Gugny Posted July 15, 2019 Author Posted July 15, 2019 43 minutes ago, VADC Bills said: I agree, BB wasn't a winning coach before Brady was starting. Let's not forget BB coached the Brown's and had one winning season. Trust me he wasn't considered a genius until Brady became the starting QB. I think he was considered a genius when he shut down the K-Gun offense and won a super bowl as a DC. And let's not forget that he inherited a pure crap Browns team and led them to a real wild card berth (not having to back in). Trust me. 2
Augie Posted July 15, 2019 Posted July 15, 2019 49 minutes ago, Happy Gilmore said: Well, Brady did say he likes soft balls (no pun intended)...unless he was covering for BB, which is not out of the question. Those two work in tandem. Both could be true. I am surprised used to I used to be.
Mr. WEO Posted July 15, 2019 Posted July 15, 2019 10 hours ago, K-9 said: From ABC news: Zero playoff games
Ol Dirty B Posted July 15, 2019 Posted July 15, 2019 35 minutes ago, Peace Frog said: Belichick, hands down. Bill's defense, drafting, coaching staff, and in-game coaching decisions have just as much to do with the Paytoilets' wins as Brady's offense. Have the Pats really drafted that much better than the Bills? I know people will point to Gronkowski, but I don't think they've drafted that much better than the Bills or anyone in the league. I think as far as trades go they seem to rip everyone off. I'm not sure why anyone trades with them. 11 hours ago, Bills2ref said: Belichick. His record with backup QBs speaks for itself. He went 10-6 with Matt Cassel and wasnt Garrapolo 2-0? 1
Peace Frog Posted July 15, 2019 Posted July 15, 2019 (edited) 35 minutes ago, Ol Dirty B said: Have the Pats really drafted that much better than the Bills? I know people will point to Gronkowski, but I don't think they've drafted that much better than the Bills or anyone in the league. Here. Take a look for yourself. And their trades are also worth mentioning. Randy Moss. Chris Hogan. etc,... Edited July 15, 2019 by Peace Frog
Ol Dirty B Posted July 15, 2019 Posted July 15, 2019 (edited) 28 minutes ago, Peace Frog said: Here. Take a look for yourself. And their trades are also worth mentioning. Randy Moss. Chris Hogan. etc,... Like how you conveniently edit my post where I mention their trades being good... I wouldn't put Chris Hogan on that list. If he didn't have a good playoff game he'd be forgotten. Also that was just a compensation pick, not really a trade... Edited July 15, 2019 by Ol Dirty B
Alphadawg7 Posted July 15, 2019 Posted July 15, 2019 11 hours ago, Gugny said: Agree 100% with all of this. I'll also add that Belichick knows the NFL rules better than anyone on earth - and he uses that knowledge to his advantage. What most people call "cheating," is really just knowing the rules and using them to their benefit. Very True ☝️ Its not really a fair question overall because neither BB or Brady has as much success without the other. It’s really impossible to say who was more important. 1
Gugny Posted July 15, 2019 Author Posted July 15, 2019 12 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said: Very True ☝️ Its not really a fair question overall because neither BB or Brady has as much success without the other. It’s really impossible to say who was more important. It's definitely not black and white. BB being the GM is what sways me toward him. If he was "just the coach," I'd probably go with Brady.
ExiledInIllinois Posted July 15, 2019 Posted July 15, 2019 Belicheat. He enables Brady to cheat and Brady willfully complies. They both cheated. Belicheat is the PEDs and Brady is Barry Bonds.
