Cover 1 Denied Press Credentials by Bills PR Staff

[Buffalo716]

5 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

And?

I'm just trying to get to the bottom of what an internet blogger is, and why it discredits someone from being a real journalist in 2019. It's an extremely outdated term that suggests he's just some guy on reddit with a hot take. Newspapers have been dead for 10 years, and any serious journalist treats online content as their first source these days. If you want to say he doesn't have enough market reach, or he isn't affiliated with a big enough brand - yea ok, that makes sense. But the whole "blogger" thing just makes me think that there's just a bunch of old guys sitting around here waiting for this internet fad thing to end.

That is a good take and I will agree

 

His 17 thousand follower base may not be a big enough base

[Phil The Thrill]

2 hours ago, RichRiderBills said:

 

He's been a coach . Im not sure the point. He is a pro...he gets paid. 

 

He’s been a coach?!?!?  That’s right, he’s coached high school football ???????????????????

1 hour ago, RichRiderBills said:

He's associated with The Athletic....do you guys talk just to hear your own voice?

 

 

 

Then why didn’t The Athletic get him credentialed?

 

 

[GunnerBill]

1 hour ago, BullBuchanan said:

And?

I'm just trying to get to the bottom of what an internet blogger is, and why it discredits someone from being a real journalist in 2019. It's an extremely outdated term that suggests he's just some guy on reddit with a hot take. Newspapers have been dead for 10 years, and any serious journalist treats online content as their first source these days. If you want to say he doesn't have enough market reach, or he isn't affiliated with a big enough brand - yea ok, that makes sense. But the whole "blogger" thing just makes me think that there's just a bunch of old guys sitting around here waiting for this internet fad thing to end.

 

So I can't tell you how it works in the US but as someone who covered Manchester City for 18 months as a freelancer, whenever I was applying for media passes (whether for games or press conferences or anything else) if I was doing it in a freelance capacity - ie. not sponsored by a specific station or newspaper - I was asked for my trade association membership number. So essentially if you are not there on behalf of a recognised media outlet then you have to prove you have certification with one of the trade associations. I honestly have no idea whether they ever checked before providing me with accreditation. 

[Rochesterfan]

1 hour ago, BullBuchanan said:

And?

I'm just trying to get to the bottom of what an internet blogger is, and why it discredits someone from being a real journalist in 2019. It's an extremely outdated term that suggests he's just some guy on reddit with a hot take. Newspapers have been dead for 10 years, and any serious journalist treats online content as their first source these days. If you want to say he doesn't have enough market reach, or he isn't affiliated with a big enough brand - yea ok, that makes sense. But the whole "blogger" thing just makes me think that there's just a bunch of old guys sitting around here waiting for this internet fad thing to end.

 

 

I do not need to say anything.  The NFL has defined it and the teams have their own additional rules.  See the Dallas media guidelines as an example.

 

 

[HardyBoy]

10 hours ago, Lurker said:

 

Pretty weak arguments, IMO.

 

"A company stating what they want does not make it the law"

 

     A subscriber checking the "I agree" box on the terms and conditions registration form makes it a binding legal agreement.   

 

Great point! I will go write up a contract for my imaginary drug dealer and hypothetical high price call girl saying that they agree to the terms of the contract, and I'll just show it to the judge and get off with no consequences...thanks for the tip!!!

[YoloinOhio]

5 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:

 

And I never said that... I said getting press credentials is not a Right.. he doesn't deserve them only  because cover1... If they think he should have them, give it to him... And they haven't

yea He's a professional writer and he's pretty good at his job... Regardless I wish him the best

 

That's my point it's not a Right for press credentials... If he gets them good for him

 

* Does Dean Kindig get credentials for his write ups?  I don't think he does

 

 

No

[HardyBoy]

Erik has done film reviews over Skype with both Poyer and Alexander, so yeah, there's that for everyone saying he's got nothing to offer and taking what in many cases seem like personal shots at someone. Frankly, I have disagreed with Erik many times on various topics, and we've had really good discussions about it every time, so maybe look in the mirror?

 

Erik and cover1 have put together a really cool, engaged and educated community of not just great fans, but also great people. Nobody gives you crap for wanting to talk about something that has already been talked about, and we talk about things not related to football all the time, especially during the offseason...it doesn't hurt the experience, it makes it better.

