Jrb1979 Posted July 16, 2019 Posted July 16, 2019 Whenever I go to a Sabres game, I have never had any issues getting out of downtown after the game. Putting the Bills downtown shouldn't be an issue. If they upgrade the metro rail it will help.
PromoTheRobot Posted July 16, 2019 Author Posted July 16, 2019 8 minutes ago, Jrb1979 said: Whenever I go to a Sabres game, I have never had any issues getting out of downtown after the game. Putting the Bills downtown shouldn't be an issue. If they upgrade the metro rail it will help. Again, Buffalo is a city of 250K. Cities 5 to 10 times larger have downtown stadiums and don't implode. They can make it work. 1
Chicharito Posted July 16, 2019 Posted July 16, 2019 With the skyway contest actually being a real thing. The stadium is going downtown. Something new will be replacing the skyway.
billsfanmiami(oh) Posted July 16, 2019 Posted July 16, 2019 2 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said: It's a light rail/subway that runs from the arena to UB North campus. It's just one line though they talk about adding more forever. But it's free riding above ground so I usually park by Fountain Square and ride to the arena, then ride back. Is it crowded? Sure, but so is any large event. A little planning solves a lot of problems. See above. Go out of my way coming from the South? Just because it works for you, doesn’t mean it works for everyone else. And just because other “big cities” have downtown stadiums with no traffic issues (which isn’t true anyways), doesn’t mean the same holds true for Buffalo. 2
PromoTheRobot Posted July 16, 2019 Author Posted July 16, 2019 19 minutes ago, billsfanmiami(oh) said: Go out of my way coming from the South? Just because it works for you, doesn’t mean it works for everyone else. And just because other “big cities” have downtown stadiums with no traffic issues (which isn’t true anyways), doesn’t mean the same holds true for Buffalo. So driving a few blocks north of the arena to find easy, sometimes even free, parking, doesn't work for you? Okay. But saying Buffalo is somehow so different from other cities doesn't make it so. There is nothing unusual about Buffalo from a roads or crowding perspective.
Cynical Posted July 16, 2019 Posted July 16, 2019 2 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said: Then how on Earth does every other city with a downtown stadium manage to exist? Some cities have two stadiums and an arena downtown. What keeps Cleveland from sinking into Lake Erie putting all three downtown? What is it about downtown Buffalo that makes it so unusable as a stadium site? Was there a transportation crisis when they built Pilot Field? You definitely fall into the "build some parking decks and widen a couple of roads. Eazy peazy" mentality. You trying to equate the issues of Pilot Field (17k seating) and KeyBank (20k seating) to the issues of a 65k seat stadium is stunningly ignorant. Building the stadium is only one part of the problem. Having the infrastructure in place to support it is a completely different issue. Prior to the separate football and baseball stadiums in downtown Cleveland, that city had this building call Cleveland Stadium that had a seating capacity of 80k. Neither of the present stadiums seat that many people. The transition to 2 smaller stadiums was easier when the infrastructure was already in place to handle 80k. Pilot Field did not cause a transportation "crisis" because the Aud already existed. The infrastructure to support a stadium the size of Pilot Field was already in place. The new football stadium will not be 20k. It will be in the 60-65K area. 3 times larger. There is nothing in the downtown area that big now. You think your secret parking area near Fountain Square will still be a secret when an additional 40k people are looking for parking? 2
Saxum Posted July 16, 2019 Posted July 16, 2019 13 hours ago, clearwater cadet said: Just count our blessing Ted Rogers passed before Ralph. it seem once they divided his money by three his son didnt control enough of it to complete the sale. I maybe be wrong, but I always believed Ralph intended to sell to Rogers and move the team to Toronto regardless of what he said. I believe the lesgue wanted it as well. Unfornately I never cared for Ralph as sn owner, just one persons opinion. It is clear that your belief is colored by your opinion of him as owner but that is not unusual. UpChuck Dickerson hated the Bills when he was fired but he still did a show on Bills trying to pass on this opinion to listeners.
