Devilmann Posted July 18, 2019 Posted July 18, 2019 5 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said: Why? What did giving Jauron and Gailey extra time give us? Honestly, if it wasn’t for a fluke playoff berth (which we as fans deserved), there has been a bunch of bad football their first 2 years. i swear a regime has never been given as much of a pass as them. People love to hate on Whaley but his rosters after 3 years was stronger than this current roster after 3 years, minus Josh Allen turning into a franchise qb. Our offense has been brutal and for some reasons, fans just ignore it because McBeane are nice guys. Yeah, I don’t get why fans get mad about this. Would we have picked the Browns to be good the last 15 years? The Bills have been the feisty team that doesn’t have a ton of talent, crappy qbs that scrap their way to 6-9 wins. I’m not giving them a pass. Me personally I’ve like who they have drafted and I can see what they are trying to build. I’m sick of trading coaches every 2 years and the players are having to learn a new system every year it’s not good for the players or us as a fan base. Are they perfect? No no one is. I’m sick of constantly having backup quarterbacks like Tyrod and Fitz and the rest of the clowns we’ve had here for the past 20 years. This regime made it happen for us to have a really good qb prospect and they will live or die by how he works out but at least give it three years. If we still suck fine fire them oh well but give it a fair chance. 1
4merper4mer Posted July 18, 2019 Posted July 18, 2019 (edited) 12 hours ago, ScottLaw said: Well the OP posted an SI article that predicts 6-10. If that's what actually happens they should be fired. Why do they deserve that? They should also be fired if they have surreptitiously used their jobs as cover for their actual identities as a team of serial killers. Let me ask, if the Bills were to go 6-10 but do so after all 53 guys are injured and out for the year after the first preseason game will your opinion stay the same? I know mine will not change. If they are a team of serial killers they should be fired regardless of any excuse they have. Edited July 18, 2019 by 4merper4mer
BuffaloBaumer Posted July 18, 2019 Posted July 18, 2019 Beane is the ONE person i have the most confidence in on both Bills and Sabres organizations. How could anybody even consider getting rid of him?
SoTier Posted July 18, 2019 Posted July 18, 2019 11 hours ago, H2o said: We just had the best two offseasons we have put back to back in about 15 years. We have the most talented roster we've had in about 15 years. They won't be 6-10 unless we have injuries at key positions. The talk of firing everyone off of a hypothetical SI article is laughable. This is simply untrue since Allen, Edmunds, Oliver, and the other Beane draft picks haven't proven how good they actually are. This roster isn't even as talented as the one that McDermott inherited in 2017 and immediately started dismantling. Most of the supposed veteran talent on this team is mediocre, and the young talent is largely unproven. Only White and perhaps Milano have shown themselves above average NFL players. 11 hours ago, Bills2ref said: Yes, he absolutely has. What’s a better offseason that you can remember in the last 15 years than the two Beane has orchestrated? Prior regimes did not give a bunch of draft picks to go and get their guy, they waited and panicked (Losman) or they reached massively (Manuel). Going up and getting their guy would have been giving up whatever it took to get Rothlisberger rather than panicking and getting Losman. By all reports that’s what happened to Arizona last year as well, how did Rosen work out in their minds? The free agent signings, that’s the nature of the free agent game, you overpay for mediocre talent. Beane identified holes and moved to fill them. What past GM’s have done that? I remember being able to sleep through free agency because you knew the Bills were getting bargain bin trash. In addition to that, most of these contracts are crafted so that the Bills can exit relatively painlessly. How was the Dareus contract structured? Don’t we wish Beane was at the helm during that time. In general, the proof is often in the pudding. For my money, Beane has done his job. He has filled holes as best he can and as economically as available. He has drafted well and is not afraid to go up and grab someone he wants. Give me Beane over A LOT of the GM’s in the league right now (Gettlemen running the Giants anyone?). In addition, even if Allen busts and doesn’t improve any further, he is still the most fun QB we have had the pleasure of watching in a long, long time. How come you conveniently chose "the last fifteen years"? Oh, yeah, because in the 2004 draft Tom Donahoe traded Dallas the Bills' 2005 first round pick for the Cowboys' first rounder to take JP Losman. That doesn't fit your story line, of course, because Losman busted, and you don't wish to raise that idea in your defense of this regime. As for FA signings, maybe if McDermott and Beane hadn't chosen to strip away so much talent, they wouldn't have been forced to overpay for mediocrity and could have spent their money on better FAs. If "the proof is in the pudding", what has Beane proven exactly? That he can gamble a lot of draft capital on relatively few prospects with big question marks? 10 hours ago, formerlyofCtown said: He spent less for Allen than we spent for Watkins IMO If Allen has a HOF type career, then Beane got him cheap. Anything less, and he paid way too much --- including Watkins. 9 hours ago, BubbaT said: Yep the Bills have only existed for the past 19 years. No history at all prior to that. No experiences somewhat similar to how it looks going in to camp. You told me you grizzled vet you. The Bills last won a playoff game in 1995, twenty five years ago. Since then the Bills have had 5 winning seasons and 3 playoff appearances. Between 1970 and 1994, twenty five seasons, the Bills had 10 winning seasons, 6 of them between 1988 and 1993 under Polian and Levy. 1 2
Tatonka68 Posted July 18, 2019 Posted July 18, 2019 (edited) 2018 Bills went with 6-10 with no offensive line, bad WR's, a rookie QB. Bills add offensive line talent, add WR's, Allen now has experience with an easier schedule and SI predicts the exact same record ??? If Allen is a litle better than the Bills should be 8-8. If Allen makes a bigger jump the Bills should be 10-6. If Allen surprises and is what we want him to be the Bills should be 12-4 EAST Divisional Champs. Edited July 18, 2019 by Tatonka68 1 1
klos63 Posted July 18, 2019 Posted July 18, 2019 14 hours ago, H2o said: We just had the best two offseasons we have put back to back in about 15 years. We have the most talented roster we've had in about 15 years. They won't be 6-10 unless we have injuries at key positions. The talk of firing everyone off of a hypothetical SI article is laughable. Our offensive line is unproven. Beane only saw fit to make a long term commitment to 1 player. All the rest could easily be gone next season. If he hit on all of them , we'll be a strong team. If not, likely more of the same.
