just busting your balls. Take all the fun out of joke, geeez.

[TigerJ]

3 hours ago, Joe in Winslow said:

Eli's a great? Not any more. And I wouldn't include Cam as a great, either.

 

 

I had the same reaction to Eli.  He's had a nice career, with a couple Super Bowl wins, but if the question is "What have you done for me lately?" the answer is, "Not much."

[metzelaars_lives]

You might want to try looking at Matt Ryan's football reference page sometime.

[Kirby Jackson]

5 hours ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

....now boil it down to the recent incoming crop for comparatives to get a look at what to expect going forward...gives us a better long term comparative of AFC vs NFC.....

I like the trajectory of the young AFC QBs. Baker is going to be Matt Ryan(ish) imo. Darnold will be really good and Allen has a higher ceiling (and lower floor) than all of them. The young NFC QBs are tricky because they haven’t played. Murray and Haskins could be really good pros. Who knows on Jones. It’s tough to project the NFC guy’s at this point.

[Iron Maiden]

5 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

He and the Falcons have too many times under achieved and come up short in big moments.  They have struggled to even consistently make the playoffs most of his career despite a potent offense and never getting hurt.  

 

Other top tier QBs have carried their team more than he has.  Rodgers, Peyton, etc have been saddled with bad defenses a lot and seem to accomplish more.  

 

To be Elite, I think you need to be a guy who can carry your team, he just hasn’t been that guy.  He’s a very good QB, but he’s a tier 2 guy at best for sure IMO

You bring up some valid points...to me, Matt Ryan is a slightly less talented guy than Rodgers.......As another poster brought up earlier, he also chocked on the big stage...at least, Rodgers has 1.....Despite all that, I do think he's very close to  " Elite " status...I have to admit however that having Julio Jones for several years is a bonus .... 

[SoTier]

10 hours ago, EmotionallyUnstable said:

Which conference do you think has stronger QB play? Like many have said, the tides are changing. With that in mind, it is certainly interesting to look at the long term projection for AFC/NFC QBs. 

 

Note: For this process, I’m looking at a players career and situation as a whole, including past, present and future.

 

https://www.ourlads.com/nfldepthcharts/depthchartpos/QB

 

AFC-

 

Untouchables: Brady

 

The Greats: Ben, Luck, Rivers, 

 

It is what it is: Carr, Dalton, Flacco, Mariota, Foles

 

Up and Coming: Allen, Darnold, Mayfield, Mahomes, Rosen, Jackson, Watson

 

 Conference Summary: 4 upper echelon QBs, a hand full of veteran guys who stare mediocrity down the barrel, and 7 young guns, some of which have the potential to be greats. 

 

NFC-

 

Untouchables: Brees, Rogers

 

The Greats: Eli, Russell, Newton

 

It is what it is: Ryan, Stafford, Cousins, Winston, Prescott, Garoppolo

 

Up and coming: Wentz, Haskins, Trubisky, Murray, Goff

 

Conference Summary: 5 upper echelon QBs, 3 of which are on their way out the door. 6 that I could care less for. 5 up and coming, young players that the jury is still out on. 

 

 

Findings and Thoughts: 

 

The AFC has the brighter group of young, up and coming players IMO. Mahomes leads the wAy with his stellar breakout year. Allen, Darnold, Mayfield and Watson have all shown potential to be game changers and carry a team. Rosen and Jackson round out the class, carrying potential, but in a less than ideal situation for both. Though this group is collectively less experienced and developed than the NFC, I think they hold the torch. The NFC young guns, lead by MVP hopeful Wentz, has a pocket of more established players with some complete unknowns. Wentz, despite his MVP caliber play at times, cannot stay healthy. Goff and Trubisky have both taken huge strides in the right direction. How much of that improvement was schematic (McVay) or feeding off of a fantastic defense? The rookies I have little hope for. I think they’re positioned in sub-par situations (specifically, Haskins) and are in for a troubling couple of years. 

 

In 10 years from now, how many of those AFC or NFC guys will still be around, sitting on top of the "Untouchable" or "Great" categories? 

 

So what say you? Do you disagree with my assessments of current and projected careers? Do you feel similarly or differently to my view of the AFC QBs? 

 

Putting Mahomes, Watson, Wentz and Goff in the same tier with 2nd year QBs who were unimpressive as rookies and rookies who have done nothing in the NFL cuts your credibility to zilch.

[SoTier]

7 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

I just don’t agree with the list. 

 

The Legends:

AFC - Brady

NFC - Brees, Rodgers

 

Elite:

AFC - Mahomes, Luck

NFC - Wilson

 

Very Good:

AFC - Ben, Rivers, Baker, Watson

NFC - Ryan, Cousins, Cam, Stafford

 

Good:

AFC - Dalton, Carr, Foles

NFC - Wentz, Goff, Trubisky, Dak, Jimmy G

 

Bad:

AFC - Mariota, Flacco

NFC - Eli, Jameis

 

Unproven:

AFC - Allen, Darnold, Rosen, Jackson

NFC - Haskins, Murray 

 

Much better.  I think you left off Jones but he would obviously go into the unproven category.   I personally would put Garoppolo in the unproven category since that's what he is despite going into his sixth or seventh year as a pro.

Edited August 4, 2019 by SoTier

[Kirby Jackson]

46 minutes ago, SoTier said:

 

Much better.  I think you left off Jones but he would obviously go into the unproven category.   I personally would put Garoppolo in the unproven category since that's what he is despite going into his sixth or seventh year as a pro.

I used Eli instead. Tried to use one guy from each team.

[Zerovoltz]

 

6 hours ago, EmotionallyUnstable said:

 

Why is it so difficult to imagine regression from a quarterback? You think that level of play is sustainable? I'm not arguing with your assessment that he has a tremendous first year. But it still was a single season and that doesn't necessary grant you similar status to Tom Brady. He has lots to prove 

 

I know you all don't want to hear it...but while 50 TD and 5000 is a very very high bar to set and has never been maintained or repeated by the other 2 who did it...I'm here to tell you there isn't going to be a regression.

 

1.  Brady and Manning both achieve a 50 TD 5000 yard season LATE in their careers, when they had mastered their craft.

2.  You'll have to take my word for it, but I think my record here is pretty good with objective evaluation of things....and so...I'm here to tell you, the offense is going to throw even more than last year.  ....you've not heard it yet, but you'll get tired of hearing about "The Legion of Zoom" this year.