There is absolutely no way that

[Typical TBD Guy]

Unless your all american indians, I wonder if there were people like these waiting for your forefathers when they arrived?

295250[/snapback]

 

So if thousands of illegal immigrants were arriving in Canada daily, plus you had recently had a 9/11-like attack within your borders, are you telling me that you would not complain like we are?

 

F'ing Canadian. Go buy yourself a clue. Or better yet, some expedient health care. Or even better, an army that could actually defend its own borders without outside (i.e., US) help.

 

P.S. Your French Canadian forefathers didn't exactly treat Native Americans with the utmost respect, either.

 

P.S.P.S. Canada sucks.

[philburger1]

Its the same thing as when people complain about outsourcing. Business is about making money. If Company X can pay someone in india $1,900 a year to answer a phone, vs $30,000 here, they would almost be dumb not to outsource.

 

Tell some 18 year old american kid to mow a lawn in the 90+ degree heat for 8 hours a day for about $40 and he'd laugh at you. Mexicans wait in line for those jobs.

295262[/snapback]

 

Bull.

I am sure there are dozens of Third World countries that would love to work out a LEGAL way to get boatloads of their people here to work.

You act like non-skill, menial labor is such a tough commodity to fill.

The only thing that keeps millions from other countries from trying to sneak in is the ocean.

Work out an orderly, supervised program with some of those countries, and you have your cheap lettuce pickers.

 

And is isn't just farm jobs we are talking about by the way.

 

Been thru a McDonalds drive-thru lately?

And I thought they screwed up the orders before when they had English speaking teenagers working there....

[BEAST MODE BABY!]

First of all, the people who try to link being against illegal immigration to Confederate rednecks are as intellectually mature as people who say David Duke represents a majority of Republicans. Give me a break.

 

I don't know how many of you live in border states, but it is a big problem. I grew up in Rochester, but now live in Los Angeles. They are closing hospitals left and right here in SoCal. Why? Because illegals frequent these hospitals, and the hospitals are not reimbursed by the Feds for the medical expenses (oh I see, don't enforce the border, but don't support the problem you're helping to create) so they're hemorrhaging money. And hospitals are closing. Right now it's rural and regional hospitals, but eventually it will start affecting areas more urban. Mind you, this is just one of the problems. The literacy rate in LA hovers around 50%, and the blame doesn't lie with our mediocre education system.

 

Do you know what the third largest industry in Mexico is? Money sent back from the states, so don't tell me we receive this huge economic windfall from illegal workers. If you look at many studies, the net gain is a huge minus. Go look it up, the information is out there.

 

Trying to say that anti-illegal immigration stances are the province of xenophobes and bigots is a crude attempt at forcing the issue into a closet. Well, things are only going to get worse, and eventually even members of the pro-illegal ostrich brigade will have to deal with this very real problem.

[philburger1]

Unless your all american indians, I wonder if there were people like these waiting for your forefathers when they arrived?

295250[/snapback]

 

Then why doesn't Mexico invade Spain instead? If we are living in the "250 plus years in the past world".

 

After all, how did Spanish become their official language? Isn't that a country in Europe?

[philburger1]

First of all, the people who try to link being against illegal immigration to Confederate rednecks are as intellectually mature as people who say David Duke represents a majority of Republicans. Give me a break.

 

I don't know how many of you live in border states, but it is a big problem. I grew up in Rochester, but now live in Los Angeles. They are closing hospitals left and right here in SoCal. Why? Because illegals frequent these hospitals, and the hospitals are not reimbursed by the Feds for the medical expenses (oh I see, don't enforce the border, but don't support the problem you're helping to create) so they're hemorrhaging money. And hospitals are closing. Right now it's rural and regional hospitals, but eventually it will start affecting areas more urban. Mind you, this is just one of the problems. The literacy rate in LA hovers around 50%, and the blame doesn't lie with our mediocre education system.

 

Do you know what the third largest industry in Mexico is? Money sent back from the states, so don't tell me we receive this huge economic windfall from illegal workers. If you look at many studies, the net gain is a huge minus. Go look it up, the information is out there.