 

While some of you might have that sense of community here, it largely left for me when I had the north east eye wall of a category 5 hurricane projected literally to go over my house. My wife, 6 m/o at the time, and I were on vacation, and I flewback home myself, pulled an all nighter packing up my house by myself, and started driving with my wedding albums, 3 cats and a dog in a toyota corolla. I had to leave my ukulele up north, and last thing I told my wife before I went into the airport was to make sure he learned to play it, because deep down I wasn't positive I wouldn't get stranded without gas out on the road. 

 

Before I left I started a post here for other people in my position as both a source of information and a place for moral support. I then drove 8 hours that first day, only made it to Orlando (from ft lauderdale, should have been 3). The next day I drove 16 hours straight with literally three 15 minute breaks, with four pets in the car. On those breaks I tried to find the thread to get some motivation and inspiration, because this was literally the most terrifying time in my life, but they were pushed down the wall...I thought.

 

When I finally got to my destination, turns out the thread was moved off the wall...wasn't football related...no crap, but as someone who has been an active part of this board since 2008 I deserved better. That was one of the most hurtful things people who were supposed to be on my side have done to me. That might sound hyperbolic, but again, Irma was going to level my house, literally. If it hit as a cat 5 there was a really good chance I would not have a home to go back to, and I would be separated from my family for a really long time. 

 

How about instead of wishing ill will against someone who is doing something he is extremely passionate about, and doing it well, we focus on maybe making this place a little bit better, because the way that I was treated during that emergency was piss poor.

 

By the way, there were great tips in that thread that got pushed off the wall that would have saved me a couple hours of driving and a lot of moral support that would have really helped me mentally.

[Phil The Thrill]

38 minutes ago, HardyBoy said:

Erik has done film reviews over Skype with both Poyer and Alexander, so yeah, there's that for everyone saying he's got nothing to offer and taking what in many cases seem like personal shots at someone. Frankly, I have disagreed with Erik many times on various topics, and we've had really good discussions about it every time, so maybe look in the mirror?

 

Erik and cover1 have put together a really cool, engaged and educated community of not just great fans, but also great people. Nobody gives you crap for wanting to talk about something that has already been talked about, and we talk about things not related to football all the time, especially during the offseason...it doesn't hurt the experience, it makes it better.

 

While some of you might have that sense of community here, it largely left for me when I had the north east eye wall of a category 5 hurricane projected literally to go over my house. My wife, 6 m/o at the time, and I were on vacation, and I flewback home myself, pulled an all nighter packing up my house by myself, and started driving with my wedding albums, 3 cats and a dog in a toyota corolla. I had to leave my ukulele up north, and last thing I told my wife before I went into the airport was to make sure he learned to play it, because deep down I wasn't positive I wouldn't get stranded without gas out on the road. 

 

Before I left I started a post here for other people in my position as both a source of information and a place for moral support. I then drove 8 hours that first day, only made it to Orlando (from ft lauderdale, should have been 3). The next day I drove 16 hours straight with literally three 15 minute breaks, with four pets in the car. On those breaks I tried to find the thread to get some motivation and inspiration, because this was literally the most terrifying time in my life, but they were pushed down the wall...I thought.

 

When I finally got to my destination, turns out the thread was moved off the wall...wasn't football related...no crap, but as someone who has been an active part of this board since 2008 I deserved better. That was one of the most hurtful things people who were supposed to be on my side have done to me. That might sound hyperbolic, but again, Irma was going to level my house, literally. If it hit as a cat 5 there was a really good chance I would not have a home to go back to, and I would be separated from my family for a really long time. 

 

How about instead of wishing ill will against someone who is doing something he is extremely passionate about, and doing it well, we focus on maybe making this place a little bit better, because the way that I was treated during that emergency was piss poor.

 

By the way, there were great tips in that thread that got pushed off the wall that would have saved me a couple hours of driving and a lot of moral support that would have really helped me mentally.

 

Not everyone has had as great of an experience with Turner as you have.  A few of the people in this thread can vouch for that.  

 

Regardless, I don’t recall anyone wishing him “ill will,” as you put it.  There seems to be 2 different topics associated in this thread?

