What do you think of Millennials?

[Hapless Bills Fan]

23 hours ago, ExiledInIllinois said:

My daughter is having a hell of a time @ 17.  Nobody wants to take risk unless she is 18.

That's NOT a parent issue.

I am talking normal jobs, corporate, retail, etc...

 

FWIW, my daughter was able to get a job as a busser at a high-end restaurant.  The owner/chef is Sicilian, and while he treated the employees well (fed them dinner, they could take leftovers home, customers better behave or Frank would give 'em a talkin' to) he also worked them hard.  The bussers were expected to fill the ice bins for the bartender, and at the end of the day vacuum the restaurant, clean the bussing station, mop the bussing station and bar floor, and take out the trash.  He hired her without experience based on her presentation (how she came across, as someone reliable, level-headed, pleasant, and willing to work)

It did her a lot of good.  She enjoyed getting paid, but she also met servers and managers who had been working there for 20-30 years.  She got the message that if she didn't want to be working at that same job for 30 years, she better "stay in her books" in HS and college.

[unbillievable]

4 minutes ago, SoTier said:

 

You sound like the stereotypical reactionary Boomer lamenting that the best time in your life happened before you turned 35 and that everything that's changed/happened since is for the worse.   Get off your entitled arse and stop whining about people -- especially younger people --  who aren't as narrow-minded, bigoted and tone-deaf as you are.  Your reactionary BS gives all Boomers a bad name.

 

 

I agree.  I'm an early Boomer born in 1950, and frankly, the complaints I hear from many other people in my age cohort in regards to younger people, whether they're Gen X, Millenials, or Gen Z are embarrassing.  Not all Boomers are embittered old reactionaries but a lot of them are, probably because like Unbillievable they're stuck in the past because they remember "the good ol' days" like old photographs from the words of Paul Simon's "Kodachrome"  ...

    "They give us those nice bright colors
    They give us the greens of summers
    Makes you think all the world's a sunny day "

 

Times change, and nothing anybody does can stop it.  Any organism with the life-span longer than that of a fruit fly is likely going to have to figure out how to live in an altered world or suffer for it, and turning the clock back to some mythical better time in the past isn't an option. 

 

Your first mistake was assuming I'm a boomer.

 

 

 

[ExiledInIllinois]

34 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

FWIW, my daughter was able to get a job as a busser at a high-end restaurant.  The owner/chef is Sicilian, and while he treated the employees well (fed them dinner, they could take leftovers home, customers better behave or Frank would give 'em a talkin' to) he also worked them hard.  The bussers were expected to fill the ice bins for the bartender, and at the end of the day vacuum the restaurant, clean the bussing station, mop the bussing station and bar floor, and take out the trash.  He hired her without experience based on her presentation (how she came across, as someone reliable, level-headed, pleasant, and willing to work)

It did her a lot of good.  She enjoyed getting paid, but she also met servers and managers who had been working there for 20-30 years.  She got the message that if she didn't want to be working at that same job for 30 years, she better "stay in her books" in HS and college.

But people should be working at the same job for 20-30 years... As long as you it's your vocation.

 

That's the problem with these kids.  They are taught that there is always something better... Bigger, brighter, better that suits their "dream" NOT what their calling/vocation may truly be.

 

Of course... Stick them in a "lowly, grinding job" with jaded people, they won't find it too "glamous" and always want something better.  It's "too lowly" to work in a restaurant setting mentality... I gotta always find something better and more prestigious mentality where others work with their body.  "I am too smart, need to work with my mind... The other saps should labor" type thinking.

 

That's the problem with the younger generation, since college preparatory was pushed instead of the trades, starting in the 1970s... Everybody thinks they are better than the next... Well the world needs ditch diggers too:

 

 

Edited July 31, 2019 by ExiledInIllinois

[row_33]

3 minutes ago, ExiledInIllinois said:

But people should be working at the same job for 20-30 years... As long as you it's your vocation.

 

That's the problem with these kids.  They are taught that there is always something better... Bigger, brighter, better that suits their "dream" NOT what their calling/vocation may truly be.

 

Of course... Stick them in a "lowly, grinding job" with jaded people, they won't find it too "glamous" and always want something better.  It's "too lowly" to work in a restaurant setting mentality... I gotta always find something better and more prestigious mentality where others work with their body.  "I am too smart, need to work with my mind... The other saps should labor" type thinking.

 

That's the problem with the younger generation, since college preparatory was pushed instead of the trades, starting in the 1970s... Everybody thinks they are better than the next... Well the world needs ditch diggers too:

 

 

 

Sitting with people and because you feel slightly bored, diving into your iPhone and ignoring everyone, is the height of rudeness 

[GoBills808]

2 minutes ago, row_33 said:

 

Sitting with people and because you feel slightly bored, diving into your iPhone and ignoring everyone, is the height of rudeness 

 

Right...everyone was so much more polite back in the day

 

[SoTier]

42 minutes ago, HeHateMe said:

 

Boomers had a way easier time with long term growth employment... able to pay for college on part time jobs too.  Tuition has skyrocketed and the value of a college degree has never been less.   

