Bills 2017 Draft - It Might Be Really Good

[BillsVet]

6 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

I think a lot of posters were all for taking a QB there.... we all knew Tyrod could be upgraded from and the importance of the position. 

 

Put it this way, many posters would've been happier had they taken a QB there rather than traded down for a CB.... and that's not even the point. We are fans. We aren't in a position to make that decision and passing on a Mahomes or even a Watson for a CB warrants some criticism even with them taking Allen the next year.

 

Let's be clear.  In 2017, McDermott drafted:

 

1. A good zone CB after trading out of 10 with a major issue at QB and 2 on the board.  Nice player for sure, but isn't better than the guy he replaced in Gilmore. 

2. A WR who collects his stats when games are out of control and will compete with a UDFA to play behind two 2019 UFAs.  Not better than Robert Woods and that's not changing. 

3. A LT who took a step back in his second season. 

4. A talented Will that has ended his first 2 seasons on the IR.

 

It's not the foundational draft that some here talked about it being.  Still, drafts can artificially look good when you've got 1-2 more high round picks.  This reminds me of 2006 when people championed that draft early, but saw the careers of Whitner, McCargo, Youboty, and Ko Simpson either flat line or plateau into average.  Long term, only Kyle Williams was an impact player.  

 

The 2017 class isn't a home run - at least not yet.  If McCoach's seat starts getting warmer, the refusal to take a QB in '17 will take on a lot more focus. 

[Buffalo Barbarian]

2018 is the draft that makes this team.

 

Allen

Edmunds

Phillips

 

 

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

11 minutes ago, Bill from NYC said:

Along with a 4th rounder.

 

Between Beckham, Evans, Cooks, even Ebron - there was a lot of pass catching talent.  

At least when the falcons traded up for julio. they A. Had Ryan B. They were picking outside the top 10 and C. He was in the top 2 of a class that really fell off a cliff at 3.  

[C.Biscuit97]

33 minutes ago, dneveu said:

 

Between Beckham, Evans, Cooks, even Ebron - there was a lot of pass catching talent.  

At least when the falcons traded up for julio. they A. Had Ryan B. They were picking outside the top 10 and C. He was in the top 2 of a class that really fell off a cliff at 3.  

I wanted Evans who went before us.  But Sammy was far and away the best receiver and one of the best college receivers I have ever seen.  Matt Ryan isn’t Matt Ryan without Julio (Sammy and Julio has similar numbers after 3 years).  So it worked out for the Falcons and not us.  But they were essentially the same gamble.  

[John from Riverside]

7 hours ago, Bill from NYC said:

John, some players are decent or even "good," but they were bad draft choices. MaGahee, Whitner, and a slew of other Bills draft selections come to mind.

True.....bu when you are arguably top 3 at your position......I think you are more then 'decent"

Also....context i everything....it was a top 3 at his position....PLUS a number 1 pick

[C.Biscuit97]

39 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

True.....bu when you are arguably top 3 at your position......I think you are more then 'decent"

Also....context i everything....it was a top 3 at his position....PLUS a number 1 pick

White is very good but he didn’t even make an all pro or a pro bowl.  I think we are getting a little ahead of ourselves.  I bet the team feels the same way if they were to negotiate a contract. 

[Golden Goat]

8 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

Except our line was better than Houston's. 

Houston's o-line was 37 sacks worse than our offensive line? I disagree. At some point you have to look at the QB. Ours seemed to have a knack for avoiding sacks that Watson took. And, Allen didn't have a sure-handed (arguably the league's best) receiver to dump the ball off to, like Watson did.

[John from Riverside]

5 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

White is very good but he didn’t even make an all pro or a pro bowl.  I think we are getting a little ahead of ourselves.  I bet the team feels the same way if they were to negotiate a contract. 

There are a lot of players that get snubbed because they are not a big market team and young

 

Tre WHite IS top 3 to 5 at his position....and the numbers bear that out.

 

 

[Doc]

8 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

White is very good but he didn’t even make an all pro or a pro bowl.  I think we are getting a little ahead of ourselves.  I bet the team feels the same way if they were to negotiate a contract. 

