Bleeding Bills Blue Posted July 18, 2019 Posted July 18, 2019 1 hour ago, Happy Gilmore said: Joe, in all fairness, look who the coaches were. Whaley, was definitely hamstrung here. Anyway, water under the bridge and I'm rooting for Beane and McD to succeed because I want the Bills to win a SB in my lifetime. QB purgatory... He was willing to make a big move to move up for Watkins. But he never made a move to acquire a QB. Alex Smith was available that 2013 offseason - KC nabbed him for a 2nd... we traded down in the 1st and spent our 1st rounder on EJ Manuel...
SoTier Posted July 18, 2019 Posted July 18, 2019 39 minutes ago, Happy Gilmore said: I saw the post above. On paper, I agree that this 2019 team is better, but they have not played a game so there is still a lot to determine. Without a doubt the financial position is much better right now. It is believed that Jim Overdorf handled the contracts, not Whaley. Whaley appeared to be adrift and aimless because the Bills definition of a GM was adrift and aimless. The Bills' definition of a GM was to do the bidding of the bean counters in the Bills organization dedicated to putting profits before wins. That has blatantly been the way it's been with the Bills at least since Russ Brandon took over the team, but it was always the way Ralph Wilson ran the team, too. With Brandon gone, maybe that changes under Pegula and Beane but I'll believe it when I see it. I really don't give a damn about the Bills' supposed "financial position" because It's not actually about the team's balance sheet but about the team's cap situation. Dead cap money is simply on paper, and the Bills were more than happy to trade big cap $$ for not having to pay big actual $$ since Beane became GM. Scrubs and rookies cost a whole lot less than proven veterans, and the Bills had one of the lowest, if not the lowest, actual player salary totals in the NFL in 2018 -- and they played like it. Beane has filled the 2019 roster with unproven youngsters on rookie contracts, a small handful of pricey vets, and the rest JAGs. It doesn't seem like a formula for building a perennial playoff contender much less a legitimate Super Bowl team unless lightning strikes and all those younger players on rookie contracts suddenly blossom into top notch players.
Bleeding Bills Blue Posted July 18, 2019 Posted July 18, 2019 6 minutes ago, SoTier said: The Bills' definition of a GM was to do the bidding of the bean counters in the Bills organization dedicated to putting profits before wins. That has blatantly been the way it's been with the Bills at least since Russ Brandon took over the team, but it was always the way Ralph Wilson ran the team, too. With Brandon gone, maybe that changes under Pegula and Beane but I'll believe it when I see it. I really don't give a damn about the Bills' supposed "financial position" because It's not actually about the team's balance sheet but about the team's cap situation. Dead cap money is simply on paper, and the Bills were more than happy to trade big cap $$ for not having to pay big actual $$ since Beane became GM. Scrubs and rookies cost a whole lot less than proven veterans, and the Bills had one of the lowest, if not the lowest, actual player salary totals in the NFL in 2018 -- and they played like it. Beane has filled the 2019 roster with unproven youngsters on rookie contracts, a small handful of pricey vets, and the rest JAGs. It doesn't seem like a formula for building a perennial playoff contender much less a legitimate Super Bowl team unless lightning strikes and all those younger players on rookie contracts suddenly blossom into top notch players. I think moving those deals had more about flexibility moving forward. We weren't a playoff team with those players on the roster - moving them gives the team the ability to re-sign players without having to gut your team. The core was not successful, so why continue to try and use it. Blow it up and start over. 1
Rico Posted July 18, 2019 Posted July 18, 2019 2 hours ago, Joe in Winslow said: Look everyone, it's Biscuit's #1 fallacy. Those rosters were SO strong, what was their best record? They were strongly loaded with losers and chumps. 4
BADOLBILZ Posted July 18, 2019 Posted July 18, 2019 On 7/17/2019 at 5:45 PM, Devilmann said: Let their contracts play out I think McBeane deserves that. What’s one year after dealing with all the other garbage gm and coaches that have been here. Last season was garbage. 1 1
BADOLBILZ Posted July 18, 2019 Posted July 18, 2019 On 7/17/2019 at 5:38 PM, ScottLaw said: If the Bills go 6-10 McBeane should be goners. I managed to tune in to WGR today just as Bills employee Sal Cappaccio was saying he expected the team to be not just "in the hunt" in November but also possibly in control of their own destiny in week 15 or 16. So even those professionally inclined to be reserved with their predictions think this team should win with the free reign McBeane have had over this organization. 6-10 *could* get them fired if it happens in a certain way that reflects very poorly on them. But there is so much room for improvement after having a -100+ point differential ...........there should be a ton of areas that the team improves in that McBeane could point to in their defense...........even if they go 6-10.........because they played more like a 4-5 win team last year. 1