 

Trying to say that anti-illegal immigration stances are the province of xenophobes and bigots is a crude attempt at forcing the issue into a closet. Well, things are only going to get worse, and eventually even members of the pro-illegal ostrich brigade will have to deal with this very real problem.

295369[/snapback]

 

Well said! CLAP! CLAP!

 

You can also talk about the problems created in the school systems.

Know any teachers?

Ask them how time, money, and resources are taken away from children of legal citizens.

Plus, to fund the schools, counties raise properity taxes.

The illegals aren't paying any taxes into that system.

Over-burden the system any one?

[Pac_Man]

I dunno that they contribute nothing. They make it so a head of lettuce is about a buck, instead of $5.

295218[/snapback]

I hear this a lot, and it's wrong. I remember back before this country was flooded with illegal aliens, and guess what? Produce, milk, etc. were cheaper then than they are now.

[Dr. Fong]

I hear this a lot, and it's wrong. I remember back before this country was flooded with illegal aliens, and guess what? Produce, milk, etc. were cheaper then than they are now.

295382[/snapback]

 

Yeah they can just stay home and we'll buy it from them there. Shipping doesn't cost THAT much.

[GG]

It's amazing to hear people regurgitate the same tired lies. 

 

Illegal immigration is a terrible problem in this country and its not the lettuce pickers and landscapers who sneak across that we really need to worry about.  It's the thugs and terrorists and the politicians who continue to turn a blind eye to same.

295302[/snapback]

 

Give that man an apple (yet again).

 

Maybe now people can look at the legit rationale for Bush's proposal to loosen temporary worker visas for Mexicans. Because most of the Mexicans just want a better paying job here, by having a system where the migrant workers are actually logged in, you can actually deploy resources to catching the illegals who want to blow things up.

 

(We now return you back to the wild discussion)

[Pac_Man]

Give that man an apple (yet again). 

 

Maybe now people can look at the legit rationale for Bush's proposal to loosen temporary worker visas for Mexicans.  Because most of the Mexicans just want a better paying job here, by having a system where the migrant workers are actually logged in, you can actually deploy resources to catching the illegals who want to blow things up.

 

(We now return you back to the wild discussion)

295466[/snapback]

The problem with Bush's slave labor plan is that it's basically having the U.S. import people while exporting jobs. The net effect is a direct assault on the American worker; especially the unskilled American worker. It became clear in the presidential debates that BOTH candidates had sold out to corporate interests on the immigration issue.

[KRC]

The problem with Bush's slave labor plan is that it's basically having the U.S. import people while exporting jobs. The net effect is a direct assault on the American worker; especially the unskilled American worker. It became clear in the presidential debates that BOTH candidates had sold out to corporate interests on the immigration issue.

295526[/snapback]

 

Not just corporate interests, but votes in general. There is an entire voting segment which they could pander to with this stuff.

[Bill from NYC]

American Indians got their asses kicked in a straight up fight. The Europeans didn't sneak in and try to get on Indian Welfare. If the Mexicans want to try and cross the border with tanks and guns and give it a shot, more power to 'em.

295252[/snapback]

 

 

OK, that was a great post.

[Bill from NYC]

The problem with Bush's slave labor plan is that it's basically having the U.S. import people while exporting jobs. The net effect is a direct assault on the American worker; especially the unskilled American worker. It became clear in the presidential debates that BOTH candidates had sold out to corporate interests on the immigration issue.

295526[/snapback]

 

OK, that too was a great post!

[GG]

The problem with Bush's slave labor plan is that it's basically having the U.S. import people while exporting jobs. The net effect is a direct assault on the American worker; especially the unskilled American worker. It became clear in the presidential debates that BOTH candidates had sold out to corporate interests on the immigration issue.

295526[/snapback]

 

And if you look at the history of the US, you will note that unskilled workers have always been under assault by the next wave of immigration. What's allowed this country to become great is the ability of the waves of unskilled immigrants to churn out the next generation of skilled Americans that kick butt out of their former countries.

 

This is a parallel to outsourcing. If you focus your economic policies to protect unskilled labor at the cost of skilled labor, there won't be any reason to worry about border protection with Mexico.

