Mitch Morse in concussion protocol

[ddaryl]

9 minutes ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

Its concussion protocol. After everything the happened, teams just don't talk about concussion injuries. This isn't a Morse thing. Its a league thing. 

 

this is what is feeding the conjecture.

 

You are correct they can't really discuss it, but that leaves all of us worrying about his health and to a lesser extent can he actually play.

 

 

I expect him to be a go week 1 based on the fact they aren't saying much. If it was really bad I think we would not see him with the team at all, and we would of heard more details by now.

 

I'm still concerned for him though

 

 

[RochesterLifer]

1 hour ago, thebandit27 said:

 

I don't mean to make this about Watkins, but boy do I disagree there.

 

They didn't have to extend him, all they had to do was pick up his 5th year option, which would've paid him a bit over $10M (totally reasonable considering Tyrell Williams is currently getting $11M). After that, they could've tagged him for 2 straight years.  They basically gave up on him 3 years early, and as a result they've had nothing that resembles a downfield threat at WR for 2 full seasons.

Why would we? By his own admission he was a poor teammate and a bit of a diva. While we were not a good football team at the time, his departure did not cost us. In fact, the trade returns contributed more than his performance did.

[Boatdrinks]

Just now, ddaryl said:

 

this is what is feeding the conjecture.

 

You are correct they can't really discuss it, but that leaves all of us worrying about his health and to a lesser extent can he actually play.

 

 

I expect him to be a go week 1 based on the fact they aren't saying much. If it was really bad I think we would not see him with the team at all, and we would of heard more details by now.

 

I'm still concerned for him though

 

 

Not true, again because of the protocol. It could be really bad or mostly precautionary. Even if Morse wasn’t visible at camp there would be scant details and we’d likely not know anything more than we do now. It’s just handled differently than any other injury a player could sustain on the field. 

[eball]

The league not discussing players in the concussion protocol is a LEGAL issue -- as in, they're not going to subject themselves to any potential liability based upon what they do or don't say about concussions.  The subject is taboo.  A player is "in" the protocol until he is "out."  Period.

 

As for whether it was a good/bad/dumb/smart move by Beane to sign Morse to that contract?  I'll actually wait until some real football games are played before making that assessment.

[K-9]

43 minutes ago, njbuff said:

Like I have said..................

 

Why are they so mum about it?

McD is asked every day about Morse and every day McD says Morse is still in concussion protocol. What else, exactly, does he need to say so as not to appear “mum” about it? What info are you looking to get out of McD regarding Morse’s concussion?

[Boatdrinks]

2 minutes ago, RochesterLifer said:

Why would we? By his own admission he was a poor teammate and a bit of a diva. While we were not a good football team at the time, his departure did not cost us. In fact, the trade returns contributed more than his performance did.

Watkins statements on his own immaturity while here have been twisted and overblown. Besides, plenty of Diva WRs have been retained by their teams over the years. The strategy described for retaining SW could have been employed , and wouldn’t have been considered unusual at the time. No one knows how it may have turned out, and he was easily the Bills biggest receiving threat when here. 

[MR8]

1 hour ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

You did a great job explaining the contract @MR8 but you can't change peoples minds with facts if they don't want to hear them.

 

My hope now (not knowing how bad this is) is Morse can be back for the NYJ game and he can get thru as many games as possible this year.

This situation is probably going to be a game by game thing.

 

 

Thanks man, and I see what you're saying.   Part of my response is more than just for the guy I'm arguing against, it's also for the other people reading his post and maybe not having all the information to know why the argument he's putting up is inaccurate.

 

So Hopefully I can change his mind, but if not, at the very least, I've put the accurate information out there to help other people come to their own conclusion with all the facts and figures.

 

15 minutes ago, gobills1212 said:

Times like this, i wish there was a gold star rep point. This post made want to invent my own:)!!

 

Haha thanks buddy, these are fun analyses to run... 

