John from Riverside Posted July 19, 2019 Posted July 19, 2019 2 minutes ago, ShadyBillsFan said: Elway? Lol. Wilson also had the benefit of a great defense and the “ lm only here so I don’t get fined” fella Elway did win super bowls and was part of that whole Kelly, Marino, Elway thing I would take that
C.Biscuit97 Posted July 19, 2019 Posted July 19, 2019 9 minutes ago, Augie said: Oh Lordy! I wasn’t comparing him to Allen, who has everything to prove. I’m just saying Cam is not Wilson. Again, not hating on the guy, just don’t think he’s quite top 10. You like him more than I do, fair enough. And I was just saying that we should be very happy if Allen comes close to the career Cam has. I always get it because I used to have crazy expectations but I do think some realistic goals need to be set. At this point, there is nothing to honestly say Allen will be better than Cam. It doesn’t mean he can’t but I think some fans are setting themselves up for disappointment. And i do agree Wilson is better than Cam. I thought he was a game manager but he single handedly carries that offense with average at best receiver and a subpar oline.
Augie Posted July 19, 2019 Posted July 19, 2019 8 minutes ago, John from Riverside said: Elway did win super bowls and was part of that whole Kelly, Marino, Elway thing I would take that Just guessing here, but I think he was saying Cam is no Elway.....and I’d agree all day long. Cam is.....OK. At best.
C.Biscuit97 Posted July 19, 2019 Posted July 19, 2019 13 minutes ago, ShadyBillsFan said: Elway? Lol. Wilson also had the benefit of a great defense and the “ lm only here so I don’t get fined” fella So now, We are putting down the careers of Elway and Wilson? Dear lord, the offseason is wild! 11 minutes ago, John from Riverside said: Elway did win super bowls and was part of that whole Kelly, Marino, Elway thing I would take that Elway went to 5 Sbs and the first 3 were with some of the worst offensive talent to ever appear in a SB. He is easily at top 10 qb ever.
Augie Posted July 19, 2019 Posted July 19, 2019 1 minute ago, C.Biscuit97 said: And I was just saying that we should be very happy if Allen comes close to the career Cam has. I always get it because I used to have crazy expectations but I do think some realistic goals need to be set. At this point, there is nothing to honestly say Allen will be better than Cam. It doesn’t mean he can’t but I think some fans are setting themselves up for disappointment. And i do agree Wilson is better than Cam. I thought he was a game manager but he single handedly carries that offense with average at best receiver and a subpar oline. We just don’t know about Allen at this point. I hope he’s at least Cam, and would love to see Wilson style play. Smarter about contact and more accurate. We will know MUCH more in a year, and I’ll pray for the best!
C.Biscuit97 Posted July 19, 2019 Posted July 19, 2019 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Augie said: We just don’t know about Allen at this point. I hope he’s at least Cam, and would love to see Wilson style play. Smarter about contact and more accurate. We will know MUCH more in a year, and I’ll pray for the best! I just think you are selling Cam so short. He dominant the best conference in college football (Allen didn’t even make all MWC). Newton set rookie Passing records (Allen averaged 172 yards passing/ game). He has been a big winner on every level. And hope you know I’m not directly this to you. But a lot of posters think it will be a disappointment if Allen only ends like Cam. Cam has been pretty amazing on every level. I think he had a “different attitude “ he would be appreciated more. But have a good night brother. Edited July 19, 2019 by C.Biscuit97 4
TigerJ Posted July 19, 2019 Posted July 19, 2019 36 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said: The guy who set rookie passing records and won a MVP with his best receiver being Ted Ginn isn’t a thrower. Haha. It’s amazing how much Cam gets talked down here. He isn’t the best throwing qb but if Allen comes close to Newton, we will build a statue for him. And Wilson is a really accurate passer. He was 70% his last year on college. Also, because his size, he can avoid hits where big guys liek Allen, Newton, and Big Ben might not be able to. Newton averages 231.5 passing yards/ game for his career. Allen surpassed that number once as a rookie. I’m not even crapping on Allen. I just get amazed how undervalued Newton is here. He is a borderline HOFer. I'm not really talking about passing productivity. It's more about style. Cam has always been inclined to rely on the long ball, and Josh Allen started out that way last season. The Carolina Panthers went out and got him an OC (Norv Turner) before last season, who likes a vertical passing game. It's a good fit. As I said, I don't think Josh Allen is going to give up on the deep pass. Beane just went out and got him a speedster this offseason to pair with Robert Foster, but Daboll is also on the record as saying they are working on how Josh reads plays. Instead of starting long and checking down to short, the way Josh was accustomed to doing inn college (and I think the way Cam Newton handles his reads) Daboll is working to get him to read short and progress to long. That's what Josh did in the Miami game at the end of the season. While the Bills went out and got John Brown to stretch the field in the offseason, they also signed Cole Beasley, whose forte is creating separation underneath from the slot. Cole expects to catch a lot of balls. 1
Mr. WEO Posted July 19, 2019 Posted July 19, 2019 2 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said: The guy who set rookie passing records and won a MVP with his best receiver being Ted Ginn isn’t a thrower. Haha. It’s amazing how much Cam gets talked down here. He isn’t the best throwing qb but if Allen comes close to Newton, we will build a statue for him. And Wilson is a really accurate passer. He was 70% his last year on college. Also, because his size, he can avoid hits where big guys liek Allen, Newton, and Big Ben might not be able to. Newton averages 231.5 passing yards/ game for his career. Allen surpassed that number once as a rookie. I’m not even crapping on Allen. I just get amazed how undervalued Newton is here. He is a borderline HOFer. Come on!! Maybe in the sleaziest college football player HOF.. Look, his rookie season was his peak season as a passer. His past 3 years, he struggled to crack 3500 yards once. low 20's in passing TDs, career sub 60%. No one is depending on Cam Newton's passing game to rack up wins any more. Bills need a lot more from Allen than TT-plus type output.
