Rc2catch Posted July 25, 2019 Posted July 25, 2019 11 hours ago, BuffaloBill said: Yes, everyone is stuck on the Mahomes pick that could have been. There was no consensus on the guy in the draft. He has had one good season. Let’s see how time evaluates him. Dark Prescott looked pretty good and then has settled into an above average QB. Mahomes is not immune to this. It was a magical season mahomes just had. I’d like to add Andy Reid is an offensive scheme genius as well. Mahomes had an entire year to sit and learn. Then stepped into an already elite offense with possibly the best set of weapons in the league. And the craziest part to his magical season is almost everyone stayed healthy and played almost every game. I don’t want to discredit what he accomplished however the hype that he’s already a top quarterback has blown out of control. If buffalo drafted him, he would of been thrown to the wolves almost immediately or fans would of rioted and we probably would of seen a bit of a different quarterback and stat line. Not to mention the possibility of getting shell shocked and loss of any and all confidence. KC is an interesting team to watch this season to see if they can duplicate the success from last year. I am sure Reid has cooked up a ton of new formations and shifts. If mahomes can throw for 4000 and 40 this season I will jump on that top 5 quarterback bandwagon. I’m still a little skeptical of him though.
klos63 Posted July 25, 2019 Posted July 25, 2019 42 minutes ago, Rc2catch said: It was a magical season mahomes just had. I’d like to add Andy Reid is an offensive scheme genius as well. Mahomes had an entire year to sit and learn. Then stepped into an already elite offense with possibly the best set of weapons in the league. And the craziest part to his magical season is almost everyone stayed healthy and played almost every game. I don’t want to discredit what he accomplished however the hype that he’s already a top quarterback has blown out of control. If buffalo drafted him, he would of been thrown to the wolves almost immediately or fans would of rioted and we probably would of seen a bit of a different quarterback and stat line. Not to mention the possibility of getting shell shocked and loss of any and all confidence. KC is an interesting team to watch this season to see if they can duplicate the success from last year. I am sure Reid has cooked up a ton of new formations and shifts. If mahomes can throw for 4000 and 40 this season I will jump on that top 5 quarterback bandwagon. I’m still a little skeptical of him though. I can somewhat understand not putting him in the elite category after 1 season as starter, but I don't understand how anyone who watched him play can be 'a little skeptical of him' . Regardless of the talent around him, he made throws that most QB's couldn't make, and he did it often. 1
Rock-A-Bye Beasley Posted July 27, 2019 Posted July 27, 2019 On 7/23/2019 at 3:51 PM, Buffalo03 said: For the love of God, get over the whole Watson and Mahomes thing. We have no idea how Josh Allen is gonna turn up. We still made excellent picks in Tre'Davious and Dion Dawkins as well. The jury is still out on Zay. I believe this is his make or break season. He did have a decent 2nd season though catching 7TDs but yes, the 2017 draft is looking good So it's not reasonable to criticize a draft pick in a thread about how great said draft is? I'm "over it" but if someone brings it up I'm gonna point out the other guys would have been better. That's literally the only way to evaluate a draft, you look at who was picked compared to who wasn't. So sick of being told I'm using "hindsight" Oh yeah? well what are you using? 1
oldmanfan Posted July 27, 2019 Posted July 27, 2019 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Chemical said: So it's not reasonable to criticize a draft pick in a thread about how great said draft is? I'm "over it" but if someone brings it up I'm gonna point out the other guys would have been better. That's literally the only way to evaluate a draft, you look at who was picked compared to who wasn't. So sick of being told I'm using "hindsight" Oh yeah? well what are you using? I evaluate drafts on how good the guys that were picked played, not by whom you could have drafted. Every team in the league would be lousy drafters then because every team misses out on guys that turn into stars. Edited July 27, 2019 by oldmanfan
Rock-A-Bye Beasley Posted July 27, 2019 Posted July 27, 2019 1 minute ago, oldmanfan said: I evaluate drafts on how good the guys that were picked played, not by whom you could have drafted. Every team in the league would be lousy drafters then because every team misses out on guys that turn into stars. Obviously you would go insane if you only looked at which players ended up successful and came up with a perfect "what if?" scenario. What I'm saying is if you don't have a QB of the future and you consciously put it off, you better hope the guys you passed on aren't good or have one of the best seasons ever by any QB immediately.
