BringBackOrton Posted August 2, 2019 Posted August 2, 2019 I have been thinking about this a lot lately. About who I’m really more afraid of in the coming years. And I’m torn. A part of me believes that tech giants are the biggest threat to our liberty today. They control information like nobody else. When you look at the Bill of Rights and the reasoning for our guaranteed freedoms, it was based in part to infringements by the government on our right to assembly, free speech, protest, and press. I’m not sure anyone has done more damage in that arena in the last 2 years than tech. That same part of me wonders if the Founders saw our world today, they would be far more concerned with the tech giants and corporations than the government. I’m not anti-capitalist. Those of you who recognize me know that. But I do wonder if we require a massive paradigm shift in how we think about these corporations. I do not accept that our only options are corporate tyranny or sanctioned government tyranny. I know the most basic counter argument. The free market will sort them out. But doesn’t the free market rely on open communication? Doesn’t it rely on alternatives existing, on knowing those alternatives are out there? Interested to hear y’all’s thoughts. 1
3rdnlng Posted August 2, 2019 Posted August 2, 2019 This is like asking what came first, the chicken or the egg? Anyway, good thread topic. 2
Deranged Rhino Posted August 2, 2019 Posted August 2, 2019 10 minutes ago, BringBackOrton said: Interested to hear y’all’s thoughts. Great topic. My personal views are echoed above in what 3rd said. The reality is that big tech = the intelligence community. Google (DARPA/DoD), Amazon (CIA), Facebook (CIA/DARPA) -- all began as government backed programs. The model we have seen with the development, funding, and then privatization of those companies are similar to moves we've seen in the past by the military industrial complex and intelligence communities: take their most sensitive programs away from government oversight and regulation by creating corporate shells around them. So it really is a chicken or egg question. But I don't want to dodge the question either. Big Tech, in today's world, can crush an individual's liberty anywhere on the planet through doxxing, exposing, or outright lying and controlling the narrative. It's allowed the establishment IC / government agendas to be pushed, without question, on the world at large and to control the narrative on virtually any story that may pop up. That's real power... What to do about it? I don't know. But it starts with exposing the big tech companies for who they truly are: US Intelligence assets, not private companies. 2
B-Man Posted August 2, 2019 Posted August 2, 2019 Funny, the final 6 or 7 shows of the CBS series, Elementary are somewhat involved in this question. Holmes and Watson join forces with Holmes' father, Morland (John Noble), to enlist his vast criminal network to help disassemble tech billionaire Odin Reichenbach's crime prevention system. The owner of the (google-like) system, has uncontrolled access to everyone's information throughout the world and is using it to kill people who's private info predicts that they will become killers. Holmes cannot go to the government, because most of them are bought off or blackmailed by the tech giant also. While I assume that (like the real Holmes) this one will die while killing off the billionaire Reichenbach, I will be interested to see if they address destroying the chance for anyone else to misuse that power (I doubt it) .
BringBackOrton Posted August 2, 2019 Author Posted August 2, 2019 14 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said: Great topic. My personal views are echoed above in what 3rd said. The reality is that big tech = the intelligence community. Google (DARPA/DoD), Amazon (CIA), Facebook (CIA/DARPA) -- all began as government backed programs. The model we have seen with the development, funding, and then privatization of those companies are similar to moves we've seen in the past by the military industrial complex and intelligence communities: take their most sensitive programs away from government oversight and regulation by creating corporate shells around them. So it really is a chicken or egg question. But I don't want to dodge the question either. Big Tech, in today's world, can crush an individual's liberty anywhere on the planet through doxxing, exposing, or outright lying and controlling the narrative. It's allowed the establishment IC / government agendas to be pushed, without question, on the world at large and to control the narrative on virtually any story that may pop up. That's real power... What to do about it? I don't know. But it starts with exposing the big tech companies for who they truly are: US Intelligence assets, not private companies. Very interesting points, appreciate your input. Can we not now consider these giants separate entities from the traditional government? Regardless of their origins, if they refuse to play by the rules of the government, doesn’t that imply we need new rules? 4 minutes ago, B-Man said: Funny, the final 6 or 7 shows of the CBS series, Elementary are somewhat involved in this question. Holmes and Watson join forces with Holmes' father, Morland (John Noble), to enlist his vast criminal network to help disassemble tech billionaire Odin Reichenbach's crime prevention system. The owner of the (google-like) system, has uncontrolled access to everyone's information throughout the world and is using it to kill people who's private info predicts that they will become killers. Holmes cannot go to the government, because most of them are bought off or blackmailed by the tech giant also. While I assume that (like the real Holmes) this one will die while killing off the billionaire Reichenbach, I will be interested to see if they address destroying the chance for anyone else to misuse that power (I doubt it) . Funnily enough, I made this topic because I was thinking about the Alien movies. And how they didn’t have a government, but they all worked for some kind of mega-corp that functioned like one. And that’s not an unusual trope in the sci fi genre. I used to think that was some kind of funny fear-mongering. Less sure now. 1
Deranged Rhino Posted August 2, 2019 Posted August 2, 2019 1 minute ago, BringBackOrton said: Very interesting points, appreciate your input. Can we not now consider these giants separate entities from the traditional government? Regardless of their origins, if they refuse to play by the rules of the government, doesn’t that imply we need new rules? I'm admittedly "far out there" with this response... That question for me gets into the deeper control structure of the world at large -- who's really on top? Nation States or their intelligence services? Or something else? I think it's safe to call them private entities at present, certainly, but they march to the orders of the (former) establishment folk who set up their shops. They've been separated from the official IC in this country with Trump's win, but if he loses in 2020 they'll all be brought back under the gov't umbrella (unofficially of course). That being the case, it does seem like now is the best time to try to solve this problem before they crawl back into their protective shell. So yes, I think we need to consider new rules or some form of regulation that allows us (the people) some degree of recourse and oversight over these behemoths -- I just have no idea where to begin with that conversation/solution. I'm not sure breaking them up into smaller companies works or changes the issue... but I'm curious to hear what others who have a better handle on the tech sector and possible solutions have to say on that front. 2
Koko78 Posted August 2, 2019 Posted August 2, 2019 Well, I admit that the CIA is doing a hell of a job getting merchandise to me quickly, with no shipping costs, as part of my CIA Prime membership. Though I wish my Echo Dot would answer to 'Wiretap', instead of 'Alexa' or 'Computer'... 1 2
Paulus Posted August 2, 2019 Posted August 2, 2019 In America, right now? Yes. As a matter practical application? No. Might makes right.