 

Neither did Gilmore while he was in Buffalo and he played no worse than he has in Cheaterland.

[C.Biscuit97]

1 minute ago, Doc said:

 

Neither did Gilmore while he was in Buffalo and he played no worse than he has in Cheaterland.

Fair but there were many fans who didn’t think he was any good here.  

3 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

There are a lot of players that get snubbed because they are not a big market team and young

 

Tre WHite IS top 3 to 5 at his position....and the numbers bear that out.

 

 

That’s fair.  It’s so close and subjective.  Like I looked At the all pro teams and had no idea Kyle Fuller made it.  

[Doc]

2 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Fair but there were many fans who didn’t think he was any good here. 

 

I doubt you'll find anyone who didn't think he was any good.  He was good, just not great.

[MakeBuffaloGreatAgain]

9 hours ago, Ol Dirty B said:

 

Where the hell do you have any evidence of Zay panning out? 

 

 

What a salty little feller you are... 7 TDs is better than 2. It’s not other worldly, but it’s definitely improving. Was panning out “too extreme” of a phrase for you, princess? I apologize for that... let’s say he has been improving drastically. I agree that this is his make or break year, but to deny his growth from year one to year two is dumb. And I know we all agree that he wasn’t an all pro, but he looked decent last year... therefore he may be panning out. Get over yourself please... it’s unbecoming 

Edited July 24, 2019 by MakeBuffaloGreatAgain

[C.Biscuit97]

24 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

I doubt you'll find anyone who didn't think he was any good.  He was good, just not great.

You have a bad memory Doc.  He got roasted on here any time he gave up a catch.  I think Gilmore and White are really good cbs.  People hated Gilmore because he didn’t smile when he was drafted and was quiet.  White is more out going so he is liked more.  

[Rc2catch]

4 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

You have a bad memory Doc.  He got roasted on here any time he gave up a catch.  I think Gilmore and White are really good cbs.  People hated Gilmore because he didn’t smile when he was drafted and was quiet.  White is more out going so he is liked more.  

I agree Gilmore took a ton of flaming in his time in buffalo. Some deserved he sometimes had the look he wasn’t even trying or paying attention. Reminded me of a kid playing outfield in baseball chasing butterflies lol. When Gilmore is on though he’s an elite level corner. He showed that here that’s why the pats paid him. Belichick knew he could get more focus out of him. And it was money well invested for their defense 

[GunnerBill]

47 minutes ago, Golden Goat said:

Houston's o-line was 37 sacks worse than our offensive line? I disagree. At some point you have to look at the QB. Ours seemed to have a knack for avoiding sacks that Watson took. And, Allen didn't have a sure-handed (arguably the league's best) receiver to dump the ball off to, like Watson did.

 

Houston's Oline was atrocious. Anyone other than DeShaun Watson would have taken double the sacks he took. Go watch the games. It was miracle escape after miracle escape. He does hold the ball at times a bit too long - he always wants to make a play when there are times he should get rid and live to fight another down. But the % of those sacks that were on Watson is tiny. 

[TPS]

On 7/23/2019 at 2:57 PM, BillsfaninSB said:

As training camp approaches I was thinking about personnel and how the 4 main picks from the 2017 draft could play a crucial part in this team’s success.   If Jones takes it to another level and Dawkins and Milano continue to progress, I have to give McDermott a lot a credit for his first draft while strapped with a lame duck GM. 

 

I can understand if many see whiffing on Mahommes as unforgivable, but that aside, the HC may have done really well for his 1st draft and makes me optimistic that he gets it.

 

We don’t know yet if it is a great draft but given the previous regimes track record it’s lookin pretty good. 

 

I think we'll be saying this about all three of this regime's drafts, wrt their ability to mine talent.  

2017: the first 4 picks are starters, so they hit on 4/6.

2018: the first 4 picks are starters (I'd call H. Phillips a starter given their use of two waves on the DL). Neal and Teller should both be valuable back-ups.   Ray-ray is probably gone-gone this year.  Call it 6/8 on this draft.

2019 of course is way too early, but...I think it's a safe bet the first 4 picks will be starters at some point.  People seem very high on Vosean, so I think we can at least say they hit on 5/8 with potential for more.

