Duke Williams- can he make the team?

[Commish]

1 hour ago, 4thandGoal said:

He wont make the team... too many WRs in front of him and the last two spots at WR will be special teams. 

So, what about Duke Williams makes him any more or less likely to be able to play special teams?

 

Serious question. Patrick DiMarco, e.g., has apparently sucked up a roster spot for years based on special teams ability, but what does he [or Tasker, back in the day] do that Duke Williams couldn't be taught to do?

 

[Mister Defense]

I think signing Williams may end up being one of the best off season moves by the Bills. He  dominated in high school, junior college, and in the CFL.

 

In my view, if in the fall we are talking about players like Williams, Singletary, Knox, Dawson.. the Bills will have a great year.

[BillsfanAZ]

It will depend on how many WR's the Bills keep. I think Williams and Sills will battle for the last spot. I would be surprised to see Sills not make it because another team will most likely swoop in and add him to their roster for development

[Rocky Landing]

3 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

How does five-star talent translate to the NFL?  How does being a good starting receiver in the SEC translate to the NFL?  

 

The guy has had success everywhere he's gone.  He has size, decent speed, outstanding hands and, now, maturity.  That's the kind 6

of resume that translates very well.  

 

U agree with Hapless abou McKenzie.  He never has looked like a guy who is going to win a job as a receiver. Special teams and gadget plays, sure, but not a starting receiver. 

Unfortunately, that is not entirely true. After being expelled from Auburn, he seriously crashed. His combine was truly awful. He went undrafted. He was picked up by the Rams as a UDFA and was invisible. He then ended up with the CFL where his first season was unremarkable, until he finally got himself together. It wasn't really until last year that he had success as a professional football player.

[Rocky Landing]

1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I think they may mean "physical prime"?

 

For a guy who has been in the league, would mean he's a vet, he's figured out the system, he knows how to get it done.

 

I think the two questions for Duke Williams are:

1) will he dedicate himself to learning the playbook thoroughly and will he get/accept good coaching?

2) will he try to play special teams?  from some clips on him, he's got the love of contact that could make him a good ST'er, if he's got the fire for it.  Roberts could be a good mentor for the guy in that regard.

I think folks are right about the fistful of WR fighting for 2 spots, and also that when considering those spots, who is willing to try hard at ST becomes a primary factor.

From what I have read about him, and the few times he has spoken to the press, it would seem like 1) he is willing to do whatever is asked of him. He seems well-aware of his situation. I remember reading an article about him in which the Eskimos QB called him out for not paying attention during a walk through. It was around this time that the light came on for him, and he really started to focus, and get himself turned around. Apparently, moving forward from that callout, Williams really started communicating with his QB, and coaches, and it showed in his production.

And, 2) from the tape on him with the CFL, I would think he could be a natural on ST. As the Eskimos' #1 WR, I doubt he played ST while he was there (although, I don't know), but he looks like he could be an ace Marcus Easley type ST player. 

[GunnerBill]

I don't think he makes it. He struggled to even get a shot with the 2s during the spring he was almost exclusively with the 3s. As was David Sills V. 

 

My belief is that if it comes down to a final receiver spot and you are at ties between a "big guy" and a "gadget guy" then Daboll will want the gadget guy because quite simply that is more important to his scheme. 

 

I also think Badol is right about where Duke fits. He isn't a developmental rookie and at the moment he doesn't seem to play teams. When you put all that together the only conclusion is that he has to be a guy they are counting on as one of their top 4 guys or he has to prove he has what it takes to be a core STer or he doesn't make it. 

 

I think the window is slightly more ajar for Sills. He could, more legitimately, fill the definition of developmental high ceiling guy that they want to work with and don't dare expose to waivers so keep as the 6th (and normally inactive) receiver. 

 

What I will say is the first week of camp is likely to be decisive. The pattern, for those who haven't been watching closely, of McDermott camps - both with Dennison and Daboll - is they have spent the first week cycling guys out there with the 1s at receiver positions and it is the guys who have showed up in that portion of the pre-season, rather than in the games that come later, that have ultimately made the cut. See Streater in 2017 (though he ended up waived / injured before the season) and Foster last year. 

 

Put me in the camp that still believes when all is said and done McKenzie will have the final spot. 

[John from Riverside]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

I don't think he makes it. He struggled to even get a shot with the 2s during the spring he was almost exclusively with the 3s. As was David Sills V. 