[Pac_Man]

And if you look at the history of the US, you will note that unskilled workers have always been under assault by the next wave of immigration.  What's allowed this country to become great is the ability of the waves of unskilled immigrants to churn out the next generation of skilled Americans that kick butt out of their former countries.

 

This is a parallel to outsourcing.  If you focus your economic policies to protect unskilled labor at the cost of skilled labor, there won't be any reason to worry about border protection with Mexico.

295568[/snapback]

There are three differences between then and now. The first is that in the past, this country was empty, and needed people. The second is that many of today's immigrants are coming to take advantage of the system (social services, etc.) rather than to make a contribution. The third is that many of today's immigrants have no interest in becoming Americans, or learning about American culture.

[GG]

There are three differences between then and now. The first is that in the past, this country was empty, and needed people. The second is that many of today's immigrants are coming to take advantage of the system (social services, etc.) rather than to make a contribution. The third is that many of today's immigrants have no interest in becoming Americans, or learning about American culture.

295582[/snapback]

 

Care to back this opinion with facts, or just rely on anti-immigrant paranoia rhetoric?

 

Do you honestly believe that Mexican fathers leave their families behind, pack themselves into windowless vans along with 20 other guys to cross a border to get better medical care? Do the Chinese pay $50,000 to come here to get a shot at $500/mo SSI benefits?

 

Care to contrast the current situation with the Draft Riots of the 1850's?

[Pac_Man]

Care to back this opinion with facts, or just rely on anti-immigrant paranoia rhetoric? 

 

Do you honestly believe that Mexican fathers leave their families behind, pack themselves into windowless vans along with 20 other guys to cross a border to get better medical care?  Do the Chinese pay $50,000 to come here to get a shot at $500/mo SSI benefits? 

 

Care to contrast the current situation with the Draft Riots of the 1850's?

295598[/snapback]

Well, if you want facts, I could point out that the U.S. offers generous social services; whereas in the past it did not. Did it ever occur to you that offering social services to people who don't work might attract people who, ahem, don't want to work? Oh, sorry, I guess in your world that's just paranoid propaganda.

 

If you want a quantitative look on the costs immigration is imposing on our nation, go here: http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/fiscalexec.html

 

If you want to learn more about immigration's human cost, go here: http://www.immigrationshumancost.org/

 

For a look at the impact illegals have on the American worker, go here:

 

http://www.carryingcapacity.org/100000.html

[Pac_Man]

Care to back this opinion with facts, or just rely on anti-immigrant paranoia rhetoric? 

 

Do you honestly believe that Mexican fathers leave their families behind, pack themselves into windowless vans along with 20 other guys to cross a border to get better medical care?  Do the Chinese pay $50,000 to come here to get a shot at $500/mo SSI benefits? 

 

Care to contrast the current situation with the Draft Riots of the 1850's?

295598[/snapback]

It occurred to me that your example of some Chinese guy paying $50K to come here is a very poor one. The usual excuse for allowing this country to be invaded is that we need immigrants to work for $5.50 an hour to do manual labor. Do you think that some guy from China is going to pay $50K to have the opportunity to do that? Wouldn't he be better off just staying in China and continuing to do whatever it is he did to get the $50K in the first place?

[erynthered]

 

Tell some 18 year old american kid to mow a lawn in the 90+ degree heat for 8 hours a day for about $40 and he'd laugh at you. Mexicans wait in line for those jobs.

295262[/snapback]

 

 

Are you a Mexican? Thats a pretty blanket statement. Please tell me how you think this is so true accross the board?

[Pac_Man]

Are you a Mexican? Thats a pretty blanket statement. Please tell me how you think this is so true accross the board?

295676[/snapback]

Good point, erynthred. It's also a blanket statement on the other side too: I know Americans who are happy to make $6 an hour for hard work. Saying that all Americans are too lazy/spoiled/whatever to work those jobs just isn't right.

[TheMadCap]

I wonder why the US government has not made it clear to Mexico that THEY should be the ones stopping their citizens from crossing the border. Hell, maybe we should invade Mexico and set up a democracy there....