Mass shooting at El Paso Walmart/and also Dayton OH

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

5 minutes ago, Gugny said:

 

Well, minorities shooting minorities wouldn't imply racism, would it?  You're the one who went down this road.

 

What provides young white men to be radicalized into racist activities?

• Websites/communities like 8chan.
• Movements/"brotherhoods" like the Alt-Right, Neo-Nazis and the KKK.
• Mental illness.

 

And, before you go THERE, I will say that left-wing extremists become radicalized in the same exact ways, for the same exact reasons.

 

It sure as hell is NOT ***** Twitter or CNN.  That's just ***** dumb.

 

OOOOOOOR it could be being repeatedly told in academia, through the media and through social media that they're worthless, that people like them are at the root of all that's evil in modern society or even worse that they're RACIST just for being who they are.

 

At that point, what's the point of them not ACTUALLY embracing the label that's already been attached to them?

 

[Gugny]

Just now, LeviF91 said:

 

You've been talking a lot about 8chan.  I assume it's a website you've reviewed on at least one occasion.  What about it made it a hub for "radicalization" of young white men?

 

8chan's just been in the news lately.  I didn't bring it up.  It disturbs me that anyone would be against shutting it down.

 

Your assumption is incorrect.  I don't know what made it, and others like it, what it is (hopefully was).  But I know what it is. 

Just now, Joe in Winslow said:

 

OOOOOOOR it could be being repeatedly told in academia, through the media and through social media that they're worthless, that people like them are at the root of all that's evil in modern society or even worse that they're RACIST just for being who they are.

 

At that point, what's the point of them not ACTUALLY embracing the label that's already been attached to them?

 

 

I am very, very confident that my answers are far more correct than your guesses.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

3 minutes ago, Gugny said:

I am very, very confident that my answers are far more correct than your guesses.

 

I knew my lack of hope was well founded. Oh well.

[Gugny]

6 minutes ago, Teddy KGB said:

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/beta.washingtonpost.com/nation/2019/07/14/armed-man-throwing-incendiary-devices-ice-detention-center-killed-officer-involved-shooting-police-say/%3foutputType=amp

 

Not sure what the point of this link is.  Stop letting other people talk for you.  What's your point with sharing another story about a white supremacist trying to kill a bunch of minorities?

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

2 minutes ago, Gugny said:

 

Not sure what the point of this link is.  Stop letting other people talk for you.  What's your point with sharing another story about a white supremacist trying to kill a bunch of minorities?

 

That guy wasn't trying to kill minorities. He was trying to kill ICE agents. Wonder why.

 

[Teddy KGB]

3 minutes ago, Gugny said:

 

 Stop letting other people talk for you

 

Irony. ^^ 

 

Enjoy your stories 

[Deranged Rhino]

1 hour ago, Gugny said:

 

8chan isn't for information sharing.  It's for hatred sharing.

 

This isn't a discussion about news outlets/media - neither of which is 8chan.

 

There is nothing good to come from people full of hatred getting together to fuel more hatred.  CNN is crap, I'll agree .... but it doesn't spread hate.  There are less-biased sources of information out there where one can actually read factual information.

 

That's not what 8chan is, nor does it even pretend to be.

 

 

I love you, Gungy, I do. So all of this is said with nothing but respect.

 

First, a point of agreement -- 8chan is a cesspool by design but it was not created for hatred sharing. There are terrible people who post terrible things there, without question. But they are by far the minority (and most of the worst offenders are not even human but instead are bots). There's a culture of ***** posting (which is trolling on steroids), which can get very obscene -- but even that isn't about hate but instead (mainly) it's about T&A. Most of the vile crap posted there are posted by people/bots trying to drive people away from the site, not to keep them there or to spread hate.

 

The latest shooter, as an example, did not originally upload his manifesto to 8chan as has been reported -- nor did the Christchurch shooter (8chan was the second site to host the material in both cases, Twitter, Facebook and Instagram were the primary sites). And just this past June we learned for a fact that the FBI (and likely other alphabet agencies) post on 8chan in an attempt to incite violence or racist screed (source: https://www.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.casd.626722/gov.uscourts.casd.626722.1.0.pdf / https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20201868 )

 

Yet 8chan is the one that's targeted -- not the primary offenders in Twitter, Facebook, or Instagram. Why? Could it be that Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram are already under "control" (owned and operated by US intelligence assets turned private corporations)? Sounds nuts, I know but really walk it out.

