New Era "Return of the Blue and Red" Practice 8/2 night

[BADOLBILZ]

7 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

You can only sign in FA what is there. To my mind the Bills got the best center (concussions are a legit concern though) and the best guard and then they drafted one of the better linemen in the draft and added a bunch of other possible depth pieces in FA who all have at least been starters for periods. 

 

As for offensive weaponry - that was harder. Was a much thinner market. You yourself have said - and I think you are right - fewer true offensive playmakers are hitting FA than a few years away. If the Bills are gonna find a real difference maker at WR I suspect they are going to either have to trade for him (they tested the AB situation) or they will have to draft him. I know you were among the crowd higher on taking a chance on DK Metcalf in the 2nd round. I get that but I was not a huge fan. I suspect a #1 wide receiver will have to wait until the 2020 draft. In the meantime they need to get years from Brown and Beasley closer to their best years than their average ones. 

 

 

You are falling into that "this offseason was their only chance to put a good WR corps together" mode.

 

It's been 3 offseasons for McDermott.

 

If he expended the effort on offense that he and later Beane have expended in adding quality to the defense then it gets done.

 

Consciously or otherwise they have been pretty true to the Carolina "defense first and let the QB figure it out" team building philosophy that many feared they would bring.

 

When you operate in Buffalo you gotta' draft and spend to get and retain offensive talent.

[GunnerBill]

8 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

You are falling into that "this offseason was their only chance to put a good WR corps together" mode.

 

It's been 3 offseasons for McDermott.

 

If he expended the effort on offense that he and later Beane have expended in adding quality to the defense then it gets done.

 

Consciously or otherwise they have been pretty true to the Carolina "defense first and let the QB figure it out" team building philosophy that many feared they would bring.

 

When you operate in Buffalo you gotta' draft and spend to get and retain offensive talent.

 

No I never said that. You have fallen into the trap of believing that was my argument. I was talking purely about their attempt to upgrade this offseason on what was a bottom feeder offense last year. There is no doubt they have made some questionable decisions in previous offseasons in terms of the offense and I have been critical of some of those moves. This year I like what they have done on the oline and think while receiver is still a question mark it wasn't a great year for options in that regard. 

[BADOLBILZ]

1 minute ago, GunnerBill said:

 

No I never said that. You have fallen into the trap of believing that was my argument. I was talking purely about their attempt to upgrade this offseason on what was a bottom feeder offense last year. There is no doubt they have made some questionable decisions in previous offseasons in terms of the offense and I have been critical of some of those moves. This year I like what they have done on the oline and think while receiver is still a question mark it wasn't a great year for options in that regard. 

 

You can't look at this offseason as an isolated chance to improve the WR corps...........it's been 3 years..........you were just addressing last offseason and issuing something of a pass.

 

I know you know better but what I am saying is the truth and you know that...........they have known since the day McDermott was hired that they were going to be drafting a QB and that they were going to need to either retain or acquire very good receiving talent around him.    It's that simple.

 

After being told "they will fix that later" for 3 offseasons..........IMO it's just time to show us the baby.

 

It's winning time........the time frame for lame excuses has expired.

[Nihilarian]

Man, all this negativity when the team hasn't even played a pre season game ...

 

Kind of early for all the Bills fans nay Sayers to be spouting bad stuff when I hear people like NFL network Daniel Jeremiah saying he really like what the Bills did this off season. Most people look at the additions of WR John Brown, WR Cole Beasley, KR/WR Andre Roberts (who led the league for the NY Jets in kick returns) as good pickups. 

 

Buffalo also signed top CFL receiver Duke Williams who is no smurf at 6'3'' 225 lbs. 

 

"In two CFL seasons with the Edmonton Eskimos, the 25-year-old Williams has 2,294 yards on 135 catches with 15 touchdowns in 31 games. Last season, he led the league with 1,579 receiving yards and tied for the CFL lead in receiving touchdowns with 11. He also had 88 receptions, including 11 for more than 30 yards, on 152 targets."

 

Let's not forget TEs like Lee Smith, Tyler Kroft and a kid who is quietly being regarded as a lesser TJ Hockenson in Dawson Knox. Plus Tommy Sweeny, walk on WR David Sills.

 

Lastly, sometimes it takes seasons for some players to develop into top players and that door is still open for Zay Jones. Also Ray Ray McCloud, Robert Foster.

