McDermott & Beane on how they avoid Coach- GM “relationship fracture”

[Say When...]

38 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Because McDermott Gave his friend a job. 

1) they didn’t let the last GM hire his own coaches.

 

2). They hired the coach before the GM.  There’s a reason why no good teams operate like this. There’s no way Beane can fire McDermott.  

 

i don't think you're wrong here but i'm not sure it's that blatant.  The component at work here that driving the 'relationship' (in quotes because i'm not 100% of the reporting/responsibility hierarchy) is respect and i think that's in the drivers seat and will set the tone as long as they work together.

 

As long as both parties are mature (personally and business) respect is a constant and can persevere through the pendulum of good and bad; you can absolutely hate someone but working for them in palatable because there's respect, subsequently the authority can relieve someone of their duties also based on respect (whether it's more or less) but it doesn't get in the way and thus i'm not sure we should label it 'friendship' more than respect and partnership towards a common goal.

[eball]

4 minutes ago, ShadyBillsFan said:

 

LOL   

he would have been a new born then when he got his account here 

 

 

It's just getting a bit ridiculous, the immature perspective.

[bigK14094]

59 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Because McDermott Gave his friend a job. 

1) they didn’t let the last GM hire his own coaches.

 

2). They hired the coach before the GM.  There’s a reason why no good teams operate like this. There’s no way Beane can fire McDermott.  

Some unknown Calculus was going on in Carolina as well.  Gettleman got canned........just after Bean and McD left.....I don't know, just trying to read between the lines.....

[DrDawkinstein]

6 hours ago, Rochesterfan said:

I really like both of these guys.  Leadership is one of the hardest things to get right because everyone has egos and everyone wants things done “their” way.

 

The quote: “You do have to be honest. We don’t always see eye to eye. You never are. There’s too many things,” Beane said. “I don’t see eye to eye with every scout I have. But we encourage people to say what’s on their mind and I think that gets you to the right answer. Don’t take it personal. And if you don’t take it personal you can get over it even if you disagree.”

 

That is what true leadership is about.  A great leader understands that discussion and communication make a stronger unit overall and that your team needs to be able to speak freely and truthfully and you need to listen. 

 

Great find Yolo.

 

We call it "Disagree & Commit"

 

Everyone gets to say their piece, give their input, and feel heard. And when Leadership makes their decision, everyone commits to it whether they agree or not. They know they were heard, they also know Leadership has other things it thinks about beyond what I or any other individual may know or contribute. So you have to trust that they if they dont go your way, it is for a good reason, and you will Commit to their decision anyways. Remove the egos and do what's best for the team.

[K-9]

6 hours ago, Rochesterfan said:

I really like both of these guys.  Leadership is one of the hardest things to get right because everyone has egos and everyone wants things done “their” way.

 

The quote: “You do have to be honest. We don’t always see eye to eye. You never are. There’s too many things,” Beane said. “I don’t see eye to eye with every scout I have. But we encourage people to say what’s on their mind and I think that gets you to the right answer. Don’t take it personal. And if you don’t take it personal you can get over it even if you disagree.”

 

That is what true leadership is about.  A great leader understands that discussion and communication make a stronger unit overall and that your team needs to be able to speak freely and truthfully and you need to listen. 

 

Great find Yolo.

Like the old saying goes, leadership isn't about getting people to follow you, it's about getting people to join you. 

[DrDawkinstein]

1 minute ago, K-9 said:

Like the old saying goes, leadership isn't about getting people to follow you, it's about getting people to join you. 

 

"If you could get all the people in the organization rowing in the same direction, you could dominate any industry, in any market, against any competition, at any time."

[Bing Bong]

The Pegulas ownership really confuses me. Rex with Whaley was just odd. I liked Whaley, still think he had the right strategy and made the right move to gamble exactly when he did. Unfortunately he blew it on EJ, got his defense Wreckxed Ryaned, but I still think that was the perfect time to push your chips in.

 

I like these guys even better. But they still need to win for me to really give credit. They appear to be on the same wavelength, can dumpster dive for great talent on bargains, especially the secondary. And they pushed their chips in at the right time of the rebuild for Josh Allen. He looks like the best raw talent I've seen in a Bills QB for 2 decades. The McBeane era is a cohesive entity, so I don't see them getting Wrexed... And Josh Allen obviously looks like a far superior pick to EJ. So the main factors that felled Whaley don't seem to be in place now. But I truly don't know the pecking order in the organization and how much of what I like from McBeane is Beane or McDermott.

 

The Pegulas really just seem to be super unaware of how professional sports organizations are ran and hopefully are picking it up. No one here has really given me definitive answers on which guy in McBeane is the most trusted or biggest influence on them. I get that they wanted to make their first hires for the regime, but I'd like one of the guys to have an influence, establish some continuity as part football czar, and make sure the Pegula's know what they're doing. The transition to McBeane since the Pegulas got the team was one of the ugliest ways to assemble a FO. If this happened to a bigger market team it would have been more publicized.