 

When you look at our contracts versus those of the Jets and the Browns, you can see our GM has a clear road map towards keeping our young talent, and the Jets and Browns are looking for splashes versus "Building"... in a few years it's going to be VERY hard for them to keep their guys as those contracts are still big and hard to get out of, but our guys are all being re-signed because the bulk of the cap hits for our higher paid players are front loaded and the deals are easy to get out of. 

[thebandit27]

3 minutes ago, RochesterLifer said:

Why would we? By his own admission he was a poor teammate and a bit of a diva. While we were not a good football team at the time, his departure did not cost us. In fact, the trade returns contributed more than his performance did.

 

What??? When was the last time a Bills' pass catcher even sniffed 700 yards in a season?

 

His departure didn't cost us? He had over 2,000 yards receiving in the '14/'15 seasons playing on an offense that threw the ball less than any other unit in the league (this despite playing with a QB triumverate of EJ Manuel, Kyle Orton, and Tyrod Taylor).

 

Further, to say that this wasn't a good football team at the time is kind of crazy. The team was loaded on offense: McCoy, Watkins, Woods, Goodwin, Hogan, and an offensive line that was performing near the top of the league.

 

As for what the trade returns contributed, EJ Gaines missed parts of 8 games that season, and the pick that came back was used in a trade.

 

Lastly, why would they have kept Watkins? Probably so that they didn't have to spend $16M in free agency this season to bring in multiple players that they're hoping will produce 80% of what Watkins produced here when healthy.

[Doc]

2 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

What??? When was the last time a Bills' pass catcher even sniffed 700 yards in a season?

 

His departure didn't cost us? He had over 2,000 yards receiving in the '14/'15 seasons playing on an offense that threw the ball less than any other unit in the league (this despite playing with a QB triumverate of EJ Manuel, Kyle Orton, and Tyrod Taylor).

 

Further, to say that this wasn't a good football team at the time is kind of crazy. The team was loaded on offense: McCoy, Watkins, Woods, Goodwin, Hogan, and an offensive line that was performing near the top of the league.

 

As for what the trade returns contributed, EJ Gaines missed parts of 8 games that season, and the pick that came back was used in a trade.

 

Lastly, why would they have kept Watkins? Probably so that they didn't have to spend $16M in free agency this season to bring in multiple players that they're hoping will produce 80% of what Watkins produced here when healthy.

 

The Bills didn't need him in 2017 and his presence wouldn't have made much of a difference last year.  And so far he's failed to even get 700 yards since leaving.

[MR8]

1 hour ago, thebandit27 said:

 

I don't mean to make this about Watkins, but boy do I disagree there.

 

They didn't have to extend him, all they had to do was pick up his 5th year option, which would've paid him a bit over $10M (totally reasonable considering Tyrell Williams is currently getting $11M). After that, they could've tagged him for 2 straight years.  They basically gave up on him 3 years early, and as a result they've had nothing that resembles a downfield threat at WR for 2 full seasons.

 

They Made the decision not to pick up his option after the draft right when Beane was coming in and Whaley was being shown the door.  I wonder if the decision would've been the same if Beane had more time in the front office before he had to make the decision.

 

Regardless they decided not to pick up the option on a guy who had been hurt often, and they were in the process of revamping a roster.  Then when they got to Camp they saw an opportunity to move Sammy to get draft assets to help ensure they could get their QB.  They obviously valued that above all else... and I don't blame them.  

 

Regardless of if they'd picked up Sammy's option or not I think he would've been traded so they could add that 2nd and Gaines, which allowed them to feel comfortable trading away Darby for a 3rd and Matthews.  

 

That 2nd helped them get Allen, and that 3rd helped them get Edmunds...

 

Would you rather have Allen and Edmunds, or just Allen... the reason I put it that way, is if we didn't have a 2 seconds, we would've needed to give up our second 1st rounder to get Allen.  And we wouldn't have had the extra third we used to go up for Edmunds either. 

Edited August 12, 2019 by MR8

[Magox]

13 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

 

What??? When was the last time a Bills' pass catcher even sniffed 700 yards in a season?