 

My belief is that if it comes down to a final receiver spot and you are at ties between a "big guy" and a "gadget guy" then Daboll will want the gadget guy because quite simply that is more important to his scheme. 

 

I also think Badol is right about where Duke fits. He isn't a developmental rookie and at the moment he doesn't seem to play teams. When you put all that together the only conclusion is that he has to be a guy they are counting on as one of their top 4 guys or he has to prove he has what it takes to be a core STer or he doesn't make it. 

 

I think the window is slightly more ajar for Sills. He could, more legitimately, fill the definition of developmental high ceiling guy that they want to work with and don't dare expose to waivers so keep as the 6th (and normally inactive) receiver. 

 

What I will say is the first week of camp is likely to be decisive. The pattern, for those who haven't been watching closely, of McDermott camps - both with Dennison and Daboll - is they have spent the first week cycling guys out there with the 1s at receiver positions and it is the guys who have showed up in that portion of the pre-season, rather than in the games that come later, that have ultimately made the cut. See Streater in 2017 (though he ended up waived / injured before the season) and Foster last year. 

 

Put me in the camp that still believes when all is said and done McKenzie will have the final spot. 

There will be some feel good stories that will start to drop off now that the practices become real.

 

I personally hope one of him or Sills DOES show out because we could use some size.

 

And if it IS McKenzie.....I hope he does a better job of catching the ball this year......too many balls hitting the ground last year with these receivers.

Edited July 22, 2019 by John from Riverside

[MAJBobby]

Williams, Sills, McKenzie and McCloud IMO have an uphill battle and likely are shooting for PS slots 

 

there are 1 maybe 2 open spots. I still think buffalo only carries 6 WR. Although lack of TEs might have them carry 7. Numbers game doesn’t work out for these guys 

Edited July 22, 2019 by MAJBobby

[NewEra]

Can he? Yes.  Will he? I hope so, but I doubt it

[ghostwriter]

20 minutes ago, NewEra said:

Can he? Yes.  Will he? I hope so, but I doubt it

I'll bet you 10,000 gummy bears he does not make the team.

[NewEra]

40 minutes ago, NewDayBills said:

I'll bet you 10,000 gummy bears he does not make the team.

 

I don’t think he will make the team either.....but he “can” make the team.

[Bing Bong]

19 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Rugby dude doesn't count against the 53 this year 'cuz special program.  He stays.
 

Serious question: why is everyone so hot on McKensie?  What does he do that makes him stand out except those jet sweep/reverse type gadget plays?

 

 

I find McKenzie overrated too. I think he just stood out as a servicable player in a really weak position group.. especially since we got him off the scrap heap and noticeably improved just from replacing guys that didn't even belong. His jet sweep was a nice play to add to the nothingness Holmes and Kelvin Benjamin brought to the table.. and Josh Allen really looks like he needs speed over anything.

 

Our worst WR should be at McKenzie's level or better. There were games last year where I would have thought he was our second best. Don't mind if he goes because we've filled out the position. Don't mind if he stays as solid depth 

Edited July 22, 2019 by BarkleyForGOATBackupPT5P

[Alphadawg7]

3 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

I don't think he makes it. He struggled to even get a shot with the 2s during the spring he was almost exclusively with the 3s. As was David Sills V. 

 

My belief is that if it comes down to a final receiver spot and you are at ties between a "big guy" and a "gadget guy" then Daboll will want the gadget guy because quite simply that is more important to his scheme. 

 

I also think Badol is right about where Duke fits. He isn't a developmental rookie and at the moment he doesn't seem to play teams. When you put all that together the only conclusion is that he has to be a guy they are counting on as one of their top 4 guys or he has to prove he has what it takes to be a core STer or he doesn't make it. 

 

I think the window is slightly more ajar for Sills. He could, more legitimately, fill the definition of developmental high ceiling guy that they want to work with and don't dare expose to waivers so keep as the 6th (and normally inactive) receiver. 

 

What I will say is the first week of camp is likely to be decisive. The pattern, for those who haven't been watching closely, of McDermott camps - both with Dennison and Daboll - is they have spent the first week cycling guys out there with the 1s at receiver positions and it is the guys who have showed up in that portion of the pre-season, rather than in the games that come later, that have ultimately made the cut. See Streater in 2017 (though he ended up waived / injured before the season) and Foster last year. 

 

Put me in the camp that still believes when all is said and done McKenzie will have the final spot. 

