J. Palmer on Allen ‘blue collar, work ethic, farmer’

[teef]

10 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

There is. But how can fan criticism be "constructive"? The team aren't reading it. 

 

There is a cohort on this board intolerant of anything negative whether reasoned or otherwise. 

This is completely untrue.   If you take a second and actually observe what’s going on, you’d find it’s the same 8 to 10 posters that consistently are given a hard time by other posters.  If you think that’s strictly because of their opinion, you’re choosing to ignore who they are. 

[NoHuddleKelly12]

30 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

There is. But how can fan criticism be "constructive"? The team aren't reading it. 

 

There is a cohort on this board intolerant of anything negative whether reasoned or otherwise. 

It's usually not reasoned, that's the crux of the problem, imho. 

 

 

However, when called for, such as during the doldrums of the early-mid 2018 season, many of us in the "sunnyside up" camp were giving it both barrels on this board, and rightfully so at the time. Nothing would've made me happier than to see most of the coordinators/coaching staff fired by weeks 4 or 5, and now in hindsight, that was premature. But regardless, my point is, I think it's a mistake to say those who are consistently negative face "intolerance" regardless of their reasoning; it's more of a push back where no credible evidence supporting a particular negative position is offered to go along with the hot take. But I may be mistaken I suppose, wouldn't be the first time.   

[DaBillsFanSince1973]

59 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

There is. But how can fan criticism be "constructive"? The team aren't reading it. 

 

There is a cohort on this board intolerant of anything negative whether reasoned or otherwise. 

disagree.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

On 7/24/2019 at 4:56 AM, Boca BIlls said:

Dear God man... Stop with this crap. Two different scenarios, one is Matt and then later Beasley is talking about a route where the ball is supposed to be on him the second he turns around. I hate when people troll for controversy.

 

Yes just watched it again and you basically made this whole BS up. Good job.

 

Which episode and about where was it?
Edit: I found it, Episode 4 at 12:40.  I can't tell what Beasley is saying to confirm or to refute the OP contention, but it certainly isn't clear.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

There is. But how can fan criticism be "constructive"? The team aren't reading it. 

There is a cohort on this board intolerant of anything negative whether reasoned or otherwise. 

 

Well, maybe my opinion doesn't count 'cuz Mod, but I've been a board member (decade) way longer than a mod (year).  So take it for what it's worth: I see it as largely "find what you bring".  Posters who have criticism or negative takes that are supported by some reasoning or backed up by analysis don't tend to raise many hackles.  People may disagree, but it's generally civil and sometimes spirited.

It's folks who just harp on the same thing over and over again - and maybe they're tired of giving their reasons 'cuz they did it in 3 other threads, but still now people see 6, 7, 9, 12, threads where they're just hawking the same negativity, it tends to wear on folks nerves.  That's why campaigning and crusading are against the TOS.  So if you're so tired of explaining your reasons that you've descended to snark and spitting out one liners, time to give it a rest (not directed at you, GunnerBill, just general observation)

On the other hand we do go in cycles.  There was a time when it was fashionable here to totally dis the Bills or trash certain players and anyone who tried to be reasoned and moderate (seeing both good and bad) would "catch it".

[Hapless Bills Fan]

On 7/24/2019 at 11:47 AM, MacGyver said:

 

Talent Trumps lunch pail work ethic every time.

 

Horseradish.  In almost every field.  Yes you need sufficient talent.  But why do you think undrafteds and late round draft picks succeed in the league every year while high round picks, scouted as high round picks because of their talent, wash out? 

 

That would be because, given sufficient talent, a hardworking person who dedicates themselves wholeheartedly to their craft will accomplish more than an uber-talented slacker.  The athletic talent differential isn't that large and the game is more complex in the NFL.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

1 minute ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Horseradish.  In almost every field.  Yes you need sufficient talent.  But why do you think undrafteds and late round draft picks succeed in the league every year while high round picks, scouted as high round picks because of their talent, wash out? 

 

That would be because, given sufficient talent, a hardworking person who dedicates themselves wholeheartedly to their craft will accomplish more than an uber-talented slacker.  The athletic talent differential isn't that large and the game is more complex in the NFL.

 

This guy gets it.

 

[GunnerBill]

2 hours ago, teef said:

This is completely untrue.   If you take a second and actually observe what’s going on, you’d find it’s the same 8 to 10 posters that consistently are given a hard time by other posters.  If you think that’s strictly because of their opinion, you’re choosing to ignore who they are. 