Peace Frog Posted July 15, 2019 Posted July 15, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, Ol Dirty B said: Like how you conveniently edit my post where I mention their trades being good... I wouldn't put Chris Hogan on that list. If he didn't have a good playoff game he'd be forgotten. Also that was just a compensation pick, not really a trade... Conveniently edit your post? I removed your reply to Bills2ref and must have removed the line above it. I hope you can find it in your heart to forgive my error. Additionally, I would put Chris Hogan on that list. I feel he was a decent receiver that contributed to the Pats success; if Brady didn't trust Chris, he wouldn't have throw him the ball. My point to the original question of is Brady or Belichick more responsible, I say Bill, without a doubt. Anything the Pats dynasty has accomplished has Bill's fingerprints all over it. Think of Bill as The Emperor and Tom as Darth Vader. As good as Brady is, he would not have the same success on a different team. Belichick could get almost as good production from another decent QB. Imagine Bill with Big Ben, Andrew Luck, Pat Mahomes, etc.... Edited July 15, 2019 by Peace Frog
BullBuchanan Posted July 15, 2019 Posted July 15, 2019 14 hours ago, H2o said: I got Brady. How many SB wins do the Pats have without him as the starter? They've only had one crack at it to find out during BB's reign and he went 11-15. I think that's a pretty compelling case. If he was able to trade Brady and keep Jimmy G, I don't think he'd have missed a beat.
papazoid Posted July 15, 2019 Posted July 15, 2019 belichick......leadership, preparations, discipline, managing the salary cap, game plans...taking away the opponents strengths, holding players accountable. team, team, team.....look at his record without brady for those knocking his record at previous teams....he wasn't the GM but having said that.....ever notice the greatest coaches always seem to have a pro bowl level QB.
Clemfield2622 Posted July 15, 2019 Posted July 15, 2019 I chose Belichick. Brady has obviously become one of the all time greats, but I don't think he gets there without Belichick. I still think we only understand a fraction of the cheating they did early in his career that got Brady to this level.
Cripple Creek Posted July 15, 2019 Posted July 15, 2019 7 hours ago, Gugny said: It's definitely not black and white. BB being the GM is what sways me toward him. If he was "just the coach," I'd probably go with Brady. Your logic and that of 71% of the respondents is flawed. Belichick is a great coach. Brady is a great QB. You don't get great coaches WITHOUT great QBs & you don't get dynasties without them either. The question asked is who is more responsible for the dynasty. The answer is obvious, Brady. Without him the pats are just another team with an eccentric HC. With him they are a dynasty. Toss in the fact that he has never held their feet to the fire monetarily and that he has publicly put up with 99% of Bill's crap and you have the NE dynasty. Put Rogers in that situation and tell me what happens.
PlayoffsPlease Posted July 15, 2019 Posted July 15, 2019 This is an interesting question. My first reaction is that it is certainly Belichick, because it is certainly easy to imagine him having the same level of success with Aaron Rodgers, Peyton Manning, Big Ben, or Drew Brees as QB. Maybe even with Philip Rivers. It would appear that Brady is the less rare element. On the other hand, Brady is the only QB who over the last decade who was willing to play for far below market value which has been a huge competitive advantage for the Patriots. I don't know how much a perennial $10-12 million salary cap advantage is worth to a team. The other factor that could very well be considered a third poll answer is. Playing in the leagues worst division being practically spotted 6 games per year. I don't think the dynasty would have happened in any other division.
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted July 15, 2019 Posted July 15, 2019 Belicheat bends the rules to get any advantage and Tainted Tom often does just enough to win.
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted July 15, 2019 Posted July 15, 2019 14 minutes ago, Cripple Creek said: Your logic and that of 71% of the respondents is flawed. Belichick is a great coach. Brady is a great QB. You don't get great coaches WITHOUT great QBs & you don't get dynasties without them either. The question asked is who is more responsible for the dynasty. The answer is obvious, Brady. Without him the pats are just another team with an eccentric HC. With him they are a dynasty. Toss in the fact that he has never held their feet to the fire monetarily and that he has publicly put up with 99% of Bill's crap and you have the NE dynasty. Put Rogers in that situation and tell me what happens. not to put a hole in your balloon but .... Belicheat still manages to win w/o Brady. Backup quarterback Matt Cassel replaced Brady. Cassel's led the team to a win in Week 2 against the New York Jets, his first start since high school. Despite finishing the regular season with an 11–5 record, the Patriots did not qualify for the playoffs—becoming the first 11-win team since the expansion to a 12-team playoff in 1990 to not make the playoffs, Meh freaking Cassel!! And lets not forget the legends of James Garoppolo and Jacoby Brisset
Matt_In_NH Posted July 15, 2019 Posted July 15, 2019 If I had to pick one it would be Belicheck but without both they dont have all these SB's. It's the unlikely combination of best coach/best QB and longevity.
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