 

1. Should the Bills give Cover 1 media access?

 

2. Is Cover 1’s excessive use of NFL footage an infringement of copyright?

 

No one really trashed Turner or Cover 1. In fact, most of the comments are largely complimentary.   I agree with you that for the most part, there’s a pretty good community there.  I’m on the fence about the whole media credentials issue 

[HardyBoy]

35 minutes ago, Phil The Thrill said:

 

Not everyone has had as great of an experience with Turner as you have.  A few of the people in this thread can vouch for that.  

 

Regardless, I don’t recall anyone wishing him “ill will,” as you put it.  There seems to be 2 different topics associated in this thread?

 

1. Should the Bills give Cover 1 media access?

 

2. Is Cover 1’s excessive use of NFL footage an infringement of copyright?

 

No one really trashed Turner or Cover 1. In fact, most of the comments are largely complimentary.   I agree with you that for the most part, there’s a pretty good community there.  I’m on the fence about the whole media credentials issue 

 

People are saying his content is meh, because they personally dislike him. That could cause people to not go to his content when they read that here when they otherwise would have, because of...right, personal reasons. The guy has current players spending time watching film with him...are they doing that because they think his content is meh? 

 

1) As far as the press pass, it's up to the bills, and as long as that's truly the case then fine, even though they are much more than just a blog. If instead it's really because the nfl is pressuring them, how is that not some type of anti-trust violation or something along those lines (the teams are supposed to be independent entities I thought). 

 

2) I think it's very clearly been established in this thread that what they do over there is covered under fair use. It's literaly the same thing as someone taking a thirty second scene from a movie, breaking it down and turning it into a half hour youtube video (both are film study :)). Also, there is no copyright claim to be made, because if there was the nfl would have stepped in already. They aren't some tiny operation flying under the radar, and I'm sure there are people in the nfl office that have variable compensation based on the number of copyright claims they can get opened. Also, I get the sense that some people in here would relsish if that happened to him, and his dream died, which is unsettling.

 

Now, there have been music companies that have put in copyright claims on people teaching others how to play a song in a video lesson. Mind boggling, but it's different because they are playing the full song there, so I could sort of see that, but here it is the same thing as an analysis of a movie scene and that is allowed.

[Buffalo716]

1 hour ago, HardyBoy said:

 

People are saying his content is meh, because they personally dislike him. That could cause people to not go to his content when they read that here when they otherwise would have, because of...right, personal reasons. The guy has current players spending time watching film with him...are they doing that because they think his content is meh? 

 

1) As far as the press pass, it's up to the bills, and as long as that's truly the case then fine, even though they are much more than just a blog. If instead it's really because the nfl is pressuring them, how is that not some type of anti-trust violation or something along those lines (the teams are supposed to be independent entities I thought). 

 

2) I think it's very clearly been established in this thread that what they do over there is covered under fair use. It's literaly the same thing as someone taking a thirty second scene from a movie, breaking it down and turning it into a half hour youtube video (both are film study :)). Also, there is no copyright claim to be made, because if there was the nfl would have stepped in already. They aren't some tiny operation flying under the radar, and I'm sure there are people in the nfl office that have variable compensation based on the number of copyright claims they can get opened. Also, I get the sense that some people in here would relsish if that happened to him, and his dream died, which is unsettling.

 

Now, there have been music companies that have put in copyright claims on people teaching others how to play a song in a video lesson. Mind boggling, but it's different because they are playing the full song there, so I could sort of see that, but here it is the same thing as an analysis of a movie scene and that is allowed.

 

3 hours ago, HardyBoy said:

Erik has done film reviews over Skype with both Poyer and Alexander, so yeah, there's that for everyone saying he's got nothing to offer and taking what in many cases seem like personal shots at someone. Frankly, I have disagreed with Erik many times on various topics, and we've had really good discussions about it every time, so maybe look in the mirror?

 

Erik and cover1 have put together a really cool, engaged and educated community of not just great fans, but also great people. Nobody gives you crap for wanting to talk about something that has already been talked about, and we talk about things not related to football all the time, especially during the offseason...it doesn't hurt the experience, it makes it better.