 

Can we at least watch a pre season game to see what the offense will look like before declaring the season/draft/free agency a failure.  

 

 

 

 

[K-9]

4 minutes ago, Nihilarian said:

Man, all this negativity when the team hasn't even played a pre season game ...

 

Kind of early for all the Bills fans nay Sayers to be spouting bad stuff when I hear people like NFL network Daniel Jeremiah saying he really like what the Bills did this off season. Most people look at the additions of WR John Brown, WR Cole Beasley, KR/WR Andre Roberts (who led the league for the NY Jets in kick returns) as good pickups. 

 

Buffalo also signed top CFL receiver Duke Williams who is no smurf at 6'3'' 225 lbs. 

 

"In two CFL seasons with the Edmonton Eskimos, the 25-year-old Williams has 2,294 yards on 135 catches with 15 touchdowns in 31 games. Last season, he led the league with 1,579 receiving yards and tied for the CFL lead in receiving touchdowns with 11. He also had 88 receptions, including 11 for more than 30 yards, on 152 targets."

 

Let's not forget TEs like Lee Smith, Tyler Kroft and a kid who is quietly being regarded as a lesser TJ Hockenson in Dawson Knox. Plus Tommy Sweeny, walk on WR David Sills.

 

Lastly, sometimes it takes seasons for some players to develop into top players and that door is still open for Zay Jones. Also Ray Ray McCloud, Robert Foster.

 

Can we at least watch a pre season game to see what the offense will look like before declaring the season/draft/free agency a failure.  

 

 

 

 

Seems to some that since they couldn’t trade for a top WR (although they tried to land AB), didn’t draft a WR in a crappy WR class, and couldn’t find an All Pro wideout in free agency that, once again, the Bills front office screwed the pooch and we are doomed to failure this season. All this razor sharp insight after only a week and a half of training camp, too. 

 

The group myopia makes it impossible to give McBeane ANY credit for other signings recognized league wide as very solid pickups. 

[GunnerBill]

21 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

You can't look at this offseason as an isolated chance to improve the WR corps...........it's been 3 years..........you were just addressing last offseason and issuing something of a pass.

 

I know you know better but what I am saying is the truth and you know that...........they have known since the day McDermott was hired that they were going to be drafting a QB and that they were going to need to either retain or acquire very good receiving talent around him.    It's that simple.

 

After being told "they will fix that later" for 3 offseasons..........IMO it's just time to show us the baby.

 

It's winning time........the time frame for lame excuses has expired.

 

I have not given a pass. Not at all. All I said was there were not many options in this particular FA class. I do think some fans have slightly crazy expectations for what Beasley in particular will do. Still not seeing / hearing from camp bits enough to lead me to believe Josh is ready to really take advantage of an upgrade at slot receiver. 

[K-9]

This talk of “falling into traps” believing this or that is interesting. 

 

Here’s another one: some have “fallen into the trap” of believing that building a team is a linear process when nothing is farther from the truth. 

 

And because building a football team is not a linear process, the floodgates of criticism are always gonna be open for those that think another part of the team should have been built at any particular moment instead. I goddamn guarantee that if the Bills had  built the WR group earlier, then those currently upset by the delay in building a better WR corps, would be just as tweaked if other areas, like the OLine or Dline for example, were ignored. 

Edited August 4, 2019 by K-9

[BADOLBILZ]

30 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I have not given a pass. Not at all. All I said was there were not many options in this particular FA class. I do think some fans have slightly crazy expectations for what Beasley in particular will do. Still not seeing / hearing from camp bits enough to lead me to believe Josh is ready to really take advantage of an upgrade at slot receiver. 

 

 

It wasn't a great free agent class but it rarely is.    Also 2 of the 4 best WR in football were traded though so they can't say it wasn't a year where elite ones simply weren't available.    It's just that when you push all your eggs into the "we'll fix that then" basket then you run that risk of having an offseason that doesn't matchup perfectly.

 

Agree on Beasley.   He's been pretty underwhelming player in his career and he played with a dink and dunk QB in Dak and still didn't really achieve much.

 

As for DK I don't expect him to become a great WR but he has a special skillset that fit Allen's current state perfectly.    Big arm, inaccurate, needs to make big plays to be effective offensively QB..........and having a potentially unique field stretching threat would open up the short to intermediate stuff where he could afford to be less accurate.  Foster and Brown are deep threats but Metcalf is a massive target.    It's not just the short to intermediate throws that Allen is not pin-point on.

