Thurman#1 Posted July 16, 2019 Posted July 16, 2019 (edited) 5 hours ago, Gugny said: Montana, Elway, Unitas, Favre and Rodgers combined to win 9 Super Bowls. Rodgers being the only one who won in "today's" NFL. Brady is the GOAT (in my opinion). But the fact that guys like Rodgers (1), Roethlisberger (2), Stafford (look at his stats before you say he doesn't belong in the conversation; he does) (0) and Rivers (0) have NOT been part of dynasties solidifies the fact that Bill Belichick is, between him and Brady, the most responsible for the Patriots* dynasty. That's not fair lumping Unitas in there. Most of his career was pre-Super Bowl era and the part that wasn't was not the old, uninjured Johnny U. I don't think it's all that clear that Brady's the GOAT. But certainly one of all-time greatest few. Top two or three, and very possibly one. How did Belichick do without Brady? No franchise QB in Cleveland, and in his first year, playing with Bledsoe, they went 5-11. The next year, with mostly Brady, 11-5 and a title. Then you look at the year Brady was injured and they went a good-at-first-glance 11-5 against a stunningly easy schedule, in a year when the AFC East had such an easy schedule that the Fins went 11-5 as well. The difference between those 2008 Fins and the 2008 Pats was that the year before the Fins went 1-15, while the Pats with Brady went 16-0. That would seem to indicate two fairly divergent types of team. What you refer to as a solidified fact, that Belichick is more responsible, is neither a fact nor particularly solid. I really look forward to seeing Belichick play without Brady. Very very soon, hopefully. I think the Pats will be a good team with Belichick, but having side-stepped disaster with Garoppolo, I don't think they'll be regular champions anymore. Belichick does have a lot more impact than most coaches, much more. Because he's not a coach. Or put more specifically, he's not just a coach. He's a very under-estimated GM. As a GM he's put consistently solid rosters on the field, built with consistently smarter methods than most GMs. But he's been able to build rosters around one of the greatest QBs of all time, and more, a QB who was willing to be paid less than he could have gotten. That's a huge advantage for a GM, and a coach as well. Edited July 16, 2019 by Thurman#1 1
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted July 16, 2019 Posted July 16, 2019 18 hours ago, Cripple Creek said: Ever hear of Bob Griese? Dungy would not be on the list without Manning. Vermeil would not be on the list without Warner. i won’t entertain somebody’s 20+ best. so, Gibbs is the one outlier out of 15. Greasy Who? LOL. Shula is one of the best there has been. If only Buffalo had not been in Marino's way.... (I had thought Marino a better passer than Kelly. The Marks brothers Mark Clayton and Mark Duper were quite a show to watch). Vermeil and Dungy needed THE right QB at THE right time to win. This is a split, good coaching and the luck to have THE QB in that short span. w/o THE QB what can they claim? One cries and the other one really will get more credit for not getting there than his one trip there. There are plenty of variables and no definitive answer other than both We (should) all know that it takes a combination of good coaching and good quarterbacking. 18 hours ago, Cripple Creek said: I’m happy to admit when I’m wrong. I’m just as happy to argue when people answer a flawed question incorrectly. And whilst (A&FM) we’re at it, please refute my points. LOL That attitude got me banned here by beerball.
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted July 16, 2019 Posted July 16, 2019 14 hours ago, Binghamton Beast said: Drew Bledsoe was 5-13 in his 18 games with Belichick. Brady came in and went 14-4. Drew Bledsoe was 8-8 in his first year in Buffalo. Hmmmmmmmm. And BB and Brady were 9-7 in 2002. A 1 game difference. Bledsoe also saved NE*'s ass when he won a playoff game when Tainted Tom had a knee boo boo
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted July 16, 2019 Posted July 16, 2019 14 hours ago, Cripple Creek said: If you believe that JP Losman, EJ Manual, Trent Edwards et al would thrive, allowing Belichick to be dynastic then you’re nuts. It’s the QB. Perhaps. What successful QBs have they drafted in that time? Honestly .... I think EJ Manual and Trent Edwards would have done much better under Bellyache than the idiot coaches that they had. IMO Trent Edwards got killed by a very bad O Line and he lost confidence in his game because he was afraid of getting mauled on most plays 2
Mike in Horseheads Posted July 16, 2019 Posted July 16, 2019 3 minutes ago, ShadyBillsFan said: Honestly .... I think EJ Manual and Trent Edwards would have done much better under Bellyache than the idiot coaches that they had. IMO Trent Edwards got killed by a very bad O Line and he lost confidence in his game because he was afraid of getting mauled on most plays I would agree with that. Whatever hope there was for EJ was destroyed by St Doug. 3
Beast Posted July 16, 2019 Posted July 16, 2019 30 minutes ago, ShadyBillsFan said: And BB and Brady were 9-7 in 2002. A 1 game difference. Bledsoe also saved NE*'s ass when he won a playoff game when Tainted Tom had a knee boo boo Tainted Tom is the best QB that ever lived.
teef Posted July 16, 2019 Posted July 16, 2019 i've always thought it was brady. not that it could have happened without bill, but brady always struck me as the driving force.