 

While some of you might have that sense of community here, it largely left for me when I had the north east eye wall of a category 5 hurricane projected literally to go over my house. My wife, 6 m/o at the time, and I were on vacation, and I flewback home myself, pulled an all nighter packing up my house by myself, and started driving with my wedding albums, 3 cats and a dog in a toyota corolla. I had to leave my ukulele up north, and last thing I told my wife before I went into the airport was to make sure he learned to play it, because deep down I wasn't positive I wouldn't get stranded without gas out on the road. 

 

Before I left I started a post here for other people in my position as both a source of information and a place for moral support. I then drove 8 hours that first day, only made it to Orlando (from ft lauderdale, should have been 3). The next day I drove 16 hours straight with literally three 15 minute breaks, with four pets in the car. On those breaks I tried to find the thread to get some motivation and inspiration, because this was literally the most terrifying time in my life, but they were pushed down the wall...I thought.

 

When I finally got to my destination, turns out the thread was moved off the wall...wasn't football related...no crap, but as someone who has been an active part of this board since 2008 I deserved better. That was one of the most hurtful things people who were supposed to be on my side have done to me. That might sound hyperbolic, but again, Irma was going to level my house, literally. If it hit as a cat 5 there was a really good chance I would not have a home to go back to, and I would be separated from my family for a really long time. 

 

How about instead of wishing ill will against someone who is doing something he is extremely passionate about, and doing it well, we focus on maybe making this place a little bit better, because the way that I was treated during that emergency was piss poor.

 

By the way, there were great tips in that thread that got pushed off the wall that would have saved me a couple hours of driving and a lot of moral support that would have really helped me mentally.

Well first let me offer my sympathy for what you had to go through.. and I wouldn't take it personal that it was moved to off the wall... I visit that part as much as this and many do and I'm sure people saw your thread... Maybe go to your recent threads started and you would find it sooner... Sorry for what you had to go through

 

And per the bold, I remember when he started and his take on a play would be off and people would say why he is off or want to debate

 

Then he would would just block them or not respond. He didn't want dialogue, he wanted a place to get an ad for cover1

 

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

14 hours ago, BullBuchanan said:

Is an "internet blogger" not a professional?

good question 

here's 3 more

 

Do they register as a small business? 

Do they profit from it?

Do they pay taxes on all $ earned? 

 

 

[Phil The Thrill]

8 hours ago, HardyBoy said:

 

People are saying his content is meh, because they personally dislike him. That could cause people to not go to his content when they read that here when they otherwise would have, because of...right, personal reasons. The guy has current players spending time watching film with him...are they doing that because they think his content is meh? 

 

1) As far as the press pass, it's up to the bills, and as long as that's truly the case then fine, even though they are much more than just a blog. If instead it's really because the nfl is pressuring them, how is that not some type of anti-trust violation or something along those lines (the teams are supposed to be independent entities I thought). 

 

2) I think it's very clearly been established in this thread that what they do over there is covered under fair use. It's literaly the same thing as someone taking a thirty second scene from a movie, breaking it down and turning it into a half hour youtube video (both are film study :)). Also, there is no copyright claim to be made, because if there was the nfl would have stepped in already. They aren't some tiny operation flying under the radar, and I'm sure there are people in the nfl office that have variable compensation based on the number of copyright claims they can get opened. Also, I get the sense that some people in here would relsish if that happened to him, and his dream died, which is unsettling.

 

Now, there have been music companies that have put in copyright claims on people teaching others how to play a song in a video lesson. Mind boggling, but it's different because they are playing the full song there, so I could sort of see that, but here it is the same thing as an analysis of a movie scene and that is allowed.

 

Wrong!  Some people have assumed that his work is covered under fair use.  But my guess is that very few of us are copyright lawyers specializing in IP on the internet.   Just because Turner or and fans of Cover 1 want that to be true, it doesn’t mean it’s a certainty.  

 

Fair use is a defense that really has never been used effectively in court.  My take is that if the NFL wanted to take down Cover 1, they could.  

 

So what is a fact, is that Cover 1’s use of proprietary footage from the NFL is a gray area in terms of copyright.  