Fan in Chicago Posted July 19, 2019 Posted July 19, 2019 2 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said: I’m not even crapping on Allen. I just get amazed how undervalued Newton is here. He is a borderline HOFer. Only if your definition of border is the one between the US and UK.
C.Biscuit97 Posted July 19, 2019 Posted July 19, 2019 23 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said: Come on!! Maybe in the sleaziest college football player HOF.. Look, his rookie season was his peak season as a passer. His past 3 years, he struggled to crack 3500 yards once. low 20's in passing TDs, career sub 60%. No one is depending on Cam Newton's passing game to rack up wins any more. Bills need a lot more from Allen than TT-plus type output. He had arguably the best passing season of his career last year with a shoulder injury. Wilson is better but Cam is pretty damn good but he does a celebration when he scores so he is bad! 19 minutes ago, Fan in Chicago said: Only if your definition of border is the one between the US and UK. Newton is going to destroy Kelly’s career numbers. If he wins a SB, he is a lock for the HoF. 1 hour ago, TigerJ said: I'm not really talking about passing productivity. It's more about style. Cam has always been inclined to rely on the long ball, and Josh Allen started out that way last season. The Carolina Panthers went out and got him an OC (Norv Turner) before last season, who likes a vertical passing game. It's a good fit. As I said, I don't think Josh Allen is going to give up on the deep pass. Beane just went out and got him a speedster this offseason to pair with Robert Foster, but Daboll is also on the record as saying they are working on how Josh reads plays. Instead of starting long and checking down to short, the way Josh was accustomed to doing inn college (and I think the way Cam Newton handles his reads) Daboll is working to get him to read short and progress to long. That's what Josh did in the Miami game at the end of the season. While the Bills went out and got John Brown to stretch the field in the offseason, they also signed Cole Beasley, whose forte is creating separation underneath from the slot. Cole expects to catch a lot of balls. See this is what terrifies me. I think Daboll, who has been awful at every stop besides NE, is going to force fit Allen into a Brady type style. IMO, I think this will severely hurt Allen. He’s not that type of player. It reminds me of the hiring of Dennison (who had a better offense than Daboll) forcing Tyrod into a west coast offense. What good coaches do is place their players in the best places to succeed. Allen will never be a precision passer so why force him into that? 3
Mr. WEO Posted July 19, 2019 Posted July 19, 2019 2 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said: He had arguably the best passing season of his career last year with a shoulder injury. Wilson is better but Cam is pretty damn good but he does a celebration when he scores so he is bad! Newton is going to destroy Kelly’s career numbers. If he wins a SB, he is a lock for the HoF. See this is what terrifies me. I think Daboll, who has been awful at every stop besides NE, is going to force fit Allen into a Brady type style. IMO, I think this will severely hurt Allen. He’s not that type of player. It reminds me of the hiring of Dennison (who had a better offense than Daboll) forcing Tyrod into a west coast offense. What good coaches do is place their players in the best places to succeed. Allen will never be a precision passer so why force him into that? If last year was arguably his best, then he might get comp'd a HOF ticket if he visits soon. He put up Mitch Trubisky numbers. Fitzpatrick looked better than Newton. His career as a passer, in this era of QB output, defines mediocrity. He has a single season over 25 passing TDs--in 8 years. If Carolina's plan is to continue to build their offense on Cam throwing (and decision making), they are in for more seasons of 7-9, 6-10. Destroy Kelly's numbers? Big deal. If he PLAYED with Kelly back in the day, maybe he would be in some HOF cusp discussion. But he's playing now. HOF? He will never even catch guys like Bledsoe, Testaverde or Carson Palmer. He is the equivalent of Andy Dalton. You couldn't pick a worse current 8 year starter to describe as "borderline HOF'er".