 

Our current, mostly all boomer politicians are worthless.  The younger generations are going to have to try and fix what they completely broke.    

 

When I was in college, my undergrad tuition was $200/semester at Buff State, room and board about $600, books $50, fees another $50 or so ... and the federal minimum wage was $1.60/hour.

 

29 minutes ago, AllensBigBalls said:

 

The biggest misconception in today's society is the need for a 4 year degree from a $20k/year university.  This myth is perpetuated by academia as well as clueless parents steering their children down a path of debt. Academia + poor parenting + single mothers turning their children against their fathers is what's making life harder than necessary for millenials, especially young men. Also, trade schools being stigmatized is not helping either.  Much of the long term growth employment you speak of did not require a 4 year degree.

 

This is nonsense perpetuated by the same people who claim that the way to improve the world is to give more to the rich by taking from the poor and who think that women need to be returned to a state of dependency upon their husbands "for the sake of the children".   Maybe you think that re-instituting chattel slavery or imprisonment for debt would be good ways to fix whatever is wrong, too.   

 

 Trade schools have rightly been "stigmatized" because too many of them conned naive students into taking out student loans in order to pay for substandard or totally useless "training" when those same students could have obtained better training in the same fields for thousands of dollars less if they had simply gone to a local community college.

 

It's likely that most of this year's HS grads will be working in industries/jobs that don't exist -- or barely exist -- today.  Most of those new jobs -- and probably all jobs -- will require people to think about what they're doing beyond remembering they had to do A first, B second, C third.  The days of the people being paid decent wages for mundane, repetitive work are ending, but you can continue to pretend differently if you enjoy self delusion.

 

 

 

[AllenLongBall]

5 minutes ago, SoTier said:

 

When I was in college, my undergrad tuition was $200/semester at Buff State, room and board about $600, books $50, fees another $50 or so ... and the federal minimum wage was $1.60/hour.

 

 

This is nonsense perpetuated by the same people who claim that the way to improve the world is to give more to the rich by taking from the poor and who think that women need to be returned to a state of dependency upon their husbands "for the sake of the children".   Maybe you think that re-instituting chattel slavery or imprisonment for debt would be good ways to fix whatever is wrong, too.   

 

 Trade schools have rightly been "stigmatized" because too many of them conned naive students into taking out student loans in order to pay for substandard or totally useless "training" when those same students could have obtained better training in the same fields for thousands of dollars less if they had simply gone to a local community college.

 

It's likely that most of this year's HS grads will be working in industries/jobs that don't exist -- or barely exist -- today.  Most of those new jobs -- and probably all jobs -- will require people to think about what they're doing beyond remembering they had to do A first, B second, C third.  The days of the people being paid decent wages for mundane, repetitive work are ending, but you can continue to pretend differently if you enjoy self delusion.

 

 

 

 

You work in academia?   lol

 

 

[SoTier]

44 minutes ago, unbillievable said:

 

Your first mistake was assuming I'm a boomer.

 

 

 

 

I didn't say you were.  I said you sounded like one.  

 

11 minutes ago, ExiledInIllinois said:

But people should be working at the same job for 20-30 years... As long as you it's your vocation.

 

That's the problem with these kids.  They are taught that there is always something better... Bigger, brighter, better that suits their "dream" NOT what their calling/vocation may truly be.

 

Of course... Stick them in a "lowly, grinding job" with jaded people, they won't find it too "glamous" and always want something better.  It's "too lowly" to work in a restaurant setting mentality... I gotta always find something better and more prestigious mentality where others work with their body.  "I am too smart, need to work with my mind... The other saps should labor" type thinking.

 

That's the problem with the younger generation, since college preparatory was pushed instead of the trades, starting in the 1970s... Everybody thinks they are better than the next... Well the world needs ditch diggers too:

 

 

 

There's no "vocation" in hauling bundles of soaked hides in a tannery or shoveling coal into an open-hearth steel furnace or riveting bolts on an assembly line.  There's only drudgery for 20 or 30 years.   People took those jobs because they didn't have better opportunities, especially the sons of farm laborers and coal miners.

[unbillievable]

13 minutes ago, SoTier said:

I didn't say you were.  I said you sounded like one. 

 

So your argument is that boomers are bad because they sound like the generation they're complaining about...

 

 

[SoTier]

Just now, unbillievable said:

 

So your argument is that boomers are bad because they sound like the generation they're complaining about...

 

 

No.  My argument is that embittered reactionaries who dump on younger -- or older -- generations for feeling "entitled" don't recognize their own sense of entitlement.    