Buffalo03 Posted July 27, 2019 Posted July 27, 2019 (edited) 34 minutes ago, Chemical said: So it's not reasonable to criticize a draft pick in a thread about how great said draft is? I'm "over it" but if someone brings it up I'm gonna point out the other guys would have been better. That's literally the only way to evaluate a draft, you look at who was picked compared to who wasn't. So sick of being told I'm using "hindsight" Oh yeah? well what are you using? You said Milano was the only good pick in the draft. That would be incorrect. Tre'Davious is excellent, Dawkins has been good, Zay the jury is still out on and then of course Milano. Saying that Tre'Davious is a bad pick because we didn't get Mahomes or Watson is just stupid. The other thing you have to think about to is, yes Mahomes is great in an Andy Reid quarterback friendly system in which Donavan McNabb, Nick Foles, Michael Vick (Who had the best year or two of his career under Reid) and even Alex Smith have thrived in. Not saying Mahomes wouldn't have been good here but it may not have been to the level he has succeeded in in KC Edited July 27, 2019 by Buffalo03
GunnerBill Posted July 27, 2019 Posted July 27, 2019 Eventually people will have to stop using the "yea but Mahomes and Watson would have sucked in Buffalo" argument. 2
oldmanfan Posted July 27, 2019 Posted July 27, 2019 17 minutes ago, Chemical said: Obviously you would go insane if you only looked at which players ended up successful and came up with a perfect "what if?" scenario. What I'm saying is if you don't have a QB of the future and you consciously put it off, you better hope the guys you passed on aren't good or have one of the best seasons ever by any QB immediately. If it was obvious, you would not have said what you said. I wanted Watson, I think Allen will be as good as him, and anyone saying they knew before the draft that Mahomes would do what he did last year is lying.
Rock-A-Bye Beasley Posted July 27, 2019 Posted July 27, 2019 25 minutes ago, Buffalo03 said: You said Milano was the only good pick in the draft. That would be incorrect. Tre'Davious is excellent, Dawkins has been good, Zay the jury is still out on and then of course Milano. Saying that Tre'Davious is a bad pick because we didn't get Mahomes or Watson is just stupid. The other thing you have to think about to is, yes Mahomes is great in an Andy Reid quarterback friendly system in which Donavan McNabb, Nick Foles, Michael Vick (Who had the best year or two of his career under Reid) and even Alex Smith have thrived in. Not saying Mahomes wouldn't have been good here but it may not have been to the level he has succeeded in in KC Evaluating a trade based on what your team gave up vs. what your team received is part of sports. And yes, you are saying Mahomes wouldn't have been good here. That's exactly what you're implying, then you say you're not but you already said it. I can understand that rationale if he was just a good QB in his first season with around 25TDs and 3400 yards, but he had one of the best seasons of ALL TIME. That doesn't happen only because you have a good coach and skill players, you also have to be amazing, watch the tape. 29 minutes ago, oldmanfan said: If it was obvious, you would not have said what you said. I wanted Watson, I think Allen will be as good as him, and anyone saying they knew before the draft that Mahomes would do what he did last year is lying. Yes I can say that and it still be obvious. I'm pointing out the obvious and trying to convey that I'm not nitpicking every draft pick, just one of the worst trades ever.
oldmanfan Posted July 27, 2019 Posted July 27, 2019 3 minutes ago, Chemical said: Evaluating a trade based on what your team gave up vs. what your team received is part of sports. And yes, you are saying Mahomes wouldn't have been good here. That's exactly what you're implying, then you say you're not but you already said it. I can understand that rationale if he was just a good QB in his first season with around 25TDs and 3400 yards, but he had one of the best seasons of ALL TIME. That doesn't happen only because you have a good coach and skill players, you also have to be amazing, watch the tape. Yes I can say that and it still be obvious. I'm pointing out the obvious and trying to convey that I'm not nitpicking every draft pick, just one of the worst trades ever. One of the worst trades ever. Because one guy had one really good year? Andvthe other team got a great CB and position to draft another promising young QB? Right. Let the adults talk here sonny and quit overreacting.