Devilmann Posted July 18, 2019 Posted July 18, 2019 1 hour ago, BADOLBILZ said: Last season was garbage. EVERYONE knew and expected garbage so get out of here with that garbage 1
C.Biscuit97 Posted July 19, 2019 Posted July 19, 2019 2 hours ago, Rico said: They were strongly loaded with losers and chumps. Nailed again! What has Darby and Bradham ever won? Oh wait. What good teams has Sammy ever played on? Oh. What about that loser Hogan? Oh no. And don’t get started on that chump Robert Woods? Clearly those guys were holding the Bills back!!! 2 2
mannc Posted July 19, 2019 Posted July 19, 2019 53 minutes ago, Devilmann said: EVERYONE knew and expected garbage so get out of here with that garbage Yeah, sure...just like EVERYONE knew it would take McDermott at least four years to turn around a team that was .500 under Rex Ryan... 2 1
LSHMEAB Posted July 19, 2019 Posted July 19, 2019 On 7/17/2019 at 4:44 PM, SoTier said: Has he? He spent a fortune in draft picks and talent to get Allen, and if the Bills go 6-10, without serious injuries to key players then it's probably because Allen hasn't grown into a franchise QB as hoped for -- and isn't likely to develop into more than a modest mid/low level starting QB. The Bills have had several of those over the last 2 decades. He's also spent more draft capital trading up in both his drafts, so unless those picks prove out this season, then he didn't get much for the extra investment. Except for Morse, none of his FA or trade acquisitions have been impressive. Some, like Benjamin, have been terrible. He over paid for mediocre talent like Lotulelei, and we're still waiting to see if Murphy can regain his pre-injury form. That's exactly where I'm at. His FA acquisitions have not been good. Period. I get it. They chose to rebuild. But I expect to see serious progress this season. He's made a clear and distinct footprint on this team, so it's his now. If the FA acquisitions pan out and Allen/Edmunds progress, there's reason for optimism. If not, I'll probably lose faith in the process. But that's just me. I need to see it THIS season. 12 minutes ago, mannc said: Yeah, sure...just like EVERYONE knew it would take McDermott at least four years to turn around a team that was .500 under Rex Ryan... Revisionism is a "heck" of a drug. Results in 2019 should be EXPECTED. 2
Rico Posted July 19, 2019 Posted July 19, 2019 14 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said: Nailed again! What has Darby and Bradham ever won? Oh wait. What good teams has Sammy ever played on? Oh. What about that loser Hogan? Oh no. And don’t get started on that chump Robert Woods? Clearly those guys were holding the Bills back!!! Fun fact: Did you know EJ had better stats his rookie year than Josh Allen?
C.Biscuit97 Posted July 19, 2019 Posted July 19, 2019 Just now, Rico said: Fun fact: Did you know EJ had better stats his rookie year than Josh Allen? ?
Doc Posted July 19, 2019 Posted July 19, 2019 Didn't SI have the Bills picking 7th overall? I guess they had to justify that idiocy with more.
formerlyofCtown Posted July 19, 2019 Posted July 19, 2019 (edited) 15 hours ago, SoTier said: This is simply untrue since Allen, Edmunds, Oliver, and the other Beane draft picks haven't proven how good they actually are. This roster isn't even as talented as the one that McDermott inherited in 2017 and immediately started dismantling. Most of the supposed veteran talent on this team is mediocre, and the young talent is largely unproven. Only White and perhaps Milano have shown themselves above average NFL players. How come you conveniently chose "the last fifteen years"? Oh, yeah, because in the 2004 draft Tom Donahoe traded Dallas the Bills' 2005 first round pick for the Cowboys' first rounder to take JP Losman. That doesn't fit your story line, of course, because Losman busted, and you don't wish to raise that idea in your defense of this regime. As for FA signings, maybe if McDermott and Beane hadn't chosen to strip away so much talent, they wouldn't have been forced to overpay for mediocrity and could have spent their money on better FAs. If "the proof is in the pudding", what has Beane proven exactly? That he can gamble a lot of draft capital on relatively few prospects with big question marks? If Allen has a HOF type career, then Beane got him cheap. Anything less, and he paid way too much --- including Watkins. The Bills last won a playoff game in 1995, twenty five years ago. Since then the Bills have had 5 winning seasons and 3 playoff appearances. Between 1970 and 1994, twenty five seasons, the Bills had 10 winning seasons, 6 of them between 1988 and 1993 under Polian and Levy. Dude. With Watkins he basically got something for nothing. Watkins was not going to be a Bill after that season. Have you seen what was given for RG3, I believe Goff was pretty pricey. I dont get people like you, you B**** about not having a QB. You B**** about not going after a QB and you B**** when they do. You do realize they didnt give up a first for Allen right. They swapped first and gave up some seconds. If he becomes a HOFer then a good value trade becomes the steal of the century. Edited July 19, 2019 by formerlyofCtown 2