 

Really think about the two facts mentioned above: Contrary to media reports the shooter didn't post on 8chan, and the FBI was caught inciting violent/racist/vile rhetoric on 8chan in an attempt to incite people to violence. I don't know about you, but taking those two pieces of information into consideration force me to wonder why the US Gov't and their media wing are so focused on making a site dedicated to trolling as the source of all evil on the internet. 

 

There's an an answer to this question. Two in fact. 

 

The first answer is that 8chan is a free speech board. Hence the screed that gets put there. The culture, right or wrong, on the chans is that if you're offended by language then you're not a defender of free speech. Thus a lot of the worst crap that's posted there is done (right or wrong) in the name of free speech. That drives the government suits NUTS because they can't control or manipulate the narrative on the chans the way they can other social media/internet sites (like Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram). So, if they can't control it, they must make it toxic in the eyes of public opinion. Make it a the CAUSE of violence and racism, thus increasing the public push to destroy it.  

 

The second answer is that on 8chan for the past three years there have been reams of real evidence, information sharing, and organization by legit truth seekers who pose a serious threat to the establishment and their control systems. These aren't people pushing hate or dark ideologies. These are very good researchers and diggers who are SO good at what they do they formed a collective hive mind type research center -- and in the process uncovered a coup in real time and helped expose it to the world at large. 

 

That's the true target -- not the white supremacists who post on the chans (who are likely bots, provocateurs, or US agents), but the real people who have been sharing and digging for information on corruption within the federal governments of multiple nations.

 

The attacks on 8chan are entirely about controlling information, not stopping hate. And certainly not about stopping mass shootings.

[LeviF]

22 minutes ago, Gugny said:

 

8chan's just been in the news lately.  I didn't bring it up.  It disturbs me that anyone would be against shutting it down.

 

Your assumption is incorrect.  I don't know what made it, and others like it, what it is (hopefully was).  But I know what it is. 

 

 

I also know what it is/was.  An imageboard in the "chan" format.  Why does it need to be shut down and how does it differ fundamentally from 4chan, 420chan, 1chan, 2chan, etc.?  Why deplatform people using 8chan and not other imageboards, or text-based forums, or social media giants?  ***** people congregate in all sorts of places and moderation, by design, is reactive and not proactive.

 

And, if we "shut down" ***** people in an attempt to silence them, what do you think the reaction will be?  They're certainly not going to just stop their wrongthink. Once someone feels isolated, demonized, without a voice, and without representation in larger society, what's the next step?

 

I would suggest that the answer to the question "what makes someone think that shooting a bunch of people and almost inevitably dying attempting it is a reasonable alternative to living out the rest of their days normally?" lies somewhere in there.

[Gugny]

4 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said:

 

I love you, Gungy, I do. So all of this is said with nothing but respect.

 

First, a point of agreement -- 8chan is a cesspool by design but it was not created for hatred sharing. There are terrible people who post terrible things there, without question. But they are by far the minority (and most of the worst offenders are not even human but instead are bots). There's a culture of ***** posting (which is trolling on steroids), which can get very obscene -- but even that isn't about hate but instead (mainly) it's about T&A. Most of the vile crap posted there are posted by people/bots trying to drive people away from the site, not to keep them there or to spread hate.

 

The latest shooter, as an example, did not originally upload his manifesto to 8chan as has been reported -- nor did the Christchurch shooter (8chan was the second site to host the material in both cases, Twitter, Facebook and Instagram were the primary sites). And just this past June we learned for a fact that the FBI (and likely other alphabet agencies) post on 8chan in an attempt to incite violence or racist screed (source: https://www.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.casd.626722/gov.uscourts.casd.626722.1.0.pdf / https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20201868 )

 

Yet 8chan is the one that's targeted -- not the primary offenders in Twitter, Facebook, or Instagram. Why? Could it be that Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram are already under "control" (owned and operated by US intelligence assets turned private corporations)? Sounds nuts, I know but really walk it out.

 

Really think about the two facts mentioned above: Contrary to media reports the shooter didn't post on 8chan, and the FBI was caught inciting violent/racist/vile rhetoric on 8chan in an attempt to incite people to violence. I don't know about you, but taking those two pieces of information into consideration force me to wonder why the US Gov't and their media wing are so focused on making a site dedicated to trolling as the source of all evil on the internet. 