6 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:

 

Well first let me offer my sympathy for what you had to go through.. and I wouldn't take it personal that it was moved to off the wall... I visit that part as much as this and many do and I'm sure people saw your thread... Maybe go to your recent threads started and you would find it sooner... Sorry for what you had to go through

 

And per the bold, I remember when he started and his take on a play would be off and people would say why he is off or want to debate

 

Then he would would just block them or not respond. He didn't want dialogue, he wanted a place to get an ad for cover1

 

 

This has been my experience as well.  If you don’t agree with his opinion, he’ll block you. 

[GunnerBill]

21 hours ago, Lurker said:

 

Pretty weak arguments, IMO.

 

"A company stating what they want does not make it the law"

 

     A subscriber checking the "I agree" box on the terms and conditions registration form makes it a binding legal agreement.   

 

 

So long as it does not override any statutory legal right.  Important caveat. 

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

8 hours ago, HardyBoy said:

 

People are saying his content is meh, because they personally dislike him. That could cause people to not go to his content when they read that here when they otherwise would have, because of...right, personal reasons. The guy has current players spending time watching film with him...are they doing that because they think his content is meh? 

 

1) As far as the press pass, it's up to the bills, and as long as that's truly the case then fine, even though they are much more than just a blog. If instead it's really because the nfl is pressuring them, how is that not some type of anti-trust violation or something along those lines (the teams are supposed to be independent entities I thought). 

 

2) I think it's very clearly been established in this thread that what they do over there is covered under fair use. It's literaly the same thing as someone taking a thirty second scene from a movie, breaking it down and turning it into a half hour youtube video (both are film study :)). Also, there is no copyright claim to be made, because if there was the nfl would have stepped in already. They aren't some tiny operation flying under the radar, and I'm sure there are people in the nfl office that have variable compensation based on the number of copyright claims they can get opened. Also, I get the sense that some people in here would relsish if that happened to him, and his dream died, which is unsettling.

 

Now, there have been music companies that have put in copyright claims on people teaching others how to play a song in a video lesson. Mind boggling, but it's different because they are playing the full song there, so I could sort of see that, but here it is the same thing as an analysis of a movie scene and that is allowed.

 

There's a saying here ...     More Insight, less incite. 

 

I don't mind his recapping of the practices.   It's the snark that does him no justice.  (unless he wants to be a shock jock)  

 

[GunnerBill]

10 hours ago, HardyBoy said:

Erik has done film reviews over Skype with both Poyer and Alexander, so yeah, there's that for everyone saying he's got nothing to offer and taking what in many cases seem like personal shots at someone. Frankly, I have disagreed with Erik many times on various topics, and we've had really good discussions about it every time, so maybe look in the mirror?

 

Erik and cover1 have put together a really cool, engaged and educated community of not just great fans, but also great people. Nobody gives you crap for wanting to talk about something that has already been talked about, and we talk about things not related to football all the time, especially during the offseason...it doesn't hurt the experience, it makes it better.

 

While some of you might have that sense of community here, it largely left for me when I had the north east eye wall of a category 5 hurricane projected literally to go over my house. My wife, 6 m/o at the time, and I were on vacation, and I flewback home myself, pulled an all nighter packing up my house by myself, and started driving with my wedding albums, 3 cats and a dog in a toyota corolla. I had to leave my ukulele up north, and last thing I told my wife before I went into the airport was to make sure he learned to play it, because deep down I wasn't positive I wouldn't get stranded without gas out on the road. 

 

Before I left I started a post here for other people in my position as both a source of information and a place for moral support. I then drove 8 hours that first day, only made it to Orlando (from ft lauderdale, should have been 3). The next day I drove 16 hours straight with literally three 15 minute breaks, with four pets in the car. On those breaks I tried to find the thread to get some motivation and inspiration, because this was literally the most terrifying time in my life, but they were pushed down the wall...I thought.

 

When I finally got to my destination, turns out the thread was moved off the wall...wasn't football related...no crap, but as someone who has been an active part of this board since 2008 I deserved better. That was one of the most hurtful things people who were supposed to be on my side have done to me. That might sound hyperbolic, but again, Irma was going to level my house, literally. If it hit as a cat 5 there was a really good chance I would not have a home to go back to, and I would be separated from my family for a really long time. 

 

How about instead of wishing ill will against someone who is doing something he is extremely passionate about, and doing it well, we focus on maybe making this place a little bit better, because the way that I was treated during that emergency was piss poor.