3rdnlng Posted August 2, 2019 Posted August 2, 2019 55 minutes ago, Koko78 said: Well, I admit that the CIA is doing a hell of a job getting merchandise to me quickly, with no shipping costs, as part of my CIA Prime membership. Though I wish my Echo Dot would answer to 'Wiretap', instead of 'Alexa' or 'Computer'... But do you get a second item with no shipping costs, just a separate charge?
/dev/null Posted August 2, 2019 Posted August 2, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Koko78 said: Though I wish my Echo Dot would answer to 'Wiretap', instead of 'Alexa' or 'Computer'... I wish my Firestick answered to O'Brien Edited August 2, 2019 by /dev/null 1
TakeYouToTasker Posted August 2, 2019 Posted August 2, 2019 3 hours ago, BringBackOrton said: I have been thinking about this a lot lately. About who I’m really more afraid of in the coming years. And I’m torn. A part of me believes that tech giants are the biggest threat to our liberty today. They control information like nobody else. When you look at the Bill of Rights and the reasoning for our guaranteed freedoms, it was based in part to infringements by the government on our right to assembly, free speech, protest, and press. I’m not sure anyone has done more damage in that arena in the last 2 years than tech. That same part of me wonders if the Founders saw our world today, they would be far more concerned with the tech giants and corporations than the government. I’m not anti-capitalist. Those of you who recognize me know that. But I do wonder if we require a massive paradigm shift in how we think about these corporations. I do not accept that our only options are corporate tyranny or sanctioned government tyranny. I know the most basic counter argument. The free market will sort them out. But doesn’t the free market rely on open communication? Doesn’t it rely on alternatives existing, on knowing those alternatives are out there? Interested to hear y’all’s thoughts. Like the MSM, tech isn’t dangerous until government coopts it in order to propagandize and control it’s citizens. 2 1
Chef Jim Posted August 3, 2019 Posted August 3, 2019 Yesterday I was texting a friend. My iPhone for some reason autocorrect tacos to racist. Be afraid be very afraid. 16 hours ago, TakeYouToTasker said: Like the MSM, tech isn’t dangerous until government coopts it in order to propagandize and control it’s citizens. You’re not so naive to think this is not already happening? 1
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted August 3, 2019 Posted August 3, 2019 16 hours ago, TakeYouToTasker said: Like the MSM, tech isn’t dangerous until government coopts it in order to propagandize and control it’s citizens. Nnnnh. Not so sure.
TakeYouToTasker Posted August 3, 2019 Posted August 3, 2019 1 hour ago, Chef Jim said: You’re not so naive to think this is not already happening? Of course it’s already happening. Multiple tech platforms were created by the government towards this precise purpose. 1 hour ago, Joe in Winslow said: Nnnnh. Not so sure. See above. 1
Chef Jim Posted August 3, 2019 Posted August 3, 2019 58 minutes ago, TakeYouToTasker said: Of course it’s already happening. Multiple tech platforms were created by the government towards this precise purpose. Your wording (using the word until) suggested otherwise.
TakeYouToTasker Posted August 3, 2019 Posted August 3, 2019 1 hour ago, Chef Jim said: Your wording (using the word until) suggested otherwise. I was speaking in the abstract.
reddogblitz Posted August 3, 2019 Posted August 3, 2019 On 8/2/2019 at 10:47 AM, BringBackOrton said: Those of you who recognize me know that. But I do wonder if we require a massive paradigm shift in how we think about these corporations. It's too late. We could have done something about 10 or 12 years ago before so many people were addicted. I'm curious though. How do you see such a "massive paradigm shift" happening?
3rdnlng Posted August 3, 2019 Posted August 3, 2019 I recently switched auto insurance providers and I was offered a discount if I allowed them to monitor my driving, and inform me when I was going too fast or acting in an unsafe manner. If the agent wasn't a close relative I'd have walked out of the office.
Boatdrinks Posted August 3, 2019 Posted August 3, 2019 I voted no. No one really needs this stuff, and all information is freely volunteered. Caveat emptor comes to mind here. 1
Chef Jim Posted August 3, 2019 Posted August 3, 2019 21 minutes ago, 3rdnlng said: I recently switched auto insurance providers and I was offered a discount if I allowed them to monitor my driving, and inform me when I was going too fast or acting in an unsafe manner. If the agent wasn't a close relative I'd have walked out of the office. WTF?? Is this real? I’d not sign up for that even if my wife was the agent.
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