 

There's an an answer to this question. Two in fact. 

 

The first answer is that 8chan is a free speech board. Hence the screed that gets put there. The culture, right or wrong, on the chans is that if you're offended by language then you're not a defender of free speech. Thus a lot of the worst crap that's posted there is done (right or wrong) in the name of free speech. That drives the government suits NUTS because they can't control or manipulate the narrative on the chans the way they can other social media/internet sites (like Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram). So, if they can't control it, they must make it toxic in the eyes of public opinion. Make it a the CAUSE of violence and racism, thus increasing the public push to destroy it.  

 

The second answer is that on 8chan for the past three years there have been reams of real evidence, information sharing, and organization by legit truth seekers who pose a serious threat to the establishment and their control systems. These aren't people pushing hate or dark ideologies. These are very good researchers and diggers who are SO good at what they do they formed a collective hive mind type research center -- and in the process uncovered a coup in real time and helped expose it to the world at large. 

 

That's the true target -- not the white supremacists who post on the chans (who are likely bots, provocateurs, or US agents), but the real people who have been sharing and digging for information on corruption within the federal governments of multiple nations.

 

The attacks on 8chan are entirely about controlling information, not stopping hate. And certainly not about stopping mass shootings.

 

I'm not going to doubt that what you say is true.  I honestly do not know.

 

My thoughts are that those 8chan users who are NOT there to share/spread hatred should start something else and keep the other crap out.

 

I wasn't blaming 8chan for the El Paso shooting.  Simply stating that sites like that (and if there are Facebook "groups"), and any/all social media should be monitored, looking for potential threats.

 

And action needs to be taken.  If someone makes threats on social media, they shouldn't be allowed to own a firearm of any kind.  They should be put on a list of people to watch and never come off of it.

[Deranged Rhino]

Just now, Gugny said:

I wasn't blaming 8chan for the El Paso shooting. 

 

No worries at all. I did not think you were, or intend to frame my response in that way  I was just offering more information about the topic because most of what's out there on it is false, misleading, or sensationalized. 

 

2 minutes ago, Gugny said:

My thoughts are that those 8chan users who are NOT there to share/spread hatred should start something else and keep the other crap out.

 

That's the trick though. The legit researchers on that site aren't inviting the crazies to post there -- yet they come anyway. They come specifically because of the work being done there and their goal is to diminish its impact. How it works is real easy, we have seen it in this very thread: 

 

You admit you have never been to 8chan (and I don't blame you -- this isn't about trying to prop up 8chan), yet you know through the media that there are terrible things posted there (and there are). That's enough to keep you, a good person, away from the chans. It's also enough for you, a good person, to rightfully dismiss any information that may come from 8chan as well -- even if it's not tainted by the other racist screed. It's guilt by association -- that's how it works. 

 

Hence, regardless of where the research/information sharing is being done, bad actors are going to come into their boards and use the first amendment against them to muddy the waters by making it toxic with their nonsense. 

 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

9 minutes ago, LeviF91 said:

 

I also know what it is/was.  An imageboard in the "chan" format.  Why does it need to be shut down and how does it differ fundamentally from 4chan, 420chan, 1chan, 2chan, etc.?  Why deplatform people using 8chan and not other imageboards, or text-based forums, or social media giants?  ***** people congregate in all sorts of places and moderation, by design, is reactive and not proactive.

 

And, if we "shut down" ***** people in an attempt to silence them, what do you think the reaction will be?  They're certainly not going to just stop their wrongthink. Once someone feels isolated, demonized, without a voice, and without representation in larger society, what's the next step?

 

I would suggest that the answer to the question "what makes someone think that shooting a bunch of people and almost inevitably dying attempting it is a reasonable alternative to living out the rest of their days normally?" lies somewhere in there.

 

Nobody likes to talk about why Donald Trump REALLY won the last election. One need only look back to the "deplorables" comment. It's indicative of a larger attitude toward whites, especially working-class whites among the "intelligentsia" in this country. And its from those ranks where a lot of these people come from.

 

 

[Gugny]

1 minute ago, Deranged Rhino said:

 

No worries at all. I did not think you were, or intend to frame my response in that way  I was just offering more information about the topic because most of what's out there on it is false, misleading, or sensationalized. 

