Bills 2017 Draft - It Might Be Really Good

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

5 minutes ago, SoTier said:

 

The Bills traded away the opportunity to draft Patrick Mahomes.  That will haunt the 2017 draft unless Allen turns into a HOF QB because that looks like where Mahomes is heading.  Trading away the opportunity to draft a franchise QB in order to take a DB, no matter how good, is a mistake.   Great DBs are a dime a dozen compared to great QBs, and the difference in importance between the two positions is immeasurable.

The Bills wasted a pick in trading up to take Zay Jones, who has only been a starter because the Bills don't have anybody better -- while JuJu Smith-Schuster was still on the board.

The Bills traded up to take Dion Dawkins.  That might or might not be a worthwhile pick but Dawkins has to step up and not be a starter simply because -- again -- there's nobody better.

Milano is a good pick for a fifth round pick.

 

A good draft produces players who can start on most teams in the NFL.  The 2017 draft produce 1 player, White, and maybe another in Milano.  Jones wouldn't start on most NFL teams, and Dawkins wouldn't be good enough to start on many.  

 

A great draft produces elite and excellent players, and the Bills passed on one when they had the opportunity.

At least the guy they acquired in the trade down is an elite player.  

I'm not a big fan of the zay pick, for the same reasons.  He doesn't project as a #1 and you could have stood pat and ended up with either the same players, or JuJu/Dawkins, or Kupp/Dawkins.  He has also improved a bunch, and i wouldn't consider a flat-out bust.  

 

Dawkins was actually pretty good as a rookie, and i like the Beane method of improvement.  I brought in guys to take your job because you weren't good enough.  Get better or get on the bench.

 

Milano has been excellent for a 5th round pick.  

No busts til pick 171 - added a 1st for 2018, then dismantled a flawed roster and ate the dead cap to prepare for the future.  4 Good players to add to a re-build on the fly.

[Augie]

1 minute ago, dneveu said:

 

Yeah - its the same as the allen haters on twitter.  They would rather be right about him failing... than just root for their own teams success.  Its unbearable.

 

You just made me happy I never bothered with twitter! I couldn’t take much more of that!

 

But you’re right, some people would rather be right than see their team succeed. I don’t get that, and while I recognize all is not perfect, I prefer to live with a positive attitude, and I like our direction. If Josh is NOT the guy, I’d lean to give them another crack at QB. Franchise QB is a crapshoot at best.  If we go 2-14 (as we did back to back right after I got married and my bride asked “why do you do this to yourself?” I’m MUCH BETTER now!) it will be disappointing, but hardly change my life. 

[C.Biscuit97]

1 hour ago, Doc said:

 

Hindsight is great.  All these people saying "we should have taken Mahomes or Watson" never said a word about them before the draft.

So completely false.  I wanted both guys.  I loved Mahomes tools and production (Tech guys are hard to predict but Mahomes was so physically gifted) and loved Watson because he was a winner and played the best in title games.  There were a few other posters who said the same.  So unless Allen because a franchise guy, it’s hard to just her past not drafting either qb.  

 

It also included the awful Zay trade up.  The other guys are nice players but they don’t matter if you past on elite QBs.

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

1 minute ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

So completely false.  I wanted both guys.  I loved Mahomes tools and production (Tech guys are hard to predict but Mahomes was so physically gifted) and loved Watson because he was a winner and played the best in title games.  There were a few other posters who said the same.  So unless Allen because a franchise guy, it’s hard to just her past not drafting either qb.  

 

It also included the awful Zay trade up.  The other guys are nice players but they don’t matter if you past on elite QBs.

 

I liked Mahomes, was turned off by Watsons arm issues at the combine or whatever.  Low velocity or something seemed a bit of a concern pre-draft.  

[Augie]

3 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

....and how many wanted no part of Mahomes because he was from the leper like "Air Raid Offense"?.....plenty of "an Air Raid QB NEVER makes it in the NFL" quotes abound....and now the ongoing "shoulda...coulda...woulda syndrome"......while awaiting mea culpas from the "NEVER" crowd on the "we blew it wagon"....crickets..........certainly a superb 2nd year and now let's see if opposing DC's have an answer.......will be interesting season for the youngster....fun to watch....