BubbaT Posted July 19, 2019 Posted July 19, 2019 15 hours ago, SoTier said: This is simply untrue since Allen, Edmunds, Oliver, and the other Beane draft picks haven't proven how good they actually are. This roster isn't even as talented as the one that McDermott inherited in 2017 and immediately started dismantling. Most of the supposed veteran talent on this team is mediocre, and the young talent is largely unproven. Only White and perhaps Milano have shown themselves above average NFL players. How come you conveniently chose "the last fifteen years"? Oh, yeah, because in the 2004 draft Tom Donahoe traded Dallas the Bills' 2005 first round pick for the Cowboys' first rounder to take JP Losman. That doesn't fit your story line, of course, because Losman busted, and you don't wish to raise that idea in your defense of this regime. As for FA signings, maybe if McDermott and Beane hadn't chosen to strip away so much talent, they wouldn't have been forced to overpay for mediocrity and could have spent their money on better FAs. If "the proof is in the pudding", what has Beane proven exactly? That he can gamble a lot of draft capital on relatively few prospects with big question marks? If Allen has a HOF type career, then Beane got him cheap. Anything less, and he paid way too much --- including Watkins. The Bills last won a playoff game in 1995, twenty five years ago. Since then the Bills have had 5 winning seasons and 3 playoff appearances. Between 1970 and 1994, twenty five seasons, the Bills had 10 winning seasons, 6 of them between 1988 and 1993 under Polian and Levy. And absolutely none of that has any effect on the 2019 season. None of it. 1
Rocket94 Posted July 19, 2019 Posted July 19, 2019 (edited) Good. Let them continue to underestimate the Bills. The usual...all we can do is prove them wrong. Even when the Bills are winning, they still find something to gripe about. Edited July 20, 2019 by Rocket94
Locomark Posted July 19, 2019 Posted July 19, 2019 I would love to see the methods some of these guys use. How does someone write for SI and consistently give teams certain records and then in the commentary say he is probably under or overvaluing them? Either have convictions about your picks and your methods or find another line of work. This is what is wrong with the new wave of sports journalism. Its short on real content. 1
BADOLBILZ Posted July 19, 2019 Posted July 19, 2019 17 hours ago, mannc said: Yeah, sure...just like EVERYONE knew it would take McDermott at least four years to turn around a team that was .500 under Rex Ryan... "This roster needs to be seriously overhauled"...........said no one when Rex was fired. McBeane created that narrative from scratch..........much to the delight of SB contending teams all around the NFL. Same with the salary cap nonsense..........Beane in an interview the other day said that he "warned" The Pegs it would take "2-3 years" to clean up the salary cap "mess".........and then patted himself on the back for getting it done in just 2.? The guy created the LARGEST AMOUNT OF DEAD MONEY by one team in one offseason in NFL history!...........OF COURSE he totally re-set the Bills cap in 2 offseasons. Hilarious. The Bills salary cap issues were relatively minor........they still had average money to spend in FA and they always figured to have plenty of extra cap space in 2019-2020 when the old men McCoy/Wood/Clay type contracts would surely all be off the books. But somehow ended up having to replace all of Nix and Whaley's remaining top picks(except Shaq!) AND doubled down on Wood and McCoy and lost. I hope these guys make it but if not expect a lot more of that kind of manipulating of the truth from McBeane as they try to buy more time to learn from their mistakes. 4 2
DuckyBoys Posted July 19, 2019 Posted July 19, 2019 I'd love to see some conviction behind these picks NFL has turnover every year yet I see no surprise teams moving up and no top teams sliding down in their picks. They just regurgitated the 2018 standings with a minor tweak or two.
SirAndrew Posted July 20, 2019 Posted July 20, 2019 On 7/18/2019 at 8:11 PM, C.Biscuit97 said: Nailed again! What has Darby and Bradham ever won? Oh wait. What good teams has Sammy ever played on? Oh. What about that loser Hogan? Oh no. And don’t get started on that chump Robert Woods? Clearly those guys were holding the Bills back!!! Woods is the only player out of those guys I’d want on the current roster. Otherwise, I’d take what we have over any of those guys. Darby, Bradham, and Hogan are all meh, while Watkins injuries never allow him to live up to his potential. Being on a good team and being responsible for its success are not synonymous. 1
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