 

Daboll isnt making that call though, Beane is and it will ultimately be his decision.   And seeing how bad they wanted Sills, I don't see Beane cutting him for a gadget guy if all things are equal, especially since we already got guys who will make this team that can do the "gadget" type things.  You don't need a designated player to run a once in a while gadget route or play if you have guys already on the roster capable of executing the play as well.

 

Now if the gadget guy has clearly beaten Sills out, of course I see him siding that way.  

[Alphadawg7]

20 hours ago, Rc2catch said:

One thing is for sure though, if/when him and Sills get cut half this board will go into meltdown about how they’ll take New England or KC or someone to the super bowl 

 

6 hours ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

 

It is known as Da’syndrome...

 

After a very famous canton bound WR the Bills once cut. Now the guy nearly caught on with the colts and chiefs, but he’s going to ascend to non CFL greatness any day now. 

 

 

Which i suspect isn’t going to be a strong suit for him. 

 

I was around for the Da"Rick Rogers melt downs haha.  However, while I get the warranted reference, its not really nearly the same thing.  People aren't nearly as over the top or crazy about either Sills and Duke as they were with Rogers.  Dont see any the same major arguments exploding on this board either.  I mean people lost their minds when he wound up on the Colts lol.  

 

People are confusing "excitement" to see what they can do with those unsubstantiated, unwarranted, and crazy declarations that followed Rogers for some reason.  

 

I myself am excited to see Duke and Sills get on the field.  I am even optimistic one of them makes this team given the added dimension they can bring to the WR group (assuming they earn that spot in camp and preseason of course).  But no one is freaking out about these guys or making declarations they are going to be our next great WRs...there are a few people negative on both these guys that are over exaggerating what people are saying about these guys.  That being said, I am sure there is some dumb post here or there where someone made some over the top positive declaration on one of them, but ultimately the vast majority of this board who is interested in them is pretty level headed about these guys and just excited to see what they can do and if they can make the team.  

[Alphadawg7]

6 hours ago, MAJBobby said:

Robert Foster (will make the Team) 6-2

Zay Jones (Will make the Team) 6-2

David Sills 6-3

Duke Williams 6-3

 

So based on Bills Roster already will have players similar Height Making the team

 

Yeah but Foster and Jones do not play like "big" WRs.  Jones has really struggled with contested catches, jump balls, high pointing, etc and has seen himself get dominated by physical corners too many times.  Fosters game isn't "physical" either and mostly been about speed and elusiveness.  

 

Duke and Sills appeal is that they have a lot of tape of them really using their body and size to their advantage.  When it comes to playing as a big WR in the NFL, their actual height is only part of it.  

 

Of course they have both worked hard this offseason to elevate their game, so we need to see how that translates on the filed.  But up to now, we have not had a big strong target who can be open even when not opened for Josh to throw to.  Someone who can big on 3rd downs, Redzone, goal line, etc.  This is why people are intrigued by Sills and Duke, we have a huge QB with a cannon for an arm, having a weapon who can be physical, body up someone, and high point a ball in tight spaces would be a great asset for him.  

 

WR camp and preseason battle should be pretty fun to watch unfold overall, not just who will make the team but also the pecking order.  Only spots really set are Cole at the slot and Roberts as the returner.  

[billsredneck1]

7 hours ago, MAJBobby said:

Let see here:

 

Cole Beasley - Makes it

John Brown - Makes it

Robert Foster - Makes it

Zay Jones - Makes it

Andre Roberts - Makes it 

 

So depending on Keeping 6 or 7 leaves one or two spots for 

Victor Bolden

Nick Easley

Ray Ray McCloud

Isaiah McKenzie

Cam Phillips

Duke WIlliams (TBH, I think goes to PS as a TE Conversion Project similar to Croom was)

Da'Mari Scott

Davis Sills (think goes to PS but the Bills did try to draft him and put a ton of effort in him as a UDFA, based on Embedded) So could have the leg up on grabbing one of the remaining spots.

 

i think we'll carry 7 seeins how roberts will pretty much be a steamer.  brown, beasley, foster, jones, duke, sills and (roberts). that would be dope  yo.

 

edit: come to think of it ..throw in knox, croom and sweeny along with our rb stable, we should have the weapons to really light an offensive inferno this year. i haven't been this excited in 25 yrs. btw. i don't think we'll see kroft til week 3 and then i'm guessing injury settlement. i've never seen a foot problem overcome long term.