RoyBatty is alive Posted July 16, 2019 Posted July 16, 2019 33 minutes ago, ShadyBillsFan said: Honestly .... I think EJ Manual and Trent Edwards would have done much better under Bellyache than the idiot coaches that they had. IMO Trent Edwards got killed by a very bad O Line and he lost confidence in his game because he was afraid of getting mauled on most plays Look what the mighty Bills coaching staff did to JP Losman, he actually had a good full second year but each progressive he he got worse and worse
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted July 16, 2019 Posted July 16, 2019 23 minutes ago, Binghamton Beast said: Tainted Tom is the best QB that ever lived. And his record shall forever be TAINTED Both in reality SpyGate TuckGate KneeGate IllegalElligibleReceiverFormationGate DestroyedPhoneGate aka DeflateGate TimeKeeperErrorGate LossOfCommunicationGearGate PhantomRTPGate
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted July 16, 2019 Posted July 16, 2019 21 minutes ago, RoyBatty is alive said: Look what the mighty Bills coaching staff did to JP Losman, he actually had a good full second year but each progressive he he got worse and worse A Deer in Headlights was poor JP. All Arm not much else.
Saxum Posted July 16, 2019 Posted July 16, 2019 10 hours ago, ShadyBillsFan said: And his record shall forever be TAINTED Both in reality SpyGate TuckGate KneeGate IllegalElligibleReceiverFormationGate DestroyedPhoneGate aka DeflateGate TimeKeeperErrorGate LossOfCommunicationGearGate PhantomRTPGate Br*dy should always be associated with hemorrhoids and cheating like pregnant girl friend he dumped to get current one.
Elite Poster Posted July 17, 2019 Posted July 17, 2019 On 7/14/2019 at 11:46 AM, Bills2ref said: Belichick. His record with backup QBs speaks for itself. Are you referring to his .500 NFL record (same as Rex) pre-Brady? Going 11-5 with Matt Cassel who is a fine back up QB isn't impressive especially with the roster they had. Keep in mind Rex went to two straight AFC championship games with Sanchez. Belichick is a fantastic coach, but Brady bails him out more than the other way around. Boneheaded calls in game, boneheaded draft picks, boneheaded free agency moves, Brady covers that all up.
Orlando Buffalo Posted July 17, 2019 Posted July 17, 2019 On 7/14/2019 at 12:26 PM, Gugny said: Agree 100% with all of this. I'll also add that Belichick knows the NFL rules better than anyone on earth - and he uses that knowledge to his advantage. What most people call "cheating," is really just knowing the rules and using them to their benefit. i will disagree with you since the rule is put in with a clear purpose and BB has made them rewrite the rule book multiple times to deal with him. If you want to make technical arguments like in court of law then you are correct- but he breaks rules like the Raiders of the 70s but without the fun.
wagon127 Posted July 17, 2019 Posted July 17, 2019 I really don't care who is more responsible for the Patriots Dynasty. I am only interested in who will be responsible for it ending!
Gugny Posted July 17, 2019 Author Posted July 17, 2019 6 minutes ago, wagon127 said: I really don't care who is more responsible for the Patriots Dynasty. I am only interested in who will be responsible for it ending! The choices would be the same for that question, too, LOL! 2
oldmanfan Posted July 17, 2019 Posted July 17, 2019 They're both the best ever at their jobs. If you held a gun to my head and had to make me pick I'd say Belichick, since entire teams win championships and not just QBs. 1
Boatdrinks Posted July 18, 2019 Posted July 18, 2019 10 hours ago, wagon127 said: I really don't care who is more responsible for the Patriots Dynasty. I am only interested in who will be responsible for it ending! It’s Brady in both cases.
Billzgobowlin Posted July 18, 2019 Posted July 18, 2019 On 7/15/2019 at 11:42 AM, Gugny said: Name an all-time great Head Coach who didn't have an elite QB. Gibbs and Parcells are two that come to mind. Neither had a hall of fame QB. 1
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