PetermansRedemption Posted July 18, 2019 Posted July 18, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, SoTier said: This is simply untrue since Allen, Edmunds, Oliver, and the other Beane draft picks haven't proven how good they actually are. This roster isn't even as talented as the one that McDermott inherited in 2017 and immediately started dismantling. Most of the supposed veteran talent on this team is mediocre, and the young talent is largely unproven. Only White and perhaps Milano have shown themselves above average NFL players. How come you conveniently chose "the last fifteen years"? Oh, yeah, because in the 2004 draft Tom Donahoe traded Dallas the Bills' 2005 first round pick for the Cowboys' first rounder to take JP Losman. That doesn't fit your story line, of course, because Losman busted, and you don't wish to raise that idea in your defense of this regime. Reading comprehension I.E the very next sentence after the one you bolded. Also, I consider 2004 to be within the past 15 years ? ? Edited July 18, 2019 by Bills2ref 1
GreggTX Posted July 18, 2019 Posted July 18, 2019 (edited) If we go 6-10, we drafted the wrong QB. I think a lot of people feel like we'll win 10 or more games because we signed so many FA's, but nearly all the FA's we signed were not even starters or starter quality. Only a couple of them were even above average (Beasley, Morse). We're a very average team talent-wise. It really does come down to Josh Allen. Is he going to take us to the next level or just be the next Bills bust at QB in a long line of busts at QB. Edited July 18, 2019 by GreggTX 1 1
PromoTheRobot Posted July 18, 2019 Posted July 18, 2019 (edited) 19 hours ago, Just Joshin' said: Plenty to disagree with here. https://www.si.com/nfl/2019/07/17/nfl-schedule-2019-team-record-predictions He has the Bills going 6-10 but had one scenario where they win 10 games. Sounds like the first round did not align to his world view/bias so he had to find games to change. In grand scheme, means nothing but a time killer while waiting for camp to open. So the completely revamped roster with more talent at O-line and WR, the same top line D with a stud rookie, plus the consistency of the same Bills regime in year three, playing an easier schedule, will be no better than the bums we cobbled together last year under a rookie QB who wasn't supposed to start? Hmmmm...make sense to me. Edited July 18, 2019 by PromoTheRobot
SoTier Posted July 18, 2019 Posted July 18, 2019 13 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said: So the completely revamped roster with more talent at O-line and WR, the same top line D with a stud rookie, plus the consistency of the same Bills regime in year three, playing an easier schedule, will be no better than the bums we cobbled together last year under a rookie QB who wasn't supposed to start? Hmmmm...make sense to me. The "more talent at O-line and WR" should make those units at least NFL-caliber in 2019. That doesn't mean they'll be good or even average, just that they won't be nearly as poor as they were last season because for the most part, the Bills didn't sign top caliber OLers or WRs. Moreover, there's no guarantee that Allen improves enough to make him a competent QB. Trent Edwards was a well spoken, respectful hard working bust. So was Nathan Peterman (which is really hard for a fifth rounder, but the Bills tried to make him into something he couldn't be and he failed, ergo, a bust). Also, don't forget that the Bills opponents also added talent to their rosters, some significantly. 1
C.Biscuit97 Posted July 18, 2019 Posted July 18, 2019 Whaley’s roster after 3 years: https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/buf/2015_roster.htm McBeane after 3 years: https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/buf/2018_roster.htm which team wins head to head?
Never NEVER Give-up Posted July 18, 2019 Posted July 18, 2019 20 hours ago, Just Joshin' said: Plenty to disagree with here. https://www.si.com/nfl/2019/07/17/nfl-schedule-2019-team-record-predictions He has the Bills going 6-10 but had one scenario where they win 10 games. Sounds like the first round did not align to his world view/bias so he had to find games to change. In grand scheme, means nothing but a time killer while waiting for camp to open. LOL, yeah, then he says that the winnable games were at the beginning of the season against the Jets-Giants-Bengals and Skins . . . so are we to believe those are the 4 "wins" he converted to "Losses" so our record would go from 10-6 to 6-10? That means we start 0-3 and face the Pats in wk 4 (we face Skins around wk 8).