 

I am choosing to ignore who they are. Yes. I only ever take each post on its merits. Because what happens is people go "oh this is ScottLaw and he is being negative" and then they stop reading the reasons he gives. He rarely posts negative takes without giving some justification. You might not like his justification, or even agree with it, but to pretend he just fires off negativity with no reason is wrong. Now there are 2 or 3 that do. But they aren't what I consider serious contributors to the board. They are the sort of here today, gone tomorrow, nonsense that every message board has.

 

EDIT: but Bills fans on this board as a whole definitely get prickly very, very quickly over anything they perceive as negative. Much more so than fans of other teams I follow in other sports. Every board is going to have some glass half fullers and some glass half emptiers but the glass half empty crowd here definitely catch more heat than elsewhere. And it is no more righteous to be a positive outlook person than a negative outlook person. 

 

EDIT2: and frankly it is frustrating when numerous threads descend into that tit for tat. This thread started as being about Josh Allen's work ethic and then descended into people being attacked for being negative. It ruins the debate. 

Edited July 25, 2019 by GunnerBill

[Gugny]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I am choosing to ignore who they are. Yes. I only ever take each post on its merits. Because what happens is people go "oh this is ScottLaw and he is being negative" and then they stop reading the reasons he gives. He rarely posts negative takes without giving some justification. You might not like his justification, or even agree with it, but to pretend he just fires off negativity with no reason is wrong. Now there are 2 or 3 that do. But they aren't what I consider serious contributors to the board. They are the sort of here today, gone tomorrow, nonsense that every message board has.

 

EDIT: but Bills fans on this board as a whole definitely get prickly very, very quickly over anything they perceive as negative. Much more so than fans of other teams I follow in other sports. Every board is going to have some glass half fullers and some glass half emptiers but the glass half empty crowd here definitely catch more heat than elsewhere. And it is no more righteous to be a positive outlook person than a negative outlook person. 

 

EDIT2: and frankly it is frustrating when numerous threads descend into that tit for tat. This thread started as being about Josh Allen's work ethic and then descended into people being attacked for being negative. It ruins the debate. 

 

I know you're talking about me and that is against the Terms of Service.  Hence, thus, accordingly and consequently, you've been reported.  Twice.

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, Gugny said:

 

I know you're talking about me and that is against the Terms of Service.  Hence, thus, accordingly and consequently, you've been reported.  Twice.

 

There is a loophole for cyber bullying of you Gug. I had SDS insert it for the last rule refresh. 

[Chandler#81]

4 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

There is a loophole for cyber bullying of you Gug. I had SDS insert it for the last rule refresh. 

 

I’m still gonna drop the hammer on you! ?

[Hapless Bills Fan]

On 7/24/2019 at 11:08 AM, Jrb1979 said:

You guys have to get over the Blue collar lunch pail garbage. Its not the Rockpile days anymore. I realize a lot of you are fans from those days but teams now aren't built that way anymore. Its 2019 not 1960. 

 

Well now here's a paradox.  "Teams aren't built that way anymore" and yet....character, work hard, prepare hard, "blue collar" - are all attributes the current coach and GM appear to be stressing.  That theme appears in various Bills media stuff and pressers for a reason.

So either 1) they really don't know how to build a team 2) it's all PR and when the cameras and reporters leave Beane is all "screw character, get me the most talented players"
3) you're mistaken

I'm hoping for 3)

[Hapless Bills Fan]

On 7/24/2019 at 11:59 AM, Elite Poster said:

Character and work ethic are two different things. Talent and work ethic are really all you need, everything else is just to make you feel good. 

 

I would say you need character to have a work ethic, but I'm willing to be educated as to the distinction and why the latter is needed while the former isn't

 

On 7/24/2019 at 12:19 PM, MacGyver said:

He was/is an unintelligent pothead, that's why he wasted his talent.  He didn't need to be a Ryan Denny with is level of talent, just had to not be an idiot, in which he failed.

 

To me, you're illustrating the point - Dareus had all the talent in the world, and not enough character to consistently put in the work once he got paid. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

4 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

I've said for a while now(and it's really an obvious statement) but this year will go how Josh Allen goes. I've also said I really liked a lot of what he did the last 6 games of the season. It was night and day from before he got injured. 