[GunnerBill]

1 hour ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

It wasn't a great free agent class but it rarely is.    Also 2 of the 4 best WR in football were traded though so they can't say it wasn't a year where elite ones simply weren't available.    It's just that when you push all your eggs into the "we'll fix that then" basket then you run that risk of having an offseason that doesn't matchup perfectly.

 

Agree on Beasley.   He's been pretty underwhelming player in his career and he played with a dink and dunk QB in Dak and still didn't really achieve much.

 

As for DK I don't expect him to become a great WR but he has a special skillset that fit Allen's current state perfectly.    Big arm, inaccurate, needs to make big plays to be effective offensively QB..........and having a potentially unique field stretching threat would open up the short to intermediate stuff where he could afford to be less accurate.  Foster and Brown are deep threats but Metcalf is a massive target.    It's not just the short to intermediate throws that Allen is not pin-point on.

 

Metcalf is a massive target.... but he doesn't catch a lot that isn't on him. His lack of agility and adjustment is one of the reasons he wasn't a 1st rounder. Which I said he wasn't the whole draft season. To me early on he is a massive work in progress as a route runner, with limited college production and at the moment I think his usage is as a guy who mainly runs go routes. We have one of those already in Foster. 

 

Agree on Brown and OBJ. There were ways to get a guy. I was talking purely about their approach to FA. 

[BADOLBILZ]

3 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Metcalf is a massive target.... but he doesn't catch a lot that isn't on him. His lack of agility and adjustment is one of the reasons he wasn't a 1st rounder. Which I said he wasn't the whole draft season. To me early on he is a massive work in progress as a route runner, with limited college production and at the moment I think his usage is as a guy who mainly runs go routes. We have one of those already in Foster. 

 

Agree on Brown and OBJ. There were ways to get a guy. I was talking purely about their approach to FA. 

 

 

I guess you gotta' define "on him"..........some of his best plays were extended armed grabs of vertical throws that were so far in front of him that they would easily fall incomplete to almost any other receiver on the planet.   He has those Moss/Plaxico proportions and excellent tracking ability.    Maybe that's all he has but that's A LOT when you have a young QB with the range that Allen has.    Apparently DK has excelled at just this when working with Russell Wilson in the offseason as well.    Young Big Ben and Eli were elevated by being able to  overthrow Plax.   He wasn't that good of a receiver otherwise so it tells you how much that one skill meant.    Daunte Culpepper once threw 39 TD passes in great part just due to tossing up deep balls to Moss and the room the threat of that created.   The biggest issue with DK IMO is staying healthy..........but that skillset he has is perfect for a guy like Josh Allen, IMO.

[Gugny]

2 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

I guess you gotta' define "on him"..........some of his best plays were extended armed grabs of vertical throws that were so far in front of him that they would easily fall incomplete to almost any other receiver on the planet.   He has those Moss/Plaxico proportions and excellent tracking ability.    Maybe that's all he has but that's A LOT when you have a young QB with the range that Allen has.    Apparently DK has excelled at just this when working with Russell Wilson in the offseason as well.    Young Big Ben and Eli were elevated by being able to  overthrow Plax.   He wasn't that good of a receiver otherwise so it tells you how much that one skill meant.    Daunte Culpepper once threw 39 TD passes in great part just due to tossing up deep balls to Moss and the room the threat of that created.   The biggest issue with DK IMO is staying healthy..........but that skillset he has is perfect for a guy like Josh Allen, IMO.

 

If you focused on actual Buffalo Bills as much as you focus on guys the Bills didn't draft/trade for/acquire via free agency, you'd be pretty knowledgeable about the Bills.

 

Instead, you spend your time obsessing over players who are NOT Buffalo Bills and dedicate your life to telling anyone who will listen that the Bills have horrible brass, coaching and players.

 

Talk about old and tired, oh untouchable one.  Yawn.

 

 

[NoHuddleKelly12]

On 8/3/2019 at 12:14 PM, K-9 said:

Always loved this axiom.

Astro notes from today—He used it too, what are the odds?

[K-9]

7 hours ago, NoHuddleKelly12 said:

Astro notes from today—He used it too, what are the odds?

I think he read your post.