 

 

Lots of talk about the sloppy footwork, too. Could he clean it up? He’s certainly very talented, but he also had a PERFECT situation. Far better than what Josh stepped into. How does it turn out? Time will tell.......I’m not saying Josh will be Mahomes one day, but one can hope he has a terrific career with the Bills. . 

[C.Biscuit97]

Just now, dneveu said:

 

I liked Mahomes, was turned off by Watsons arm issues at the combine or whatever.  Low velocity or something seemed a bit of a concern pre-draft.  

That’s fair.  I think I was worried about that and his size but dominating Bama 2 years in a row eased my mind.   He is really good and plays behind an awful oline. 

2 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

Lots of talk about the sloppy footwork, too. Could he clean it up? He’s certainly very talented, but he also had a PERFECT situation. Far better than what Josh stepped into. How does it turn out? Time will tell.......I’m not saying Josh will be Mahomes one day, but one can hope he has a terrific career with the Bills. . 

But Mahomes got selected by a great offensive coach who recognized his talent.  Allen got selected by a defensive coach and a guy who has a terrible NFL resume (Daboll).  That is why the pick terrifies me.  

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

3 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

So completely false.  I wanted both guys.  I loved Mahomes tools and production (Tech guys are hard to predict but Mahomes was so physically gifted) and loved Watson because he was a winner and played the best in title games.  There were a few other posters who said the same.  So unless Allen because a franchise guy, it’s hard to just her past not drafting either qb.  

 

It also included the awful Zay trade up.  The other guys are nice players but they don’t matter if you past on elite QBs.

 

...and you knew exactly HOW that Mahomes was to be elite (SO FAR)?.....thought the quotes were "an Air Raid QB NEVER makes it in the NFL".........you know, that "leper like offense".....obviously, he had one helluva season, but let's follow him going forward before the "elite declaration"......yes, but we all know that "you knew".....um ok....

7 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

Lots of talk about the sloppy footwork, too. Could he clean it up? He’s certainly very talented, but he also had a PERFECT situation. Far better than what Josh stepped into. How does it turn out? Time will tell.......I’m not saying Josh will be Mahomes one day, but one can hope he has a terrific career with the Bills. . 

 

wholeheartedly agree Augie......sat behind Alex for a year, had a talented roster as well as an offensively minded HC.....not too bad an environment I'd say......so let's watch years 3, 4 and...???......

[C.Biscuit97]

2 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

...and you knew exactly HOW that Mahomes was to be elite (SO FAR)?.....thought the quotes were "an Air Raid QB NEVER makes it in the NFL".........you know, that "leper like offense".....obviously, he had one helluva season, but let's follow him going forward before the "elite declaration"......yes, but we all know that "you knew".....um ok....

 

wholeheartedly agree Augie......sat behind Alex for a year, had a talented roster as well as an offensively minded HC.....not too bad an environment I'd say......so let's watch years 3, 4 and...???......

1). why couldn’t McBeane, who everyone praises, provide a similar environment?

 

2). Maybe if your former boss wants your draft pick, he wants it for a reason.  

 

I do feel bad for Allen but it will be a constant comparison.  If Allen becomes good to great, no one cares.  Anything less than that, it’s one of the worst trades in Bills history. 

[PlayoffsPlease]

1 hour ago, Doc said:

 

Hindsight is great.  All these people saying "we should have taken Mahomes or Watson" never said a word about them before the draft.

That is not true.  There were plenty of Mahomes and Watson lovers in Buffalo.  BTW way, reviewing the 2017 draft is 100% about hindsight. Drafts are about choices, you have to evaluate the choices, which includes what were the alternatives.  Phil Simms was a good QB, does that mean the Giants would not have been better off without Joe Montana? 

[C.Biscuit97]

Just now, PlayoffsPlease said:

That is not true.  There were plenty of Mahomes and Watson lovers in Buffalo.  BTW way, reviewing the 2017 draft is 100% about hindsight. Drafts are about choices, you have to evaluate the choices, which includes what were the alternatives.  Phil Simms was a good QB, does that mean the Giants would not have been better off without Joe Montana? 

I will say if Allen becomes Simms to Mahomes’ Montana, I can live with that.  

[thurst44]

17 minutes ago, Chemical said:

 

I’m not writing him off at all. Mahomes had one of the best seasons of any QB ever on his first try. It’s just not realistic or fair to think Allen will be that good. Nothing against Allen in the slightest. 