 

 

That's the trick though. The legit researchers on that site aren't inviting the crazies to post there -- yet they come anyway. They come specifically because of the work being done there and their goal is to diminish its impact. How it works is real easy, we have seen it in this very thread: 

 

You admit you have never been to 8chan (and I don't blame you -- this isn't about trying to prop up 8chan), yet you know through the media that there are terrible things posted there (and there are). That's enough to keep you, a good person, away from the chans. It's also enough for you, a good person, to rightfully dismiss any information that may come from 8chan as well -- even if it's not tainted by the other racist screed. It's guilt by association -- that's how it works. 

 

Hence, regardless of where the research/information sharing is being done, bad actors are going to come into their boards and use the first amendment against them to muddy the waters by making it toxic with their nonsense. 

 

 

Weeding hatred out of an online community that was created for something OTHER than hatred doesn't seem that difficult to me.

[Deranged Rhino]

Just now, Gugny said:

 

Weeding hatred out of an online community that was created for something OTHER than hatred doesn't seem that difficult to me.

 

I hear you, I do. It just becomes more difficult if you're a free speech board. Which is why 99.99% of forums and boards are not free speech boards. The ToS give the moderators tools to get rid of the bad actors. But on a free speech board you can't remove anyone unless they actually break the law or post something illegal (like a threat). 

[Deranged Rhino]

(but, on topic)

 

[Gugny]

9 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said:

 

I hear you, I do. It just becomes more difficult if you're a free speech board. Which is why 99.99% of forums and boards are not free speech boards. The ToS give the moderators tools to get rid of the bad actors. But on a free speech board you can't remove anyone unless they actually break the law or post something illegal (like a threat). 

 

Well, then people running free speech boards don't understand the real reason we have free speech.  And they're idiots.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

1 hour ago, Gugny said:

 

Not sure what the point of this link is.  Stop letting other people talk for you.  What's your point with sharing another story about a white supremacist trying to kill a bunch of minorities?

Again... me thinks you ask too much.  

 

LOL

14 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said:

(but, on topic)

 

 

And Donald Trump will be out golfing         

 

I kid, I kid 

 

 

Step 1.  Ban Donald Trump form Twitter and FB.  

I kid, I kid 

[muppy]

20 hours ago, Joe in Winslow said:

 

Because the sad fact is, there IS a slippery slope, and once you allow one inch of regulation, the people who want TOTAL gun control will push for a total ban.

 

It's not even debatable.

 

I think what you posted here is certainly debatable. Even if a Very few wackjobs advocate for no guns (total ban)  in the private sector  the numbers of those folks have to be so low that to even give that notion serious consideration and credibility reflects how distorted this gun control rhetoric gets...to me its overblown fear rhetoric meant to enflame gun owners and does not speak to the majority of American citizens opinions..at all. Its ridiculous this whole slippery slope argument that is SO pervasive that the reality of the need for SOME solution in view of the way things are handled now means "they're coming for all our guns"  Ridiculous.

[Boca BIlls]

On 8/5/2019 at 11:55 AM, RaoulDuke79 said:

As far as I'm concerned there should have been no bond set and he should have been detained until a full medical evaluation could be performed. If found mentally competent he should be jailed, if not he should be detained in some type of mental asylum. 

That is what happened the second he made bail he gets shipped to the mental facility. The jail still wants its money. Booking and Jail, Make Bail and you get shipped to to the mental facility. That way everyone gets paid.

Edited August 7, 2019 by Boca BIlls

[unbillievable]

15 minutes ago, muppy said:

I think what you posted here is certainly debatable. Even if a Very few wackjobs advocate for no guns (total ban)  in the private sector  the numbers of those folks have to be so low that to even give that notion serious consideration and credibility reflects how distorted this gun control rhetoric gets...to me its overblown fear rhetoric meant to enflame gun owners and does not speak to the majority of American citizens opinions..at all. Its ridiculous this whole slippery slope argument that is SO pervasive that the reality of the need for SOME solution in view of the way things are handled now means "they're coming for all our guns"  Ridiculous.

 

You're delusional if you believe that their aren't millions in the total ban camp in the US. There are continents of people living in total ban countries and many here want to emulate them.

 

I would put the number around the same as those who want Universal Healthcare.

 

 

[Patrick Duffy]

Not sure if this has been mentioned yet but the Dayton shooter also killed his own sister outside of a bar.

 

https://www.yahoo.com/news/dayton-shooter-connor-betts-killed-143153649.html

Edited August 7, 2019 by Patrick_Duffy