 

My concern is the help(or lack of) at the WR position provided for him. I think it's an average AT BEST group and I think they needed to do more to help out their 2nd year QB, but maybe I'm wrong and maybe Josh steps up and gets the best out of them. I'd be the first to admit it if I am.

 

I agree that WR is an average group lacking standout talent.  The unknown will be if John Brown stays healthy and reprises his promising 2nd season.

I think it must be considered that Daboll is definitely cast in the NE mold and philosophy on offense.  What that means to me is:

1) he believes in "next man up" and spreading receptions around not having a #1 superstar

2) his focus is on scheming guys open, meaning he thinks  he doesn't need that AJ Green/Julio Jones/Antonio Brown/Amari Cooper level guy

Whether or not this will work, really depends upon how good Josh Allen becomes at diagnosing the D pre snap and exploiting the mismatches Daboll schemes for.

[K-9]

13 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I would say you need character to have a work ethic, but I'm willing to be educated as to the distinction and why the latter is needed while the former isn't

 

 

To me, you're illustrating the point - Dareus had all the talent in the world, and not enough character to consistently put in the work once he got paid. 

 

Spot on. We are talking “football” character, not choir boy character. The first element of football character is an unyielding work ethic. It’s that simple.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

On 7/24/2019 at 3:44 AM, The Bills Blog said:

I'm concerned about Allen's anticipation. In Embedded, you see Beasley telling him to throw with anticipation, and Allen protests, saying he'll put it on Beasley as soon as he turns (in other words, "My arm is so strong I don't have to worry about anticipation"). Not a great sign.

 

At the segment I think you mean (Episode 4, 12:40) it's not clear at all what Beasley is saying.  But it's clear from what Allen says in the narration that Beasley is talking to him all the time about his craft and he says "it's good".

[ColoradoBills]

4 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

There is. But how can fan criticism be "constructive"? The team aren't reading it. 

 

There is a cohort on this board intolerant of anything negative whether reasoned or otherwise. 

 

No one knows what this year will bring, neither the dreamers or the doomsayer's.

 

That being said, there is a cohort on this board intolerant of anything positive whether reasoned or otherwise too.

 

People post comments in line to who they are.  It seems to me it takes all kinds to make a fan base.

[MacGyver]

9 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I would say you need character to have a work ethic, but I'm willing to be educated as to the distinction and why the latter is needed while the former isn't

 

 

To me, you're illustrating the point - Dareus had all the talent in the world, and not enough character to consistently put in the work once he got paid. 

 

Hmm, character and work ethic are not the same, they can go hand in hand but not always.  Some people work hard but have vices/addictions.

Edited July 26, 2019 by MacGyver

[GunnerBill]

14 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Yeah, he started off saying "Darnold is going to be EXCITING.  Mayfield is going to be EXCITING.  Allen is INTRIGUING"

So I think if you listened carefully, it's balanced because he's like "Darnold is there, Mayfield is there, Allen ...it will be "intriguing" to see if he's there"

At least that's how I took it.

 

Yea as I said earlier that was pretty much how I took it. I thought he was basically saying "Allen's floor is still lower than those other two.... they are certain to be good.... but Allen's ceiling might even be higher and that is what makes him intruging." That was my reading of it.  

[teef]

14 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I am choosing to ignore who they are. Yes. I only ever take each post on its merits. Because what happens is people go "oh this is ScottLaw and he is being negative" and then they stop reading the reasons he gives. He rarely posts negative takes without giving some justification. You might not like his justification, or even agree with it, but to pretend he just fires off negativity with no reason is wrong. Now there are 2 or 3 that do. But they aren't what I consider serious contributors to the board. They are the sort of here today, gone tomorrow, nonsense that every message board has.

 

EDIT: but Bills fans on this board as a whole definitely get prickly very, very quickly over anything they perceive as negative. Much more so than fans of other teams I follow in other sports. Every board is going to have some glass half fullers and some glass half emptiers but the glass half empty crowd here definitely catch more heat than elsewhere. And it is no more righteous to be a positive outlook person than a negative outlook person. 

 

EDIT2: and frankly it is frustrating when numerous threads descend into that tit for tat. This thread started as being about Josh Allen's work ethic and then descended into people being attacked for being negative. It ruins the debate. 

For the record, I don’t include Scott in the group that I was referring to before. I don’t want to be in a world that doesn’t Scott to be Scott.