I'm talking about on the same level over a career. Mahomes had an amazing season in his first as a starter. We have yet to see what he does in the rest of his career nor what Allen will do in his second season and beyond. 

 

Let's say Allen has a great year but sub-Mahomes in 2018: 35 tds, 10 rushing, 4000 yards, 15 interceptions and Bills go 10-6 or 11-5, do the Bills still lose the 2017 draft? If they get an elite CB and the pick that allows them to get their franchise QB, that's a win in my book, even if Mahomes has a better career. 

[C.Biscuit97]

3 minutes ago, thurst44 said:

I'm talking about on the same level over a career. Mahomes had an amazing season in his first as a starter. We have yet to see what he does in the rest of his career nor what Allen will do in his second season and beyond. 

 

Let's say Allen has a great year but sub-Mahomes in 2018: 35 tds, 10 rushing, 4000 yards, 15 interceptions and Bills go 10-6 or 11-5, do the Bills still lose the 2017 draft? If they get an elite CB and the pick that allows them to get their franchise QB, that's a win in my book, even if Mahomes has a better career. 

Completely agree.  That’s also an insane job in Allen’s production.  He didn’t even those numbers in college.  But if he can become a good nfl starter, it is a much easier trade to take.  

 

And i love guys like Milano but late round solid starting Lbs get found all the time. Weirdly the 2017 draft comes down to Allen. 

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

7 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

I will say if Allen becomes Simms to Mahomes’ Montana, I can live with that.  

..how noble...........

[Golden Goat]

Watson led the league in sacks taken last year by a lot. Behind our line, he'd be retired (if not expired) by now.

[PlayoffsPlease]

14 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

I will say if Allen becomes Simms to Mahomes’ Montana, I can live with that.  

You can, and zero people in the world will agree it was the best way to go. 

[artmalibu]

The Mahomes thing is getting a little old imo.  Yea they traded the pick away and selected one of the best corners in the league and a 1st round pick to boot.  

 

As good as Mahomes looked last year try imagine him being a rookie and playing for the Bills last year. How good would he have looked.  Not to mention he took over an offense that was already pretty good and well coached.  

 

There are worse none pick QBs like Brady, Breeze, Wilson, Rogers.  Only one was a 1st round in the back half and we all know where the other guys were picked.  

[Saxum]

1 hour ago, Chemical said:

 We took Nathan Peterman. Our opening day starter less than one year ago. 

P5t5rman was a fabulous 5th round pick.

[Rock-A-Bye Beasley]

5 minutes ago, artmalibu said:

The Mahomes thing is getting a little old imo.  Yea they traded the pick away and selected one of the best corners in the league and a 1st round pick to boot.  

 

As good as Mahomes looked last year try imagine him being a rookie and playing for the Bills last year. How good would he have looked.  Not to mention he took over an offense that was already pretty good and well coached.  

 

There are worse none pick QBs like Brady, Breeze, Wilson, Rogers.  Only one was a 1st round in the back half and we all know where the other guys were picked.  

 

No THIS Mahomes thing is getting a little old. What a loser mentality. Why bother getting anyone good if the other guys are gonna just make him bad by association. 

 

He would have come in for tyrod at some point and never gave up the job. If we end up playing Jax in the playoffs maybe he wins that game. 

 

What a joke. 

[artmalibu]

1 minute ago, Chemical said:

 

No THIS Mahomes thing is getting a little old. What a loser mentality. Why bother getting anyone good if the other guys are gonna just make him bad by association. 

 

He would have come in for tyrod at some point and never gave up the job. If we end up playing Jax in the playoffs maybe he wins that game. 

 

What a joke. 

 

 

Ok caption Hindsite... 

 

The year before last when mahomes was sitting on the bench I didnt see much complaining about trading out of the pick. 

 

When Josh Allen beats Mahomes in the AFC champion game we will see who the joke is on.   

[nucci]

19 minutes ago, artmalibu said:

The Mahomes thing is getting a little old imo.  Yea they traded the pick away and selected one of the best corners in the league and a 1st round pick to boot.  

 

As good as Mahomes looked last year try imagine him being a rookie and playing for the Bills last year. How good would he have looked.  Not to mention he took over an offense that was already pretty good and well coached.  

 

There are worse none pick QBs like Brady, Breeze, Wilson, Rogers.  Only one was a 1st round in the back half and we all know where the other guys were picked.  

So we don't pick a good player because the team is not good?