[ExiledInIllinois]

28 minutes ago, SoTier said:

 

I didn't say you were.  I said you sounded like one.  

 

 

There's no "vocation" in hauling bundles of soaked hides in a tannery or shoveling coal into an open-hearth steel furnace or riveting bolts on an assembly line.  There's only drudgery for 20 or 30 years.   People took those jobs because they didn't have better opportunities, especially the sons of farm laborers and coal miners.

People took those jobs because everybody can't be a chief.  The tribe needs Indians too that actually get the physical work done. 

 

The masses need jobs too.  Ones (jobs) that could support a family and possibly move the children of that family up the social ladder is so desired.

 

Why create a low paid underclass?  So guys like @Gugny can manage them whilst shopping @ Walmart for the lowest possible prices.  Is that "living better?"

[Gugny]

4 minutes ago, ExiledInIllinois said:

Why create a low paid underclass?  So guys like @Gugny can manage them whilst shopping @ Walmart for the lowest possible prices.  Is that "living better?"

 

I will not be shamed for being responsible with the money that I earn.  I'm where I am today because I worked hard and only because I worked hard.  I was willing to start from the bottom, be patient, work hard and move up the ladder.  Every single one of my coworkers had the same opportunity. 

[ExiledInIllinois]

1 minute ago, Gugny said:

 

I will not be shamed for being responsible with the money that I earn.  I'm where I am today because I worked hard and only because I worked hard.  I was willing to start from the bottom, be patient, work hard and move up the ladder.  Every single one of my coworkers had the same opportunity. 

Not trying to a shame.  Just trying to highlight different approaches as in race to bottom, zero-sum games.

 

Everybody can't lead.  So yes, they all have the same opportunity, but few will win.  More are destined to lose.

[unbillievable]

 

1 hour ago, SoTier said:

No.  My argument is that embittered reactionaries who dump on younger -- or older -- generations for feeling "entitled" don't recognize their own sense of entitlement.    

You do realize you're talking about yourself, right? 

[ExiledInIllinois]

12 minutes ago, unbillievable said:

 

You do realize you're talking about yourself, right? 

^^^^ The " Rubber & Glue" defense. ^^^^

 

I betcha you're hoping it sticks and doesn't bounce off.

 

 

[unbillievable]

1 minute ago, ExiledInIllinois said:

^^^^ The " Rubber & Glue" defense. ^^^^

 

I betcha you're hoping it sticks and doesn't bounce off.

I thought it was rather insightful.

Just read the guy's posts. There's a lot of self-hate there.

 

[ExiledInIllinois]

Just now, unbillievable said:

I thought it was rather insightful.

Just read the guy's posts. There's a lot of self-hate there.

 

I will go back & read, LoL... Must have been flying under my radar!  ?

[SoTier]

36 minutes ago, ExiledInIllinois said:

People took those jobs because everybody can't be a chief.  The tribe needs Indians too that actually get the physical work done. 

 

The masses need jobs too.  Ones (jobs) that could support a family and possibly move the children of that family up the social ladder is so desired.

 

Why create a low paid underclass?  So guys like @Gugny can manage them whilst shopping @ Walmart for the lowest possible prices.  Is that "living better?"

 

The American dream has ALWAYS been to move the children up the financial ladder.  The only people who didn't come to the US with that in mind were the 4 million or so Africans who were brought to this country as slaves.  The problem is that the economy is changing and becoming more dependent upon intellectual ability and far less on physical ability, and we Americans stubbornly resist accepting that.   I'm not saying that this is right or good or desirable but it is what is -- and will be more so in the future. 

 

BTW, who digs ditches by hand these days?  There are big backhoes for big jobs and there are mini-backhoes for tight spaces that can do the trenching job with 1-3 workers in a few hours that would take a crew of 10 or so a few days to dig.  

[ExiledInIllinois]

2 minutes ago, SoTier said:

 

The American dream has ALWAYS been to move the children up the financial ladder.  The only people who didn't come to the US with that in mind were the 4 million or so Africans who were brought to this country as slaves.  The problem is that the economy is changing and becoming more dependent upon intellectual ability and far less on physical ability, and we Americans stubbornly resist accepting that.   I'm not saying that this is right or good or desirable but it is what is -- and will be more so in the future. 

 

BTW, who digs ditches by hand these days?  There are big backhoes for big jobs and there are mini-backhoes for tight spaces that can do the trenching job with 1-3 workers in a few hours that would take a crew of 10 or so a few days to dig.  

Automation (even in ditch digging) is still displacing people.

 

What do we do?  Less jobs more people.  What balances the labor-automation equation?  UBI?

 

 

[SoTier]

32 minutes ago, unbillievable said:

 

You do realize you're talking about yourself, right? 

 

I'm not dumping on you --- unless you hold the reactionary views you spouted in your original post on this topic, in which case, yeah, I'm dumping on you.