Edited July 18, 2019 by BarkleyForGOATBackupPT5P

[C.Biscuit97]

1 hour ago, eball said:

 

Are you 15 years old?  Serious question.

Are you?  Serious question.  You’re such a catty teenage girl.  

 

Follow me here Sabrina the Teenage Poster.  The Bills hire McDermott with Whaley.  Then they go through the draft, fire Whaley, and hired the GM who was McDermott’s friend in Carolina.  When you do a process that less than 1% of teams do, it leads you open to questions (but not by superfan Eball!).

[C.Biscuit97]

1 hour ago, Say When... said:

 

i don't think you're wrong here but i'm not sure it's that blatant.  The component at work here that driving the 'relationship' (in quotes because i'm not 100% of the reporting/responsibility hierarchy) is respect and i think that's in the drivers seat and will set the tone as long as they work together.

 

As long as both parties are mature (personally and business) respect is a constant and can persevere through the pendulum of good and bad; you can absolutely hate someone but working for them in palatable because there's respect, subsequently the authority can relieve someone of their duties also based on respect (whether it's more or less) but it doesn't get in the way and thus i'm not sure we should label it 'friendship' more than respect and partnership towards a common goal.

Good post.  And you make good points.  Honestly, if any team this, I’d question it.  I just care the most about the Bills.  I love the Pegulas for saving our teams.  I think they will be great owners in time.  But handcuffing Whaley with coaches and now hiring the head coach before the GM are normally ways to make certain your GM fails.

 

head coach and GM are completely different jobs.  I think SM has a huge say in personnel here.  That’s fine with defensive personnel but I worry he has a big say in offensive personnel as well.  Additionally, if they disagree on a player or if SM has a terrible year, how does Beane win that argument or fire him after SM helped him get the job?  If they win, who cares?  But this hiring process is really out there and opens yourself up for questions.  Especially when you trade a pick to your former boss (Andy Reid) that turns into the nfl mvp.  

56 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

"If you could get all the people in the organization rowing in the same direction, you could dominate any industry, in any market, against any competition, at any time."

“A rising tide lifts all boats.”

[Misterbluesky]

The two of them are from the same cloth...not many people know that they eat with their families at OBD..Beane sleeps there sometimes...Coach demands to have his breakfast at home with his children.

Could you see that happening when Marrone and Whaley were here...even though Whaley would spend many hours in his office..the family connection was missing..and Marrone liked it that way.

We're in a good place right now...these men WANT to be here.

[MJS]

All it takes is humility. Unfortunately that is exceedingly rare in the NFL.

[Bing Bong]

28 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Are you?  Serious question.  You’re such a catty teenage girl.  

 

Follow me here Sabrina the Teenage Poster.  The Bills hire McDermott with Whaley.  Then they go through the draft, fire Whaley, and hired the GM who was McDermott’s friend in Carolina.  When you do a process that less than 1% of teams do, it leads you open to questions (but not by superfan Eball!).

I honestly think if something similar happened in a bigger market.. say, Dallas or Greenbay or Giants. Like everything that happened since the Pegulas take over: make a dubious HC hire that apparently isn't aligned with the GM they left in place, watch the team get Wrexed, replace the dubious (REX RYAN) guy, draft, fire Whaley and the scouting team... THEN they finally make their first hire of a GM, possibly football czar since they know nothing apparently..

 

This all would have been heavily publicized and criticized as a mess. I mean look at the Lakers FO getting blasted for having no clear hierarchy, rookie owners, and hiring staff in the wrong order.. they've been blasted this Summer for being a tire fire!

 

And tbh honest I still don't know who is in charge. No one has shown me anything that's not speculation to prove who is in the Pegula's ear right now to tell them how sports teams operate. I felt like Whaley was some glorified temporary consultant in his final months, just hanging around because the Pegulas have no idea what they're doing, and didn't want to fire GM and HC and be alone in making the next decision. Thus, Rex got canned, Whaley helps them pick McD, McD helps them replace Whaley with Beane. 

 

It's too convoluted. And not that interesting. Just actually start getting W's on the field McBeane and this will sort itself out. Because this relationship won't be so peaches if they don't put a good product on the field.

Edited July 18, 2019 by BarkleyForGOATBackupPT5P

[MJS]

2 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Because McDermott Gave his friend a job. 

1) they didn’t let the last GM hire his own coaches.

 

2). They hired the coach before the GM.  There’s a reason why no good teams operate like this. There’s no way Beane can fire McDermott.  

 

I think the evidence so far is in their favor. Playoffs in year 1. Bad contracts and underperforming players gone. Cap fixed (although some of it was obviously their doing as they tried to rebuild the team), a top 5 defense including a very good secondary. Young pieces to build around including Milano, Edmunds, White, Foster, Allen, etc.

 

There's a reason many fans are excited and the Bills have been getting positive national attention this off-season. It's not just all smoke and mirrors. There are some tangible reasons to be optimistic.

[Mr. WEO]

Jeez, bros...get a room!

 

But they need wins or the bromance will fade quickly.  Bilss have won countless off-seasons in the past 10 years....