 

His departure didn't cost us? He had over 2,000 yards receiving in the '14/'15 seasons playing on an offense that threw the ball less than any other unit in the league (this despite playing with a QB triumverate of EJ Manuel, Kyle Orton, and Tyrod Taylor).

 

Further, to say that this wasn't a good football team at the time is kind of crazy. The team was loaded on offense: McCoy, Watkins, Woods, Goodwin, Hogan, and an offensive line that was performing near the top of the league.

 

As for what the trade returns contributed, EJ Gaines missed parts of 8 games that season, and the pick that came back was used in a trade.

 

Lastly, why would they have kept Watkins? Probably so that they didn't have to spend $16M in free agency this season to bring in multiple players that they're hoping will produce 80% of what Watkins produced here when healthy.

 

Not pursuing Watkins was a really good decision by Bills brass for numerous reasons that have been discussed ad nauseum.   Not sure how this is even still a debate in some quarters. 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

29 minutes ago, Boatdrinks said:

Watkins statements on his own immaturity while here have been twisted and overblown. Besides, plenty of Diva WRs have been retained by their teams over the years. The strategy described for retaining SW could have been employed , and wouldn’t have been considered unusual at the time. No one knows how it may have turned out, and he was easily the Bills biggest receiving threat when here. 

 

When he was on the field, maybe.

 

[BADOLBILZ]

2 hours ago, MR8 said:

 

Did you even bother to read the rest of my post that you cut off?  Because it entirely disproves your inaccurate statements... I don't think you understand how the Salary cap or dead cap works...  Dead cap hits are the remainder of guaranteed money...  He got $11M at signing (money which has already been paid and needs to be accounted for over the 4 years of the deal at $2.75M per year), and $9.4M across the first 2 years of the deal.  Add up $11 + 9.4 and you get how much?  OHHHH right $20.4... the exact same as his dead cap hit if we cut him this year.

 

 

 

 

I understand how the salary cap works bud.

 

But here is something you apparently can't get your head around...................because you can roll forward all unused cap dollars at the end of a league year...............cap room spent on a player who is not playing that year is NOT "cap room saved" by waiting to cut them next year.

 

You spend $10M of cap space this year that's $10M you can't roll forward.    Understand?      

 

It's ultimately very simple........they are on the hook for AT LEAST Morse's guaranteed money.......$26.125M.

 

I mean do you or do you NOT understand what "guaranteed" means?

 

A minimum of $26.125M in cap space is allotted to Mitch Morse over the next two or three cap years depending on how the choose to account for it.

 

That's just the way it is.   

 

Whether you call it "dead" money or not is just semantics if the player doesn't play.   You don't get "salary cap credits" back for a player not being on the roster(aka "dead") as opposed to him being on IR or inactive on gamedays.    It's cap room spent for no play either way.

 

Now before anyone assumes I am writing Morse off for 2019 that is not the case.............I am just trying to explain how the salary cap ACTUALLY works to someone who clearly does not.    

[BADOLBILZ]

2 hours ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

 

Think Dareus was a little career threatening too as one incident away from a suspension from what I recall.

 

Of the 4 you mention, don't recall any attitude or at least not much with either Woods or Gilmore.  As far as I recall neither of them were not welcomed back if they had wanted to sign here.  Dareus, didn't I hear him being taken out last year for passing downs.  Is it really because he's it's been figured out that not very good or is it still related to attitude?  He may not be making the 11 O'clock news anymore, but is he really playing as well as he can?  Sammy well he's kind of faded to oblivion.

 

As for McCoy, so when exactly did he mature, after the 2013 incident when he kicked some woman off his party bus, or after the fight with the off-duty police in Philly, or was it after the domestic violence incident last year.  Does being out of the news over the last year changed him?  I'll grant you, he seems to be a locker room leader, just as Dareus may have been, but in a bad way.

