Who's Most Responsible for Pats* Dynasty: Brady or Belichick?

[K-9]

6 minutes ago, Gugny said:

 

Agree 100% with all of this.

 

I'll also add that Belichick knows the NFL rules better than anyone on earth - and he uses that knowledge to his advantage.

 

What most people call "cheating," is really just knowing the rules and using them to their benefit.

That’s true and while I understand that what he does may not be a violation of the rules per se, he isn’t above violating the “spirit” of the rules when he gets a chance. Like a couple years ago when he bent them with his substations vs. Baltimore in the playoffs. I don’t respect that about him at all. 

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

6 minutes ago, Gugny said:

 

Agree 100% with all of this.

 

I'll also add that Belichick knows the NFL rules better than anyone on earth - and he uses that knowledge to his advantage.

 

What most people call "cheating," is really just knowing the rules and using them to their benefit.

 

 

....how many sports teams "push the envelope" in reality?......some get caught and many do not.....the era of hockey stick legal curvatures....MLB and the "Juiced Era".......George Brett and pine tar.....Gaylord Perry et al with the spitter.......the list goes on....Pats are the MOST hated because of their dynasty.......

[Ethan in Cleveland]

18 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

Belichick 

 

Brady never would have become Brady without Belichick.  

You have that backwards. Belichick was nothing before Brady. 

He is a great coach but Brady is the greatest QB of all time. He has turned smurfs into superstars. He will get Gronk into HOF. He has never had an elite RB. Only Moss was a superstar WR.

[Foxx]

1 hour ago, Gugny said:

Obviously, both BB and Brady are largely responsible for the dynasty.  

 

But who do you think is MOST responsible?

ahh, the age old question. the chicken or the egg.

[H2o]

I got Brady. How many SB wins do the Pats have without him as the starter?

[Ethan in Cleveland]

3 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

 

....how many sports teams "push the envelope" in reality?......some get caught and many do not.....the era of hockey stick legal curvatures....MLB and the "Juiced Era".......George Brett and pine tar.....Gaylord Perry et al with the spitter.......the list goes on....Pats are the MOST hated because of their dynasty.......

Taping signals and who the hell knows what else happens with the headsets in Foxborough are more than just pushing the envelope.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

Just now, Ethan in Portland said:

Taping signals and who the hell knows what else happens with the headsets in Foxborough are more than just pushing the envelope.

 

....a matter of one's opinion......we disagree but respecting yours is how this place is supposed to work.........

[Beast]

40 minutes ago, K-9 said:

Right? Right what? I'm not trying to make a point here one way or the other. You asked what Belichick's record was without Brady and I simply furnished the information you requested. You're welcome. 

 

I said right as in you are right.

 

Relax for Christ sake.

[Augie]

7 minutes ago, H2o said:

I got Brady. How many SB wins do the Pats have without him as the starter?

 

Which begs the question: how many SB’s do they have without BB as the HC? 

 

I get it, Brady is the GOAT, and so is his HC. Aren’t we just a bunch of lucky losers! Ugh......no wonder we all get crazy sometimes....

[dma0034]

Belichick is a good coach. Brady makes him great. 

[Gugny]

13 minutes ago, K-9 said:

That’s true and while I understand that what he does may not be a violation of the rules per se, he isn’t above violating the “spirit” of the rules when he gets a chance. Like a couple years ago when he bent them with his substations vs. Baltimore in the playoffs. I don’t respect that about him at all. 

 

12 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

 

....how many sports teams "push the envelope" in reality?......some get caught and many do not.....the era of hockey stick legal curvatures....MLB and the "Juiced Era".......George Brett and pine tar.....Gaylord Perry et al with the spitter.......the list goes on....Pats are the MOST hated because of their dynasty.......

 

BB will bend the rules until he gets caught.  Unfortunately, the Pats* have usually cashed in multiple times before getting called for it.

[machine gun kelly]

1 hour ago, Rocky Landing said:

How come Satan isn't one of the options?

 

Now that’s funny.  I swear we are watching the Evil Empire and should play the Darth Vader music when they enter the field.

[K-9]

15 minutes ago, Binghamton Beast said:

 

I said right as in you are right.

 

Relax for Christ sake.

Right.

[ghostwriter]

Belichick. He coached up Brady to what he is today. You have to give Brady credit for being coachable though. Bledsoe, Garrapolo, Cassel and others all looked good under Belichick, but I do concede that none of them would have been as successful as Brady. Brady is very good, but Belichick would have multiple rings without him, albeit nowhere near as many. 60% Belichick, 40% Brady. Brady wouldn't have been Brady on the Bills, the coaching just wasn't there.

[Marv's Neighbor]

  Me of course, they sold me their souls.

[drf1835]

58 minutes ago, JayBaller10 said:

Belichek isn’t throwing those clutch passes on the field. There’s only so much a coach can do, the players have to execute and he has arguably the greatest of all time at the most important position on the field. Some will point to Belichek’s 13-6 record without Brady and I’d say that sort of success wouldn’t be sustainable. I’d use his record as head coach prior to Brady taking the field to support my argument.

 

Agree. BB Wins 41 Lose 55, prior to Boy Wonder..If BB is a football wizard, he could have worked his magic when coaching the Browns those 5/6 years they failed under him there. And the 1st year he coached Patriots, he failed as a coach there. It isn’t coincidence that he started succeeding regularly when Tommy Boy became starter. This does not mean I think BB is a bad coach, but just not as great as everyone thinks. Yes, he has more control now with the Pats, than with the Browns, and thus perhaps better players for his system, but they say BB can get the most out of average Joes. Well, he as coach did not prior to Brady.

[Another Fan]

It’s interesting if you look at Bill’s head coaching record pre 2001 in those six years his win loss record is about the exact same as Rich Kotite’s six year head coaching run.  Jets fans will tell you Kotite was the worst coach ever.

 

I think Bill and Tom need each other, so I didn’t vote.  Without each other imo they are both just run of the mill coaches and players 

[LSHMEAB]

That 13-6 record without Brady is a case of blatant cherry picking.

 

His record without Brady in NE is 18-17. Why in the world is Belichick's first season exempt? When you factor in his time in Cleveland, he has a losing record without Brady.

[Dopey]

This is a tough one, but I voted Belichick. I will say Brady not taking the max money a QB can get helps BB fill out the roster as a deep team. This is why they are still strong by weeks 12-16. That is a strong advantage most teams don't have. A deep team nowadays usually has a QB on his 1st contract and can spend money elsewhere. Once they get paid (Brees, Russell Wilson, etc.), it's really hard to field such a deep team. Having said this, I voted BB because his teams have the ability to take advantage of the opposition's weakness. One week they will run the ball down the throat of a team that is weak against the run, the next week they throw for 450 yds and 4 tds against a weak secondary. Everyone wants to take advantage of the other team's weakness, doing it is another story. BB has proven to be able to do that.

[KD in CA]

56 minutes ago, H2o said:

I got Brady. How many SB wins do the Pats have without him as the starter?

 

Umm......the same number they have without BB as coach?

 

BB creates ridiculous game plans to shut down opponents even with average talent, offensive game plans that turns average guys into wildly productive WR/RBs, blocking schemes that protect his QB, etc.