 

Edited July 22, 2019 by billsredneck1

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

...McBeane was quoted in an interview about Duke (will have to paraphrase) namely, "the signing of Duke Williams changed the need for drafting a WR early as a top priority".....sure sounds like high hopes for this kid who appears to have turned it around.......as usual some souring TBD experts said "nothing but camp fodder"....go figure.....

Edited July 22, 2019 by OldTimeAFLGuy

[GunnerBill]

36 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Daboll isnt making that call though, Beane is and it will ultimately be his decision.   And seeing how bad they wanted Sills, I don't see Beane cutting him for a gadget guy if all things are equal, especially since we already got guys who will make this team that can do the "gadget" type things.  You don't need a designated player to run a once in a while gadget route or play if you have guys already on the roster capable of executing the play as well.

 

Now if the gadget guy has clearly beaten Sills out, of course I see him siding that way.  

 

I can tell you now that the moves they made half way through last year were with Daboll's urgings. He was saying get me speed and get me gadget and forget size. You are right that the final call will be Beane's but I believe their offensive coordinator will have a very significant say in that decision. When they went Daboll's way in the 2nd half of last season the offense improved. That bought him credibility in the building. Now I am not saying them cutting Benjamin proves they have no need for size. It is just less essential in Daboll's scheme than in others (that is just a statement of fact). And they have reasonable size already with Zay and Foster.

 

I also disagree that they have other guys who can do the gadget stuff who will definitely make the roster. I don't think they do. And they don't just run those plays "once in a while." Daboll was trying to run sweeps with Zay freaking Jones in the first half of the season. They are an important part of what he wants to do. Attack them deep with Allen's arm but make them defend the edge with the gadget stuff - the sweeps, the reverses, the bubble screens - so that they have to defend horizontally as well as vertically. Yeldon, maybe, could do some of it... but he isn't as good at it and he isn't a lock to make the roster either. Shady can do it (I still think Shady can play) but every time he is out there teams are keyed in on him. Roberts has never done it in his career, and it isn't Foster or Brown's game. 

 

To me if it is ties they will go gadget > size. And if they don't then they should. Because they need to commit to what Brian Daboll is doing to give Josh every chance to succeed. I know you are high on Sills. I think Sills has a chance. But I think he has to be better than the gadget types (or prove himself a special teams ace) to win a spot. And Williams I think has to be decisively one of their top 4 guys to make it. 

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

8 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I can tell you now that the moves they made half way through last year were with Daboll's urgings. He was saying get me speed and get me gadget and forget size. You are right that the final call will be Beane's but I believe their offensive coordinator will have a very significant say in that decision. When they went Daboll's way in the 2nd half of last season the offense improved. That bought him credibility in the building. Now I am not saying them cutting Benjamin proves they have no need for size. It is just less essential in Daboll's scheme than in others (that is just a statement of fact). And they have reasonable size already with Zay and Foster.

 

I also disagree that they have other guys who can do the gadget stuff who will definitely make the roster. I don't think they do. And they don't just run those plays "once in a while." Daboll was trying to run sweeps with Zay freaking Jones in the first half of the season. They are an important part of what he wants to do. Attack them deep with Allen's arm but make them defend the edge with the gadget stuff - the sweeps, the reverses, the bubble screens - so that they have to defend horizontally as well as vertically. Yeldon, maybe, could do some of it... but he isn't as good at it and he isn't a lock to make the roster either. Shady can do it (I still think Shady can play) but every time he is out there teams are keyed in on him. Roberts has never done it in his career, and it isn't Foster or Brown's game. 

 

To me if it is ties they will go gadget > size. And if they don't then they should. Because they need to commit to what Brian Daboll is doing to give Josh every chance to succeed. I know you are high on Sills. I think Sills has a chance. But I think he has to be better than the gadget types (or prove himself a special teams ace) to win a spot. And Williams I think has to be decisively one of their top 4 guys to make it. 

 

...think I understand your meaning of "gadget guys" GB.....perhaps wrong, but Spiller and Roscoe come to mind.......Roscoe was termed a "unnecessary "luxury pick".....didn't one of our OC braintrusts try Spiller "between the tackles"?.....think the battle cry was that Daboll "had no talent to work with" and perhaps rightfully so...but I think he does now (sure it's on paper at this juncture)....so I think it's realistic to look for him to be innovative and creative without the need for gadget crap.....just my opinion........

[billsredneck1]

the gadget guys and plays were out of necessity last year. they don't have to save a roster spot just to pull off reverses and sweeps this year.