 

 

1) Don't even go down the suspension path:

 

On Tuesday, anyone who didn’t already know of Pegula’s interest in the athlete representation business learned about it after he announced he had acquired Atlanta-based France AllPro Athlete Management, the agency of prominent NFL player agent Todd France.

 

Guess who the agent who negotiated that unprecedented contract without language protecting the team against suspension was.?

 

Dareus not playing well is on him..........but he had earned the contract with first team All Pro play.........the extraordinary language or lack thereof is on a couple of long time business pals.

 

2)  Gilmore had quit in him as a Bill.........most of his big plays allowed were at the end of plays that he had otherwise well covered but let up on....... and he wouldn't wrap up a ball carrier to save his life.   Woods was a walking tantrum for the first couple years as a Bill.   Own worst enemy.  That's really where the "Bob Woods is F'in crazy" stuff began.

 

 

Edited August 12, 2019 by BADOLBILZ

[oldmanfan]

3 hours ago, CommonCents said:

False. 

 

It’s a simple point and if you could get down from the hill of everything’s awesome then you’d see it.

 

Morse has a lengthy history of concussions, do you think it’s likely, possible, or impossible that someone in KC knew that Morse was either suffering severely or just not able to get past the mental block of sacrificing his health?

 

Obviously the story isn’t finished yet, this will be talked about a ton if he never comes back or plays less than a handful of games. 

 

I think they still made some nice oline decisions, heck I loved the Morse signing this winter. This just feels off though, the guy got concussed playing in the first practice then out for who knows how long.

Give me a break with the everything’s awesome junk.  I said Beane made a calculated gamble on Morse and if he can’t play then Beane lost.  

 

What I will absolutely guarantee is that Beane had a helluva lot more date available to him before pulling the trigger than any blowhard on a message board.

[thebandit27]

1 hour ago, Magox said:

 

Not pursuing Watkins was a really good decision by Bills brass for numerous reasons that have been discussed ad nauseum.   Not sure how this is even still a debate in some quarters. 

 

Pretty simple: the team went from having a WR that could threaten defenses at every level to having zero WRs that any D.C. even paid mind.

 

And they did it of their own volition when they had the player's rights for 3 more seasons uncontested.

[Albany,n.y.]

1 hour ago, MR8 said:

 

 

That 2nd helped them get Allen, and that 3rd helped them get Edmunds...

 

Would you rather have Allen and Edmunds, or just Allen... the reason I put it that way, is if we didn't have a 2 seconds, we would've needed to give up our second 1st rounder to get Allen.  And we wouldn't have had the extra third we used to go up for Edmunds either. 

The 3rd that was traded to Baltimore in the Edmunds trade was the 3rd they got from Cleveland for Tyrod Taylor.  The Edmunds trade has nothing to do with the Darby trade. The Philly pick was used to draft Harrison Phillips.  

[BADOLBILZ]

15 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

 

Pretty simple: the team went from having a WR that could threaten defenses at every level to having zero WRs that any D.C. even paid mind.

 

And they did it of their own volition when they had the player's rights for 3 more seasons uncontested.

 

 

Not picking up his option was just dumb.............all that did was de-value the player in trade.

 

For some reason people can't understand that they weren't going to be obligated to give Watkins a multi-year deal for several years.

[C.Biscuit97]

26 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

Give me a break with the everything’s awesome junk.  I said Beane made a calculated gamble on Morse and if he can’t play then Beane lost.  

 

What I will absolutely guarantee is that Beane had a helluva lot more date available to him before pulling the trigger than any blowhard on a message board.

You don’t think the problem with that?  That people on a message board know about his concussion history and yet we made him the highest paid C in the nfl?  It was always a hugely risky signing.  Fingers crossed it works out but if it doesn’t, they should be ripped. 

[PromoTheRobot]

6 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

You don’t think the problem with that?  That people on a message board know about his concussion history and yet we made him the highest paid C in the nfl?  It was always a hugely risky signing.  Fingers crossed it works out but if it doesn’t, they should be ripped. 

 

I don't recall anyone bringing up his concussion history when we were pursuing him.