May Day 10 Posted July 16, 2019 Posted July 16, 2019 (edited) I think being a city with 250K is a negative and it isn't equipped to move huge volumes of traffic. A number of other downtown venues I have been at, sit right at a convergence of multiple interstates and routes out of there. The lots often empty out right at the bases of onramps. I once watched a simultaneous world series game and a concert flush out of Philly in less than 20 minutes. New Era Field isnt horrible because you have some major 4-lane streets right up against the lots, with plenty of runway before stoplights. Ability to go N, S, E, or W. Let's say hypothetically, you have it Southeast of the Arena. That is further from the 190, which is pretty much the singular route out of there. People get there from a number of narrow, often one-way streets and many stoplights. The parking lots that are there by the arena all empty out on the same "normal" streets that become gridlocked and the holdup flows back into the parking lots themselves. Parking ramp? Hope you packed a midnight snack. To the West you have the lake, and the South a boondoggle of the canal, industrial buildings, and railroad stuff. Getting to 190 to reach the skyway/Rte 5 seems silly as well. I also do not believe that any meaningful metro rail enhancements will be coming in order to move more people a more variety of places. The money they have is going to be spent on maintenance, as well as scouting an extension to UB North. I think it can be done... but would be quite an undertaking, and would need to add exit(s) for the 190, if not change the course of it. Also would need to enhance the roadway availability to the South and East. For Sabres games, many have their tricks they have adapted, but it is still pretty bad for 19K people. I used to park across from Pilot Field where the onramp to 190 was. Now I usually bring a small child and thats a bit of a tough, windy hike in the winter... and also, it seems that pre-game traffic has gotten really bad the past 3 seasons or so, no idea why. Trying to get to Swan St I get caught in traffic. Now I go to Louisianna Street and park either in the Sabres' lots or along Michigan Street. We normally leave early to beat traffic, especially on a weeknight. Edited July 16, 2019 by May Day 10 3
May Day 10 Posted July 16, 2019 Posted July 16, 2019 13 hours ago, clearwater cadet said: Just count our blessing Ted Rogers passed before Ralph. it seem once they divided his money by three his son didnt control enough of it to complete the sale. I maybe be wrong, but I always believed Ralph intended to sell to Rogers and move the team to Toronto regardless of what he said. I believe the lesgue wanted it as well. Unfornately I never cared for Ralph as sn owner, just one persons opinion. I do not believe RW 'intended' to sell the team to Rogers. I believe they were always going to go out for auction on RW's passing. He did not want to get taxed on the sale, then get taxed on the inheritance. I do believe he wanted the infusion of un-shared cash first and foremost, and it also pleased his buddies in the NFL who has/had all the international aspirations. There is the 'regionalization' dream as well. I believe Ted Rogers intended on putting in a bid on the Bills, and this was going to be his foot in the door and dress-rehearsal for Toronto's readiness and eagerness for the NFL. To his surprise, the reception was lukewarm. A nice assist to Bills' mediocrity through the Jauron and Gailey eras. Wilson probably knew this and was fine with it. There was no Terry Pegula on any doppler and the Sabres had 'recently' been sitting there for a year+ without an owner only to be saved by a somewhat 'frugal' billionaire in Golisano. The WNY landscape was a bit bleak as far as bidders go. But yeah, Rogers' passing was large. If that empire was still consolidated and motivated to buy, they could have teamed up with MLSE/Jovi and really gave Pegula a challenge.
PromoTheRobot Posted July 16, 2019 Author Posted July 16, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, Cynical said: You definitely fall into the "build some parking decks and widen a couple of roads. Eazy peazy" mentality. You trying to equate the issues of Pilot Field (17k seating) and KeyBank (20k seating) to the issues of a 65k seat stadium is stunningly ignorant. Building the stadium is only one part of the problem. Having the infrastructure in place to support it is a completely different issue. Prior to the separate football and baseball stadiums in downtown Cleveland, that city had this building call Cleveland Stadium that had a seating capacity of 80k. Neither of the present stadiums seat that many people. The transition to 2 smaller stadiums was easier when the infrastructure was already in place to handle 80k. Pilot Field did not cause a transportation "crisis" because the Aud already existed. The infrastructure to support a stadium the size of Pilot Field was already in place. The new football stadium will not be 20k. It will be in the 60-65K area. 3 times larger. There is nothing in the downtown area that big now. You think your secret parking area near Fountain Square will still be a secret when an additional 40k people are looking for parking? Lol, are you a transportation engineer? Have any studies to quote or just jumping to conclusions? In Orchard Park you have about 4 or 5 roads to access the stadium from. In downtown, you have dozens of streets, not to mention Metro Rail. People will park and walk a few blocks, just like they do now. It's not that tough. Buffalo has had massive groups of people assemble, like in front of city hall after the first Bills Super Bowl. How many people was that? 100K? 200K? The city didn't become paralyzed then and it wouldn't from a football stadium downtown. Edited July 16, 2019 by PromoTheRobot
Boatdrinks Posted July 16, 2019 Posted July 16, 2019 12 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said: Lol, are you a transportation engineer? Have any studies to quote or just jumping to conclusions? In Orchard Park you have about 4 or 5 roads to access the stadium from. In downtown, you have dozens of streets, not to mention Metro Rail. People will park and walk a few blocks, just like the do now. It's not that tough. Buffalo has had massive groups of people assemble, like in front of city hall after the first Bills Super Bowl. How many people was that? 100K? 200K? The city didn't become paralyzed then and it wouldn't from a football stadium downtown. I agree. An estimated 500k descended upon a stretch of Delaware avenue at last weekends taste of Buffalo. Seems a hypothetical downtown stadium could handle 60k or so in an afternoon. I’ve heard that leaving Gillette is something akin to the scene after a concert at Darien Lake. Yet folks manage to go.