Rock-A-Bye Beasley Posted July 27, 2019 Posted July 27, 2019 Just now, oldmanfan said: One of the worst trades ever. Because one guy had one really good year? Andvthe other team got a great CB and position to draft another promising young QB? Right. Let the adults talk here sonny and quit overreacting. Quit under-reacting. "a really good year"? it was probably top 3 all time and they should have won the superbowl if not for some terrible calls in 4th qtr and OT against them. Listen, I'm past the point of blaming anyone, but when I see threads like this it's annoying because it's so obviously delusional. 6 minutes ago, oldmanfan said: One of the worst trades ever. Because one guy had one really good year? Andvthe other team got a great CB and position to draft another promising young QB? Right. Let the adults talk here sonny and quit overreacting. Here come the personal insults. Stick to your argument, if it's strong enough it will speak for itself. 1
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted July 27, 2019 Posted July 27, 2019 1 minute ago, Chemical said: Quit under-reacting. "a really good year"? it was probably top 3 all time and they should have won the superbowl if not for some terrible calls in 4th qtr and OT against them. Listen, I'm past the point of blaming anyone, but when I see threads like this it's annoying because it's so obviously delusional. We get it. Your hindsight is better than 20/20. Congratulations. What is it you want from people? Endless self-flagellation over Mahomes? Well forget it.
Rock-A-Bye Beasley Posted July 27, 2019 Posted July 27, 2019 (edited) 1 minute ago, Joe in Winslow said: We get it. Your hindsight is better than 20/20. Congratulations. What is it you want from people? Endless self-flagellation over Mahomes? Well forget it. I didn't start this thread. What is the OP using to evaluate the players the Bills picked? Oh no! it's hingsight! Edited July 27, 2019 by Chemical
oldmanfan Posted July 27, 2019 Posted July 27, 2019 1 minute ago, Chemical said: Quit under-reacting. "a really good year"? it was probably top 3 all time and they should have won the superbowl if not for some terrible calls in 4th qtr and OT against them. Listen, I'm past the point of blaming anyone, but when I see threads like this it's annoying because it's so obviously delusional. Ok. Mahomes has a great year. Have it your way. It’s one year. One non championship year. And don’t give me the crap about bad calls to prop him up. Good for him. But there is is not one single individual on this board before the draft who knew he’d be that good last year. You say you did you’d be lying.
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted July 27, 2019 Posted July 27, 2019 Just now, Chemical said: I didn't start this thread No but you've stated your case about 92000 times in it. Again I ask, what is it you want from people?
oldmanfan Posted July 27, 2019 Posted July 27, 2019 1 minute ago, Chemical said: I didn't start this thread Your rantings do not negate the intent of the thread, that the 2017 draft was pretty good.
Rock-A-Bye Beasley Posted July 27, 2019 Posted July 27, 2019 Just now, Joe in Winslow said: No but you've stated your case about 92000 times in it. Again I ask, what is it you want from people? Stop being completely delusional/dishonest about this draft class? KC ended up with Mahomes and we got Peterman. Just a simple acceptance of the facts or just maybe not praising the draft when it was a disaster. It's hilarious how bad it ended up. QB is the most important position and we got the worst one of all time. 3 minutes ago, oldmanfan said: Your rantings do not negate the intent of the thread, that the 2017 draft was pretty good. Compared to what? How do you evaluate a draft? because I would think you have to compare the players picked to the ones not picked.
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted July 27, 2019 Posted July 27, 2019 Just now, Chemical said: Stop being completely delusional/dishonest about this draft class? KC ended up with Mahomes and we got Peterman. Just a simple acceptance of the facts or just maybe not praising the draft when it was a disaster. It's hilarious how bad it ended up. QB is the most important position and we got the worst one of all time. That draft class was objectively NOT a disaster. We have at minimum, THREE solid starters from the draft, including one of the best CB in the NFL. Yes, we didn't get Mahomes, but if you're going to tell me you saw that season coming from him coming out of college, I'm calling bull####.
Rock-A-Bye Beasley Posted July 27, 2019 Posted July 27, 2019 1 minute ago, Joe in Winslow said: That draft class was objectively NOT a disaster. We have at minimum, THREE solid starters from the draft, including one of the best CB in the NFL. Yes, we didn't get Mahomes, but if you're going to tell me you saw that season coming from him coming out of college, I'm calling bull####. It doesn't matter if I did or didn't predict it, and I've never claimed that.
oldmanfan Posted July 27, 2019 Posted July 27, 2019 2 minutes ago, Chemical said: Stop being completely delusional/dishonest about this draft class? KC ended up with Mahomes and we got Peterman. Just a simple acceptance of the facts or just maybe not praising the draft when it was a disaster. It's hilarious how bad it ended up. QB is the most important position and we got the worst one of all time. Compared to what? How do you evaluate a draft? because I would think you have to compare the players picked to the ones not picked. You see how your guys did. I can nitpick every team’s drafts and make a case they did terribly because they took one guy over another. And comparing a first round pick to a fifth with Mahomes vs. Peterman is absurd. They didn’t draft Peterman to be a franchise guy.
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