 

By the way, there were great tips in that thread that got pushed off the wall that would have saved me a couple hours of driving and a lot of moral support that would have really helped me mentally.

 

Sounds like a very difficult time for you and you have my sympathy but not sure what Irma has to do with this debate?

[Gugny]

4 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Sounds like a very difficult time for you and you have my sympathy but not sure what Irma has to do with this debate?

 

Or why it was such a travesty to move the thread to OTW.

[\GoBillsInDallas/]

Over the weekend, I emailed a friend of mine who is a writer for the Fort Worth Star Telegram (though he doesn't cover sports). Here's what he said.

1. For season-long coverage, most pro or college teams have a form that needs to be filled out, submitted, and approved.

2. For individual game coverage, teams will require an e-mail or a faxed letter on letterhead,

3. The email needs to be from a work email account that is associated with the media being represented. Personal email accounts are not acceptable,

4. The information that needs to be provided includes

• Employee name, office phone, cell phone, email
• Supervisor's name, office phone, cell phone, email
• Name of Media organization
• Physical address of Media organization
• Description of what the employee does for the Media organization (photographer, team beat writer, columnist, etc.)
• Names of Professional Media Organizations that the employee belongs to

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

10 minutes ago, \GoBillsInDallas/ said:

Over the weekend, I emailed a friend of mine who is a writer for the Fort Worth Star Telegram (though he doesn't cover sports). Here's what he said.

1. For season-long coverage, most pro or college teams have a form that needs to be filled out, submitted, and approved.

2. For individual game coverage, teams will require an e-mail or a faxed letter on letterhead,

3. The email needs to be from a work email account that is associated with the media being represented. Personal email accounts are not acceptable,

4. The information that needs to be provided includes

• Employee name, office phone, cell phone, email
• Supervisor's name, office phone, cell phone, email
• Name of Media organization
• Physical address of Media organization
• Description of what the employee does for the Media organization (photographer, team beat writer, columnist, etc.)
• Names of Professional Media Organizations that the employee belongs to

 

As the saying goes 

“If they don't get it, they don't get it.”.

[GunnerBill]

15 minutes ago, \GoBillsInDallas/ said:

Over the weekend, I emailed a friend of mine who is a writer for the Fort Worth Star Telegram (though he doesn't cover sports). Here's what he said.

1. For season-long coverage, most pro or college teams have a form that needs to be filled out, submitted, and approved.

2. For individual game coverage, teams will require an e-mail or a faxed letter on letterhead,

3. The email needs to be from a work email account that is associated with the media being represented. Personal email accounts are not acceptable,

4. The information that needs to be provided includes

• Employee name, office phone, cell phone, email
• Supervisor's name, office phone, cell phone, email
• Name of Media organization
• Physical address of Media organization
• Description of what the employee does for the Media organization (photographer, team beat writer, columnist, etc.)
• Names of Professional Media Organizations that the employee belongs to

 

I think that last one basically accords with what is normal in the UK as I referenced earlier. If you are working "freelance" not for a major media company, you need to show that you are accredited by one of the professional trade association bodies - in the UK there are basically three main ones - The National Union of Journalists, The British Association of Journalists, or the Broadcast Journalists Training Council. If you are a freelancer not accredited by one of those three you won't get passes for press conferences or games. 

Edited August 5, 2019 by GunnerBill

[K-9]

17 minutes ago, \GoBillsInDallas/ said:

Over the weekend, I emailed a friend of mine who is a writer for the Fort Worth Star Telegram (though he doesn't cover sports). Here's what he said.

1. For season-long coverage, most pro or college teams have a form that needs to be filled out, submitted, and approved.

2. For individual game coverage, teams will require an e-mail or a faxed letter on letterhead,

3. The email needs to be from a work email account that is associated with the media being represented. Personal email accounts are not acceptable,

4. The information that needs to be provided includes

• Employee name, office phone, cell phone, email
• Supervisor's name, office phone, cell phone, email
• Name of Media organization
• Physical address of Media organization
• Description of what the employee does for the Media organization (photographer, team beat writer, columnist, etc.)
• Names of Professional Media Organizations that the employee belongs to

Perfectly reasonable criteria. Seems simple enough for Eric Turner to do. I suspect, though, that he simply doesn’t have the necessary media credentials to satisfy that criteria.