PromoTheRobot Posted July 18, 2019 Posted July 18, 2019 52 minutes ago, SoTier said: The "more talent at O-line and WR" should make those units at least NFL-caliber in 2019. That doesn't mean they'll be good or even average, just that they won't be nearly as poor as they were last season because for the most part, the Bills didn't sign top caliber OLers or WRs. Moreover, there's no guarantee that Allen improves enough to make him a competent QB. Trent Edwards was a well spoken, respectful hard working bust. So was Nathan Peterman (which is really hard for a fifth rounder, but the Bills tried to make him into something he couldn't be and he failed, ergo, a bust). Also, don't forget that the Bills opponents also added talent to their rosters, some significantly. Okay, Eeyore.
Bleeding Bills Blue Posted July 18, 2019 Posted July 18, 2019 I want to believe - but man... 15 wins in 2 years, 3 against teams with winning records and 2 against playoff teams. You gotta win those games to get in, so it remains to be seen whether we can. And a lot of the losses have been absolute beat-downs. A lot of it is talent, so hopefully we bridged that gap. At the end of the day it comes down to offense. By yardage measure we have had a bottom 5 offense, a bottom 3 passing offense, and last season we even had a bottom 3 offense from a giveaway perspective (peterman!!!!). If we can go from 4700 yards to something resembling 5700 (around league average), thats about 60 yards per game. Beasley helps move the chains - more plays=more yards. Brown adding another home run threat should help. Fixing the line should buy allen time, and open up lanes for the backs. They need to add 1000+ yards this season for it to make a big difference. Getting the PPG closer to league average of around 23 would be good too. We had a terrible offense from an efficiency standpoint. Need more 1st downs, need better execution expecially on short distances and in red zone. Singletery and gore should help there, in addition to the new guys on the oline. If we can approach 6000 yards of offense, and around 23+ points per game on offense... with this defense... we should be a playoff team. 1
Bleeding Bills Blue Posted July 18, 2019 Posted July 18, 2019 48 minutes ago, Never NEVER Give-up said: LOL, yeah, then he says that the winnable games were at the beginning of the season against the Jets-Giants-Bengals and Skins . . . so are we to believe those are the 4 "wins" he converted to "Losses" so our record would go from 10-6 to 6-10? That means we start 0-3 and face the Pats in wk 4 (we face Skins around wk 8). Theres a tough stretch of Cowboys, Ravens, Steelers. Adding in the Browns (who people are high on), the Eagles (who are usually good), 2 against NE, and 2 against NYJ - its a tough schedule. You have to win a few of these games. Dallas is a thanksgiving game so that is just... a tough one to predict. Ravens absolutely beat us up the last 2 times we played so hopefully players bring it in that one as its at home. Pittsburghs roster just doesn't scare me at all, i think they look like a .500 team. To make the playoffs you need to win all of these MIA x2 NYJ x1 NYG Cinn Tenn Wash Den Pitt and at least 1 of NE x2, Cle, Phi, Dal, Balt, NYJ -- 2 to make sure. But the chargers and chiefs look legit - so they'll probably both be in. You have Houston who's usually good, and Indy looked really solid last year - add in Tenn and Jax too. NE is pretty much a lock. Ravens, steelers, browns probably only looking at 1 spot there too. 10-6 isn't a shoo-in so you probably want 11 wins. 1
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted July 18, 2019 Posted July 18, 2019 20 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said: People love to hate on Whaley but his rosters after 3 years was stronger than this current roster after 3 years Look everyone, it's Biscuit's #1 fallacy. Those rosters were SO strong, what was their best record?
Happy Posted July 18, 2019 Posted July 18, 2019 11 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said: Look everyone, it's Biscuit's #1 fallacy. Those rosters were SO strong, what was their best record? Joe, in all fairness, look who the coaches were. Whaley, was definitely hamstrung here. Anyway, water under the bridge and I'm rooting for Beane and McD to succeed because I want the Bills to win a SB in my lifetime. 1
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted July 18, 2019 Posted July 18, 2019 Just now, Happy Gilmore said: Joe, in all fairness, look who the coaches were. Whaley, was definitely hamstrung here. Anyway, water under the bridge and I'm rooting for Beane and McD to succeed because I want the Bills to win a SB in my lifetime. He makes the mistake of thinking that overpaid players are good players. I argue the talent on this team IS superior, and so is the team's flexibility and financial position. Whaley was like a boat without a rudder. Adrift and aimless. 2
Happy Posted July 18, 2019 Posted July 18, 2019 3 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said: He makes the mistake of thinking that overpaid players are good players. I argue the talent on this team IS superior, and so is the team's flexibility and financial position. Whaley was like a boat without a rudder. Adrift and aimless. I saw the post above. On paper, I agree that this 2019 team is better, but they have not played a game so there is still a lot to determine. Without a doubt the financial position is much better right now. It is believed that Jim Overdorf handled the contracts, not Whaley. Whaley appeared to be adrift and aimless because the Bills definition of a GM was adrift and aimless.
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