 

Overall, and it is preliminary, it looks like they have about a 70% success rate on their three drafts.  The Nix-Whaley era was under 50%. Prior to that, it was the dark ages of Bills drafting...

 

[BuffaloBill]

On 7/23/2019 at 4:25 PM, Alphadawg7 said:

 

This kind of take drives me crazy...nothing you said here was really accurate at the time.  

1. Our offense in the 15 games under Tyrod (they sat him the last game of the season) was 3rd in the NFL in Touchdowns scored behind only Saints and Atlanta (and only a few behind them) and 5th in the NFL in scoring.  We had the #1 rushing attack in the NFL too.
2. Our defense however was a mirage at being mediocre because Brady had been suspended, Gronk was hurt, Jimmy G was hurt, and so was the rookie QB who started week 4 and we shut them out.  Because of that shutout, we were like 18th or something the league in points allowed.  However, in the other 15 games that weren't such a disastrous anomaly for the opponent, we were 26th in the NFL in points allowed.  Plus, had Brady played week 4, they likely put up over 30 points on us like he did a few weeks later and that would have dropped us to 28th.  

McD had just gotten here and came from a team with a dual threat QB.  He had not yet worked Tyrod yet, who had only 3 seasons as a starter still yet had 3 different OC's in that span.  However, despite that, it was the 2nd highest scoring stretch in Buffalo Bills history, and second only to the first 3 SB years.  He was also a 2 time Pro Bowler at that point too.

 

It was NOT a lock we needed a QB, however, our defense was one of the worst in the NFL while our offense was scoring well.  In fact, McD managed to take that team and break our playoff streak of 17 years and get that monkey off this franchises back by simply improving the defense.  And going into the draft, Mahomes was HIGHLY debated as if he was even a first round graded prospect.  Watson wasn't a slam dunk either, so its not like they passed on prospects as touted as a Luck or Manning were.  

 

Almost no one here wanted Mahomes, but people LOVE talking from the future while ignoring the reality of what was going on at the time things happened.  

 

And quite frankly, if Allen pans out (and its looking good so far), this would have been a tremendous path he took.  That draft in 2017 is looking very strong for us moving forward as Tre is already a top CB in this league, Milano was on his way to being a very good LB before he got hurt last year, Dawkins was pretty good when he wasn't playing with TERRIBLE lineman around him, and that draft would be even better draft if Zay takes a step forward this year.

 

If Allen pans out, I would rather have Allen, Tre, Dawkins, Milano, Zay, Edmunds to go with new guys like Ford and Oliver this year.  Mahomes was added to an already very good roster.  McD and Beane have had to rebuild an entire organization, cap situation, and roster and in that first season with McD and Whaley, he had not yet known what he had here he could work with and what needed to go.  

 

BOTTOM LINE:  There is MORE than ONE way to build a contender...you have NO evidence that the path we have taken is wrong or not going to work, and right now, the momentum is upward and things look quite promising.  So get over Mahomes and Watson, things STILL worked out pretty well for us in that draft and things are pretty exciting right now.

 

 

Yes, everyone is stuck on the Mahomes pick that could have been.  There was no consensus on the guy in the draft.  He has had one good season.  Let’s see how time evaluates him.  Dark Prescott looked pretty good and then has settled into an above average QB.  Mahomes is not immune to this.

[Doc]

4 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

You have a bad memory Doc.  He got roasted on here any time he gave up a catch.  I think Gilmore and White are really good cbs.  People hated Gilmore because he didn’t smile when he was drafted and was quiet.  White is more out going so he is liked more.  

 

Yeah that's why I said good and not great.

 

[klos63]

21 hours ago, Buffalo03 said:

He was great his rookie year. He did slip a little bit last season but was still our best olineman by far. He didn't get much help to be honest

he slipped a lot. He was pretty  bad.

[Buffalo03]

10 hours ago, klos63 said:

he slipped a lot. He was pretty  bad.

I think you're saying that because pretty much the whole line was bad and he just kind of blended in with it. He wasn't that bad. He had a decent year and was still our best lineman