reddogblitz Posted July 19, 2019 Posted July 19, 2019 5 hours ago, Augie said: We just don’t know about Allen at this point. I hope he’s at least Cam, and would love to see Wilson style play. Smarter about contact and more accurate. We will know MUCH more in a year, and I’ll pray for the best! I'm shooting for.the moon and hoping he's a Roger Staubach type guy. I think he's got leadership and deep down burning desire to win. Maybe even comes through late like that pass to Clay in the EZ on the last play of the game. 1
Thurman#1 Posted July 19, 2019 Posted July 19, 2019 (edited) 14 hours ago, YoloinOhio said: Many think Beane believes Allen should model his game after Cam Newton... but he hints it’s actually Russell Wilson The article does say that about hinting he should model his game after Wilson. But there's no mention of Newton in the article whatsoever. Bringing in Newton was pure Yolo, with neither the writer or Beane dropping the name. But the only thing Beane appears to have been mentioning Wilson for is to say that Wilson builds his game around passing, not running. I'm sure in that sense, yeah, they'd like to have him be more like Wilson. But they're two very different players in style, build, skill set ... Both great runners, but that's about it for their similarities. Wilson's rookie year completion percentage was 64.7%. That was good for 9th in the league that year, and he got that while maintaining a much higher YPA than Allen did, 7.9 for Wilson compared to 6.5 for Allen. Wilson and Allen started with wildly different strengths to build on and weaknesses to improve. Edited July 19, 2019 by Thurman#1
Rock-A-Bye Beasley Posted July 19, 2019 Posted July 19, 2019 Dk metcalf will have 10TDs at least next year. How many yards will Devin singletary have ?
Rock-A-Bye Beasley Posted July 19, 2019 Posted July 19, 2019 13 hours ago, Shaw66 said: I don't think Allen is anything like Newton, and I doubt Beane ever though so, either. Granted, they both are big and they both can run, but Allen's game is throwing the ball. Cam isn't all that good a thrower. 52% completion percentage ring a bell?
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted July 19, 2019 Posted July 19, 2019 5 minutes ago, Chemical said: Dk metcalf will have 10TDs at least next year. How many yards will Devin singletary have ? Don't make me agree with you. I don't want to agree with you. 1
4merper4mer Posted July 19, 2019 Posted July 19, 2019 4 minutes ago, Chemical said: Dk metcalf will have 10TDs at least next year. How many yards will Devin singletary have ? This relates to the thread about as much as whether Lorenzo Alexander's car is due for an oil change or if Pete Carrol is considering coloring his hair.
Doc Brown Posted July 19, 2019 Posted July 19, 2019 The many are right. Cam Newton is the best comparison as he has a powerful arm, trouble with accuracy, and is one of the best scrambling QB's in the league. Wilson's accuracy sets him apart from those two. I do worry about injuries with Allen's style of play as Newton had a rough year last year. 1
Thurman#1 Posted July 19, 2019 Posted July 19, 2019 10 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said: The guy who set rookie passing records and won a MVP with his best receiver being Ted Ginn isn’t a thrower. Haha. It’s amazing how much Cam gets talked down here. He isn’t the best throwing qb but if Allen comes close to Newton, we will build a statue for him. And Wilson is a really accurate passer. He was 70% his last year on college. Also, because his size, he can avoid hits where big guys liek Allen, Newton, and Big Ben might not be able to. Newton averages 231.5 passing yards/ game for his career. Allen surpassed that number once as a rookie. I’m not even crapping on Allen. I just get amazed how undervalued Newton is here. He is a borderline HOFer. He really isn't. Looked for that one year like he'd really turned the corner and was headed for that kind of a career, but that's not how it's turned out. So far, at least. Newton was one of the main arguments for why the Bills might pick Allen. The Bills were building their team in many ways using the Carolina blueprint, and Carolina picked a big physical guy with problems in being consistently accurate and built a very competitive team around him, even reaching a Super Bowl. The fact that Beane did select Allen made me think that this is yet another area where the Bills like the Carolina template.
Rock-A-Bye Beasley Posted July 19, 2019 Posted July 19, 2019 1 minute ago, 4merper4mer said: This relates to the thread about as much as whether Lorenzo Alexander's car is due for an oil change or if Pete Carrol is considering coloring his hair. You’re right. But I give it 3 weeks until some are making excuses for Allen’s lack of weapons once again. 1
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