 

 

Edited July 18, 2019 by Mr. WEO

[Bing Bong]

I don't think them being really tight is the end all be all. I'd prefer if they were both really good at their respective jobs (and maybe they are). It should be expected that you get people that can work together so the question is.. what happens if one of them is not as competent as the other? If the team misfires these next few years, I do want to be able to distinguish the respective talent from Beane and McDermott. There could very well be a scenario where one is doing a bangup job, maybe McDermott coaches up a great record with some clear deficiencies in the roster.. maybe Beane gives McDermott a fantastic roster that he can't deliver with.

 

I want them to work well together. I don't want them joined at the hip. I just hope if the Pegulas were to make a major decision to shake things up, they do not sack both and lose a premium talent, keep both and maybe settle for less. I hope they evaluate the two's respective abilities at every level and understand that you absolutely can keep, for example, Beane if he's terrific, and look at available coaches that might be a better fit to maximize what's on the roster. If Beane understands how the GM and coaching staff relationship should work, with mutual respect, then the "I know how to work well with people" quoted here should just as easily be applied to hiring other coaches that meet his low bar for being a easy to work with and could be the key.

 

And that's just an example. Vice versa for coach and GM. Simply the bar for they're easy to work with nature isn't necessarily a rare commodity in the league. But talent certainly is.

8 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

Jeez, bros...get a room!

 

But they need wins or the bromance will fade quickly.  Bilss have won countless off-seasons in the past 10 years....

 

 

The process may last several more years. Ya just gotta trust it.

[Mr. WEO]

12 minutes ago, BarkleyForGOATBackupPT5P said:

I don't think them being really tight is the end all be all. I'd prefer if they were both really good at their respective jobs (and maybe they are). It should be expected that you get people that can work together so the question is.. what happens if one of them is not as competent as the other? If the team misfires these next few years, I do want to be able to distinguish the respective talent from Beane and McDermott. There could very well be a scenario where one is doing a bangup job, maybe McDermott coaches up a great record with some clear deficiencies in the roster.. maybe Beane gives McDermott a fantastic roster that he can't deliver with.

 

I want them to work well together. I don't want them joined at the hip. I just hope if the Pegulas were to make a major decision to shake things up, they do not sack both and lose a premium talent, keep both and maybe settle for less. I hope they evaluate the two's respective abilities at every level and understand that you absolutely can keep, for example, Beane if he's terrific, and look at available coaches that might be a better fit to maximize what's on the roster. If Beane understands how the GM and coaching staff relationship should work, with mutual respect, then the "I know how to work well with people" quoted here should just as easily be applied to hiring other coaches that meet his low bar for being a easy to work with and could be the key.

 

And that's just an example. Vice versa for coach and GM. Simply the bar for they're easy to work with nature isn't necessarily a rare commodity in the league. But talent certainly is.

The process may last several more years. Ya just gotta trust it.

 

That's been the mantra since Marv retired as HC...

 

They don't have several more years if we accept now that they have stocked the team with talent.  At least McD doesn't.

[BillsFan17]

To me it boils down to agreeing on the QB. From there, everything else kind of falls in place. 

[Bing Bong]

48 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

That's been the mantra since Marv retired as HC...

 

They don't have several more years if we accept now that they have stocked the team with talent.  At least McD doesn't.

That will most certainly be Beane's fall back rhetoric if the season doesn't pan out. Process is still going and he said to trust it.

 

Nope not going to "trust" your indefinitely long "process" Beane, show me results within a reasonable time table. 

[Bing Bong]

9 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

It's similar to how the Jets have assembled their FO.

 

They got ripped for it by the NY media the way it all went down but have since hired some pretty highly thought of personnel guys.

 

 

yea I still think we'd have heard more about it in the national media with the Giants.

 

I mean they're getting blasted for different reasons, but the whole catastrophe would have been covered to the world. Very few NFL teams that get that sort of treatment.

 

Doesn't mean it can't go well. But the optics simply didn't look good for the Pegula's ownership or the Jets ownership.

[C.Biscuit97]

15 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

It's similar to how the Jets have assembled their FO.

 

They got ripped for it by the NY media the way it all went down but have since hired some pretty highly thought of personnel guys.

 

 

Yup.  We’ll get called haters (though I used to get called a homer so get confused) but it’s the truth.  Fans get made that we get ignored by the national media (I mean we have been pretty irreverent and if the Bills are ever good we get a ton of love) but if we were in NYC (really NJ) or LA, we would have been ripped apart for that hiring process.  

 

Mans the funny thing is the Jets essentially have the same team as us.  We just are under the radar, which is good in this case.

4 minutes ago, BarkleyForGOATBackupPT5P said:

yea I still think we'd have heard more about it in the national media with the Giants.

 

I mean they're getting blasted for different reasons, but the whole catastrophe would have been covered to the world. Very few NFL teams that get that sort of treatment.

 

Doesn't mean it can't go well. But the optics simply didn't look good for the Pegula's ownership or the Jets ownership.

And at the same point, if either team wins, no one will care.  But such an untraditional way of hiring will leave you open to a lot of second guessing if you fail.