clearwater cadet Posted July 16, 2019 Posted July 16, 2019 2 hours ago, Limeaid said: It is clear that your belief is colored by your opinion of him as owner but that is not unusual. UpChuck Dickerson hated the Bills when he was fired but he still did a show on Bills trying to pass on this opinion to listeners. That's true. Like I said, I didn't care for Ralph as an owner, so my opinion is tilted in that direction. I don't expect or need anyone to agree with me. My only hope is the team will remain in Buffalo for many many years, and will win several championships in my life time. 1
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted July 16, 2019 Posted July 16, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, May Day 10 said: I once watched a simultaneous world series game and a concert flush out of Philly in less than 20 minutes. Edited July 16, 2019 by Joe in Winslow
RoyBatty is alive Posted July 16, 2019 Posted July 16, 2019 3 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said: So driving a few blocks north of the arena to find easy, sometimes even free, parking, doesn't work for you? Okay. But saying Buffalo is somehow so different from other cities doesn't make it so. There is nothing unusual about Buffalo from a roads or crowding perspective. Considering that city lies on Lake Erie, unless you are going to boat into downtown, traffic egress in/out of Buffalo is more difficult than most cities 1 hour ago, Boatdrinks said: I agree. An estimated 500k descended upon a stretch of Delaware avenue at last weekends taste of Buffalo. Seems a hypothetical downtown stadium could handle 60k or so in an afternoon. I’ve heard that leaving Gillette is something akin to the scene after a concert at Darien Lake. Yet folks manage to go. Yes but they all didnt arrive within an hour of each other and they all didnt leave at the same time either. It would be like Foxboro.
PromoTheRobot Posted July 16, 2019 Author Posted July 16, 2019 Just now, RoyBatty is alive said: Considering that city lies on Lake Erie, unless you are going to boat into downtown, traffic egress in/out of Buffalo is more difficult than most cities So how do Cleveland, Detroit, Pittsburgh, St.Louis and Chicago manage? All have arenas and stadiums downtown and all are on lakes or rivers. And all are much larger than Buffalo.
Boatdrinks Posted July 16, 2019 Posted July 16, 2019 (edited) 12 minutes ago, RoyBatty is alive said: Considering that city lies on Lake Erie, unless you are going to boat into downtown, traffic egress in/out of Buffalo is more difficult than most cities Yes but they all didnt arrive within an hour of each other and they all didnt leave at the same time either. It would be like Foxboro. Right. Notice I mentioned that 60k or so was but a fraction of that total so it would seem perfectly feasible that a similar size crowd could arrive over a period of several hours ( which Bills games tend to feature) then depart at a more compacted pace. And as I stated, fans make it to Foxboro for games regardless of the traffic being less than ideal. Edited July 16, 2019 by Boatdrinks 1
RoyBatty is alive Posted July 16, 2019 Posted July 16, 2019 1 minute ago, PromoTheRobot said: So how do Cleveland, Detroit, Pittsburgh, St.Louis and Chicago manage? All have arenas and stadiums downtown and all are on lakes or rivers. And all are much larger than Buffalo. I wasnt saying it was just buffalo's issue but Cleveland and Chicago have a very active rail system into downtown, Pittsburgh and St Louis are effectively landlocked, yes they have rivers to cross. Detroit i dont know as well.
Boatdrinks Posted July 16, 2019 Posted July 16, 2019 5 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said: So how do Cleveland, Detroit, Pittsburgh, St.Louis and Chicago manage? All have arenas and stadiums downtown and all are on lakes or rivers. And all are much larger than Buffalo. You will not sway someone who is convinced that NEF provides an “ ideal traffic situation” . While a downtown stadium would likely be more congested than OP, it’s most certainly a workable scenario. Just not a perfect one. As we know, this stadium decision is about revenue generation, not traffic.
May Day 10 Posted July 16, 2019 Posted July 16, 2019 2 minutes ago, RoyBatty is alive said: I wasnt saying it was just buffalo's issue but Cleveland and Chicago have a very active rail system into downtown, Pittsburgh and St Louis are effectively landlocked, yes they have rivers to cross. Detroit i dont know as well. I havent done a Browns game... but Heinz Field, PNC Park, and Progressive Field are all tucked right in with multiple interstates and people can jump right into the arteries. The problem with Buffalo is people need to drive on Exchange St, Michigan St, Swan St, Ohio St, etc including many stoplights to get to an area where they can get on 190N or 190S. Chicago, I know is a huge public transit thing. Been to a few things there. St. Louis, no idea. Detroit, just googled it, and again, tucked in with interstates that will flush everyone out quick 1
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